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Bogut on TV tonight at 9PM vs NM and Granger on ESPN2
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teslawlo
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3/12/2005  11:22 PM
bogut and granger are both VERY impressive. granger's shot is great and bogut can help a team out just by being on the court
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Kwazimodal
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3/12/2005  11:27 PM
Posted by OldFan:

Just saw most of the first 1/2 and it's the first time I've seen Bogut. He seems to have good court sense, nice feet moves under control but...

- He seems to get pushed around pretty easily.

- He's almost too under control - not aggresive.

My first impression is he's going to get muscled in the pros. Is he strong enough to be a five?

Most of you guys watch a lot more CBB and probably have a lot better handle on it - so I'd appreciate some feedback.


Have to say Im surprised.He is nothing like I expected.I saw the highlights and I expected him to be more agressive.I agree that he was pushed out of the blocks easily.Maybe he is trying to stay out of foul trouble.Its only one game so the jury is still out as far as Im concerned.
VDesai
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3/12/2005  11:36 PM
Granger is playing great ball right now. As far as I'm concerned he's moved into the mid first round. Bogut is a little off tonight but he's still dominant on the boards. He's a great passer.
OldFan
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3/12/2005  11:39 PM
Posted by Kwazimodal:
Posted by OldFan:

Just saw most of the first 1/2 and it's the first time I've seen Bogut. He seems to have good court sense, nice feet moves under control but...

- He seems to get pushed around pretty easily.

- He's almost too under control - not aggresive.

My first impression is he's going to get muscled in the pros. Is he strong enough to be a five?

Most of you guys watch a lot more CBB and probably have a lot better handle on it - so I'd appreciate some feedback.


Have to say Im surprised.He is nothing like I expected.I saw the highlights and I expected him to be more agressive.I agree that he was pushed out of the blocks easily.Maybe he is trying to stay out of foul trouble.Its only one game so the jury is still out as far as Im concerned.

Yep - I agree the jury is still out. It may be like that great movie that you keep hearing 'bout that ends up being good but less then the hype so it's disappointing.
VDesai
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3/12/2005  11:57 PM
Danny Granger is the man.
VDesai
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3/12/2005  11:59 PM
Bogut just stepped out and hit a 3 to keep Utah in the game!
Rich
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3/13/2005  12:02 AM
NM by four with 19.4 seconds.
VDesai
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3/13/2005  12:08 AM
Granger closes it out at the line and comes up with a spectacular effort in one of the biggest games in his career. New Mexico is now in the NCAA tourney...
BRIGGS
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3/13/2005  12:46 AM
Posted by VDesai:

Granger closes it out at the line and comes up with a spectacular effort in one of the biggest games in his career. New Mexico is now in the NCAA tourney...

he's a good player, i said it on another thread I think he's a top ten talent. he's got tremenous size at the three and can rebound, handle and shoot it.

Bogut wasnt as good as the last couple of times I saw him[although he did have 19-15] When Bogut is able to fill out[he just turned 20] and is something like 7-1 260, he's going to be very hard to deal with because of his size footwork hands and wingspan. We don't understand this now, but if he wa standing next to almost any Knick other than sundov, he would tower over them, but unlike a guy like sundov, this is a skill player who is really, really good around the basket. thats why he is a no-brainer number 1 pick. Putting on 10-15 pounds at that size with a pro trainer is cake. Lets see who wil be bale to guard him 1-1. Its not like in CBB, when you can guard a player with 2 people and then converge every time he gets the ball. It makes the target hard to reach, you literally have to throw the ball to him through 2-3 guys. In the NBA, if you commit two guys to a player every single time, thats trouble.
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gunsnewing
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3/13/2005  2:32 AM
this was definitely one of Boguts worst games yet he still got 19 & 15
JUNKMEIN
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3/13/2005  6:45 AM
Granger looked like he is going to explode as loudly as Bogut when he goes pro. His moves, athleticism and dare I say it, jumper reminds me loosely of McGrady. He's bigger than I thought also. Bogut is definitely a no-brainer. By mid season he'll be a force in the NBA. Briggs, you're right that these kids will excell at the pro game because when the lane opens up it's gonna be on.
OldFan
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3/13/2005  9:53 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by VDesai:

Granger closes it out at the line and comes up with a spectacular effort in one of the biggest games in his career. New Mexico is now in the NCAA tourney...

he's a good player, i said it on another thread I think he's a top ten talent. he's got tremenous size at the three and can rebound, handle and shoot it.

