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Serious move to ponder next year--J Craw to 6th man
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gunsnewing
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3/16/2005  12:10 PM
If its Finley for Kurt Thomas and a late draft pick or something then fine but I don't want to have to give up sweetney or our #1 pick for the guy and thats what they will want . He's old and very injury prone but I'd love to get him for Kurt Thomas. He would be a good stop gap guy as we wait and see if Crawford can bulk up and become smarter. Ariza is definitely a SF in my opinion once he bulks up. Whether he developes a decent jumpshot and becomes our starting SF or is a spark of the bench.
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TMS
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3/16/2005  12:15 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

If its Finley for Kurt Thomas and a late draft pick or something then fine but I don't want to have to give up sweetney or our #1 pick for the guy and thats what they will want . He's old and very injury prone but I'd love to get him for Kurt Thomas. He would be a good stop gap guy as we wait and see if Crawford can bulk up and become smarter. Ariza is definitely a SF in my opinion once he bulks up. Whether he developes a decent jumpshot and becomes our starting SF or is a spark of the bench.

impossible...you have to match up the dollars...it would have to be a Penny & the 2 1st rounders, or a TT & the lottery pick, to get Finley imho...unless you throw in JYD, Rose or Mo T along w/KT & a pick?

would you guys do KT, Mo T, Ariza & the lottery pick for Finley & Josh Howard?
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diderotn
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3/16/2005  12:26 PM
Are you guys nuts??? Finley is a good player, but we are not looking to invest on another Houston....Kurt, Sundov, and another player for Finley would make sense, but not any of our young players......Finley has a big contract and we are not trying to repeat the same mistakes that we have made in the past....isiah needs to keep our draft picks and draft a couple of mature impact players. A center and SF to be exact.....Forget about Finley if it is not for Kurt....




Posted by TMS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

If its Finley for Kurt Thomas and a late draft pick or something then fine but I don't want to have to give up sweetney or our #1 pick for the guy and thats what they will want . He's old and very injury prone but I'd love to get him for Kurt Thomas. He would be a good stop gap guy as we wait and see if Crawford can bulk up and become smarter. Ariza is definitely a SF in my opinion once he bulks up. Whether he developes a decent jumpshot and becomes our starting SF or is a spark of the bench.

impossible...you have to match up the dollars...it would have to be a Penny & the 2 1st rounders, or a TT & the lottery pick, to get Finley imho...unless you throw in JYD, Rose or Mo T along w/KT & a pick?

would you guys do KT, Mo T, Ariza & the lottery pick for Finley & Josh Howard?
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TMS
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3/16/2005  12:34 PM
for me, the key to that deal is getting Josh Howard...i think he's going to be a star someday like Ron Artest is now...just my gut feeling on the kid...he's got talent.

Finley does pose a huge risk though due to his contract, so your concerns are legitimate...but if you're just giving up Mo T & KT who have longterm deals of their own, isn't it worth it to get the far better player in Finley? just something to consider.

Ariza & the lottery pick for Josh Howard i think is a fair proposition personally, & i LOVE Ariza too...i just think Howard has more star potential, & having TT come off the bench as your backup wouldn't be bad since he does still create matchup problems for other team's 2nd units, & you could use him as a PF on more occasions as well to go w/a quicker lineup at times.
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joec32033
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3/16/2005  12:37 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

If its Finley for Kurt Thomas and a late draft pick or something then fine but I don't want to have to give up sweetney or our #1 pick for the guy and thats what they will want . He's old and very injury prone but I'd love to get him for Kurt Thomas. He would be a good stop gap guy as we wait and see if Crawford can bulk up and become smarter. Ariza is definitely a SF in my opinion once he bulks up. Whether he developes a decent jumpshot and becomes our starting SF or is a spark of the bench.

impossible...you have to match up the dollars...it would have to be a Penny & the 2 1st rounders, or a TT & the lottery pick, to get Finley imho...unless you throw in JYD, Rose or Mo T along w/KT & a pick?

would you guys do KT, Mo T, Ariza & the lottery pick for Finley & Josh Howard?

