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why is this team making a playoff push?
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franco12
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3/14/2005  10:28 AM
I look at Mo Taylor and Penny playing over Ariza and Sweets as Isiah wanting to re-establish value for them.

If Isiah is going to trade KT or Sweets, I think he has to be pretty confident of what Mo can bring.

If Penny's ending contract is going to be traded, its going to help if a team can think that he is going to be more than just ending contract, that he could help a team rebuild or whatever.

But, I'm not sure if this is the case (above), or if its more of the same that we've seen from MSG- pay vets, let rookies go unplayed, undeveloped.
AUTOADVERT
Bippity10
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3/14/2005  5:01 PM
Another thing to take into account is that Herb Williams is coaching for his career as a coach. How he finishes will determine whether he gets a job with the Knicks or somewhere else. If he makes it to the playoffs he will definitely be considered for openings in the next two years. This is his livelihood he is coaching for. If you were in that situation would you put your faith in rookies and 2nd year players or would you coach the vets and hope for the best.

The only way for us to be in a situation where we can have a coach that is willing to play the young guys is when we bring in a guy that has no worries about being fired. We need coaching stability. It is imperative for our situation. Until then you will not see young guys get significant minutes. In New York our lack of patience is our own worst enemy. We reap what we sow. Isiah needs to recognize this and hire a coach with a plan and stick with that plan.
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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3/14/2005  5:09 PM
on that note, if Isiah himself were to take over as head coach, i think Knick fans would be willing to be patient for another couple years & allow him to develop the young guys he brings in...no one's firing Isiah anytime soon w/his 7 year contract in place.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
gunsnewing
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3/14/2005  5:21 PM
Posted by TMS:

on that note, if Isiah himself were to take over as head coach, i think Knick fans would be willing to be patient for another couple years & allow him to develop the young guys he brings in...no one's firing Isiah anytime soon w/his 7 year contract in place.

good idea then the better players will play for sure. because he realizes that the only value guys like penny & taylor have is their expiring contracts therefore they will play very few minutes while sweetney and ariza get tons of minutes!
NewYorkSoul
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3/14/2005  11:25 PM
As someone said here before, I'd rather have a team that plays hard and establishes a winning mentality going into the next season. There are no saviours in this year's draft... there's plenty of talent available, from 1-14 and many options out there for Isiah. Now I'm not condoning the team's strategy, but what else is Herb going to do? He's fighting for his job here, and players are playing for their next contract as well (TT, Penny).
David f'n Lee for President!!
daddynel
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3/14/2005  11:59 PM
damn, talk about a gray area. as much as i want to tank the season, i find myself rooting my azz off when i watch a game.
how about this outlook guys... how would it look in terms of competitiveness to just send in our youngin's in a loosing cause every night? "go ahead in guys. were gonna lose any way. but it's o.k. we should get a good draft pick out of it."
BRIGGS
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3/15/2005  12:39 AM
Posted by daddynel:

damn, talk about a gray area. as much as i want to tank the season, i find myself rooting my azz off when i watch a game.
how about this outlook guys... how would it look in terms of competitiveness to just send in our youngin's in a loosing cause every night? "go ahead in guys. were gonna lose any way. but it's o.k. we should get a good draft pick out of it."

the one thing i *hope* that we do, is IF we happen to drop something like 6-7 games out of an 8 seed with 15 to go, that we specifically give more time to Ariza, Sweetney and even bring Butler off the IR to get some run, even if its 5-8 minutes.

also, i still do see a problem with having just so many PF. no doubt that Mo Taylor looked good in 1-2 games, and malik has played pretty well, but I still seriously question why we didnt wait and re-evaluate the Taylor gig until after the season. One thing we have to remember, we have MORE 30 year olds on our roster than any other team.
I really believe that we need to have a draft similar to what New Jersey, GS and chicago had in the last few years where you bring 3-4 HOPEFULLY well-executed draft picks to bring hungry young legs and to restock the pipeline so this doesnt happen again. if all of a sudden we are going after the ray allens and the michael finley's, we may be good for a year or 2 and then we could implode to heck.

RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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3/15/2005  10:17 AM
Posted by daddynel:

damn, talk about a gray area. as much as i want to tank the season, i find myself rooting my azz off when i watch a game.
how about this outlook guys... how would it look in terms of competitiveness to just send in our youngin's in a loosing cause every night? "go ahead in guys. were gonna lose any way. but it's o.k. we should get a good draft pick out of it."

i don't think winning now carries over to next season. many teams win one year, then for some reason, stink the next. the opposite also holds true. what i do think carries over is individual player development. we have 3 players that are developing - everybody else on the roster has been in the league for 7+ seasons. crawford is getting his minutes and has come a long way. but ariza and sweetney are not thus hindering their development.

secondly, do we lose that much if we keep sweets out there 35 mins (even with 4 or 5 fouls) than 5-10 mins of mo taylor? so i don't agree with the playing the rookies and tanking philosophy. sweetney is definitely not a step down from what we have. ariza does have a long way to go but he needs at least 15 mins b/c he plays defense, something no other guard/sf does.

sweets, jyd, malik, mo - 4 PF's
kurt - C that's really a PF

so 5 PF's - and i think at least one will be gone. my fear is that it's sweetney.
djsunyc
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3/15/2005  10:48 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

the one thing i *hope* that we do, is IF we happen to drop something like 6-7 games out of an 8 seed with 15 to go, that we specifically give more time to Ariza, Sweetney and even bring Butler off the IR to get some run, even if its 5-8 minutes.

it crazy man. this is what we said they should do AFTER the trade deadline. but no, let's go get mo taylor and incorporate him into the rotation b/c you know, he is the future of this franchise. and let's bring back a whining penny from memphis and give him 20 mins a night b/c you know, he's a veteran leader that's played in an nba finals...TEN YEARS AGO!!!!

now we're HOPING the young'n's get burn for the last 15 games. when will this franchise learn from it's past mistakes?
Bippity10
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3/16/2005  1:26 PM
Again, Herb Williams doesn't care about the Knicks future he cares about his future. He wants to win as many games as humanly possible to preserve his career. In that situation as a coach if you have a vet(where you know what to expect) and a solid rookie(that can be great one night, and worthless the next), you are going with the vet. You don't care about his future because by the time his future becomes the present you will be fired. This is the price we pay for not giving stability to our coach's. They are not going to coach for any reason other than their own job security. We all want to see the rookies but this to me is obvious. When we hire a coach that knows he is part of a 2, 3, 4, 5 year plan you will see him coach as if he has a 2,3,4 or 5 year plan. But Herb has a 20 game plan right now, and he is going to coach that way. We as fans should not be angry at Herb for not playing the young guys, we should be angry with this corporate atmosphere that refuses to understand that winning a championship is a building process and not somethign that can be bought.
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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3/16/2005  1:34 PM
Bip is 100% right here...i think the only way to see the young guys get consistent burn is if Isiah takes over himself.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
gunsnewing
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3/16/2005  1:38 PM
Posted by TMS:

Bip is 100% right here...i think the only way to see the young guys get consistent burn is if Isiah takes over himself.

I agree since he doesn't have to worry about his job since he has a 7yr deal...I would've loved having Isiah coach to bridge the gap for Phil Jackson. But I still think he gave Herb the job to bridge the Phil gap and because coaching and GM in New york would be too much for one person.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/16/2005 13:40:24]
Bonn1997
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3/16/2005  1:41 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:

Bip is 100% right here...i think the only way to see the young guys get consistent burn is if Isiah takes over himself.

I agree since he doesn't have to worry about his job since he has a 7yr deal...I would've loved having Isiah coach to bridge the gap for Phil Jackson. But I still think he gave Herb the job to bridge the Phil gap and because coaching and GM in New york would be too much for one person.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/16/2005 13:40:24]
Who has a 7 year deal? I thought Isiah had a 3 year, $7 mil deal
Bippity10
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3/16/2005  1:48 PM
I like Herb as a coach. But it just seems the only answers for us are IT, Phil Jackson or Larry Brown. I like some of these other guys out there but I just don't think they will have the clout to change the atmosphere here. I think Herb would do a solid job but he would always be coaching while looking over his shoulder(even though in a rebuilding situation a guy like Herb may be ideal). This would effect all of his game time decisions. Same for guys like McMillan and even Flip. I just think with the situation we are currently in, we need someone with power. Just not sure where that is coming from other than one of those three guys. I'm just sick and tired of the coach's being fall guys for management's mistakes. Zeke needs to get on the bench, hire Jackson or express his 5 year plan that includes such and such a coach for the next 5 years. It's time to have some stability.
I just hope that people will like me
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