I wouldn't do that trade, and there is no way I go after Finley...what happened to building a team for the future that is on this board so much?!? I make a HUGE play for Hughes, I mean I may even offer Sweetney considering there are alot of Athletic PF's in this draft (I would LOVE to get Simien!!) Keeping Craw would be nice but with that talent in this draft, I don't think it should be a requirement.
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TMS
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3/16/2005  12:43 PM
sure Hughes would be nice, but what makes you think WAS is looking to deal him in any sign & trade?

i'm just trying to be realistic...it's nice to think we can get all these young up & coming stars, but sometimes you have to take on bad contracts like Finley to get a shot at a guy like a Josh Howard, or a Larry Hughes, etc.
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diderotn
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3/16/2005  12:45 PM
I personally want Hughes instead of Crawf...He has good IQ and is serviceable...He learned well from Jordan during the days when he was in D.C. Crawf is just street talent that needs to be playing with the And1 team..Hughes is definitely what Marburry needs in the back court with him, but I am very sure that Washington will do their utmost to retain him....
I wouldn't do that trade, and there is no way I go after Finley...what happened to building a team for the future that is on this board so much?!? I make a HUGE play for Hughes, I mean I may even offer Sweetney considering there are alot of Athletic PF's in this draft (I would LOVE to get Simien!!) Keeping Craw would be nice but with that talent in this draft, I don't think it should be a requirement.
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gunsnewing
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3/16/2005  12:50 PM
I'm sorry but Howard is better than Ariza. We dont know if Ariza will ever develop a consistant jumpshot and become a lockdown defender.

Howard is a lockdown defender and a very smart all around player.

The trade TMS suggested would be a steal we would also get Finley to solidify the SG position.

getting Finley KT, Taylor, Ariza is better than trading for Webber who makes more and has a longer contract. And like TMS said Finley's contract is no longer than KT/Taylor's and he's a much better player!

We would still be in good shape with every bad contract on the team expiring by 2008. Question is would Dallas do this trade? Maybe if we take back Wahad and throw in a pick and another overpaid vet who isn't as overpaid as Wahad.
joec32033
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3/16/2005  1:06 PM
Posted by TMS:

sure Hughes would be nice, but what makes you think WAS is looking to deal him in any sign & trade?

i'm just trying to be realistic...it's nice to think we can get all these young up & coming stars, but sometimes you have to take on bad contracts like Finley to get a shot at a guy like a Josh Howard, or a Larry Hughes, etc.

You are giving up SO much...Ariza AND the draft pick?!? No way, I don't see it. You want a trade I would do...KT, Mo, the pick and Ariza for Stackhouse, Daniels, Howard. I don't like giving up so much youth and at least one trade commodity for so little in return. We are actually getting older with this trade.
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Bonn1997
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3/16/2005  1:12 PM
I never heard anyone call Bobby Jackson a good defender before
TMS
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3/16/2005  1:20 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by TMS:

sure Hughes would be nice, but what makes you think WAS is looking to deal him in any sign & trade?

i'm just trying to be realistic...it's nice to think we can get all these young up & coming stars, but sometimes you have to take on bad contracts like Finley to get a shot at a guy like a Josh Howard, or a Larry Hughes, etc.

You are giving up SO much...Ariza AND the draft pick?!? No way, I don't see it. You want a trade I would do...KT, Mo, the pick and Ariza for Stackhouse, Daniels, Howard. I don't like giving up so much youth and at least one trade commodity for so little in return. We are actually getting older with this trade.

who knows what you're going to get from Ariza at this point? it's not as if Josh Howard is an aging veteran...he's just about to reach his prime years...i actually think it's DAL that's getting fleeced in that deal if anything, but i put it out there since i think they'll be looking to unload Finley's contract in the offseason.
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joec32033
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3/16/2005  1:34 PM
So you are getting Howard for Ariza and what can amount to Taft, Graham, Simien, or Petro....that makes no sense to me at all....Howard is not that much better than Ariza...you are trading for Howard for the same reason you are trading away Ariza...you are saying that Ariza isn't done devfeloping yet and it will take him a couple years to get there...but you are saying you want Howard because he can develop into Ron Artest light...
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TMS
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3/16/2005  1:39 PM
no, i said i think Josh is just about to reach a level where we can consider him for allstar status...Ariza on the other hand will probably take at least another 4 years before we begin to talk about him as an allstar imho...

& if there was a way we could get a Chris Taft there's no way i make this deal...i'm going under the assumption that the pick will be around #8-#10...i'd take Josh Howard over any other player in that range in this year's draft, i'll tell you that much.
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joec32033
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3/16/2005  1:41 PM
Posted by TMS:

no, i said i think Josh is just about to reach a level where we can consider him for allstar status...Ariza on the other hand will probably take at least another 4 years before we begin to talk about him as an allstar imho...

& if there was a way we could get a Chris Taft there's no way i make this deal...i'm going under the assumption that the pick will be around #8-#10...i'd take Josh Howard over any other player in that range in this year's draft, i'll tell you that much.

So you would take Josh Howard over Ariza and a late lotto pick? I still think that is too much especially since we have a comparable player that just hasn't reached his potential yet, which is the same thing that Howard hasn't done...
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Bonn1997
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3/16/2005  1:44 PM
Posted by joec32033:
Posted by TMS:

no, i said i think Josh is just about to reach a level where we can consider him for allstar status...Ariza on the other hand will probably take at least another 4 years before we begin to talk about him as an allstar imho...

& if there was a way we could get a Chris Taft there's no way i make this deal...i'm going under the assumption that the pick will be around #8-#10...i'd take Josh Howard over any other player in that range in this year's draft, i'll tell you that much.

So you would take Josh Howard over Ariza and a late lotto pick? I still think that is too much especially since we have a comparable player that just hasn't reached his potential yet, which is the same thing that Howard hasn't done...
I agree; I'd much rather have Ariza and the lottery pick.
TMS
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3/16/2005  1:45 PM
So you would take Josh Howard over Ariza and a late lotto pick? I still think that is too much especially since we have a comparable player that just hasn't reached his potential yet, which is the same thing that Howard hasn't done...

absolutely i would bro...like i said, Ariza's got talent but i just don't know if he'll grow into the star calibre player that i think Josh Howard is just about to become...i don't see Ariza as comparable to Howard right now...maybe he will in a couple years, but who knows? i take the more certain commodity everytime unless we're talking about superstar potential talent like a Lebron when he was in HS.
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joec32033
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3/16/2005  1:49 PM
Posted by TMS:
So you would take Josh Howard over Ariza and a late lotto pick? I still think that is too much especially since we have a comparable player that just hasn't reached his potential yet, which is the same thing that Howard hasn't done...

absolutely i would bro...like i said, Ariza's got talent but i just don't know if he'll grow into the star calibre player that i think Josh Howard is just about to become...i don't see Ariza as comparable to Howard right now...maybe he will in a couple years, but who knows? i take the more certain commodity everytime unless we're talking about superstar potential talent like a Lebron when he was in HS.

TMS....I don't see either player as a proven commodity,IMO.
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TMS
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3/16/2005  1:55 PM
i didn't say he was already proven...but he's closer to reaching that level than Ariza is in my mind...that's my point...& i think he's a much better defender & better all around player as well...he's in his 2nd year in the league...if we had Howard on the Knicks right now & DAL had Ariza would you rather have the 19 year old & a late lottery pick?

[Edited by - TMS on 03/16/2005 13:55:19]
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joec32033
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3/16/2005  1:58 PM
I'd rather have Ariza and the pick......
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gunsnewing
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3/16/2005  2:00 PM
Posted by joec32033:

So you are getting Howard for Ariza and what can amount to Taft, Graham, Simien, or Petro....that makes no sense to me at all....Howard is not that much better than Ariza...you are trading for Howard for the same reason you are trading away Ariza...you are saying that Ariza isn't done devfeloping yet and it will take him a couple years to get there...but you are saying you want Howard because he can develop into Ron Artest light...

if we have to give up our #1 pick then I wouldn't do this trade but if we absolutely have to give up a pick I would offer the 29th pick and if they insist on something better I'd offer a future lottery protected pick or the 29th pick with KT/Taylor/Ariza for Finley/Howard/Wahad etc

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/16/2005 14:03:03]
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