Bogut wasnt as good as the last couple of times I saw him[although he did have 19-15] When Bogut is able to fill out[he just turned 20] and is something like 7-1 260, he's going to be very hard to deal with because of his size footwork hands and wingspan. We don't understand this now, but if he wa standing next to almost any Knick other than sundov, he would tower over them, but unlike a guy like sundov, this is a skill player who is really, really good around the basket. thats why he is a no-brainer number 1 pick. Putting on 10-15 pounds at that size with a pro trainer is cake. Lets see who wil be bale to guard him 1-1. Its not like in CBB, when you can guard a player with 2 people and then converge every time he gets the ball. It makes the target hard to reach, you literally have to throw the ball to him through 2-3 guys. In the NBA, if you commit two guys to a player every single time, thats trouble.

Briggs - You certainly follow much closer then I do but, on very limited data, I don't think Bogut is a shoo-in to be a star in the NBA. 10 or 15 lbs will make a huge difference but is that gonna make him strong enough to deal with NBA players - there is a huge gap in strength from the CBB to the NBA. It's hard to predict how a player will mature physically.

I like his court sense. He moves well but not exceptionally well - not as well as a Duncan, Dirk or Garnett. Is he normally more aggressive? I know they were tripling him all night - but I didn't think he was fighting that hard to get the ball.

My first impression is he has potential but I don't see him coming into the league and immediately making his mark.
EnySpree
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3/13/2005  10:44 AM
To me it looked like Bogut was pacing himself. I think he already knew that they were in the tourney and he just played within the game. He is definately a cold as ice player. When he sank that 3pter he did it without hesitation and celebration(geez I miss Clyde). That showed me he is a different type of player. I think he definately is a #1 candidate.

Granger on the other hand didn't impress me. Yeah he was scoring and bounding but I don't think that will translate into NBA sucsess. His handle sucks and he is not that explosive on the drive. He plays kinda robotic. That's my opinion.
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BRIGGS
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3/13/2005  10:54 AM
I really like Bogut, I think you will be shocked when he gets 1-1 coverage in the nBA. this guy will be a 25-27 point 12-13 rebound C for a long time. Id bet my britches that in year 1 he will average 19-20 points 11-12 rebounds. He's a franchise talent, a super talent. The league they play is highly under-rated, there are some really good players. I mean if you look at some of the mocks, they have Granger going in the 2nd round. I mean I have seen all of the SFs in CBB and I really like Joey Graham, but Granger is the best true SF I have seen this year. he can handle rebound post shoot play D, heck he looks like Scottie Pippen. Both guys in that game were lottery picks. the C is the number 1 pick hands down, there is no close second, quite frankly because the odds of getting a young C of his caliber anytime soon is probably zero. and we arent talking 6-9 1/2 in shoes, we are talking 7-0 in bare feet.
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gunsnewing
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3/13/2005  12:28 PM
wow I don't know putting up those kinda numbers in the NBA. Even duncan/shaq don't put up those numbers. But I think at the very least Bogut will be ranked right up there with Yao, Z, Gasol. I think he can go for 15 & 10 in his rookie year. He's too agressive not too especially in the NBA where good centers are unstoppable. Most nba centers are stiffs who can't move around, Bogut will already be ahead of the game because of the way he moves and his savyness. He's not superquick but he incredibly smart on the court like Duncanand he scores, rebounds and blocks shots like crazy just like Duncan. if Duncan is capable of a 30pts 13rebs & 3blks season then Bogut can definitely put up 23/12/3 in his best season. IMO he is a franchise player because he is a Center and he's good.
diderotn
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3/13/2005  4:31 PM
Yeah, I like him too, but there is no way in hell that Isiah will endup with the top three picks.....Let's focus on another player...
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gunsnewing
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3/13/2005  4:53 PM
Posted by diderotn:

Yeah, I like him too, but there is no way in hell that Isiah will endup with the top three picks.....Let's focus on another player...

whats wrong with being a fan of Bogut no matter what team he is on? No one here is saying he can still be a Knick.

watch Utah get him the same way cleveland got Lebron
OldFan
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3/13/2005  9:44 PM
Ok - I think probably everybody on this board watches more CBB ball then I do and probably knows more about it. But I think Bogut is being over-rated. He apparently is a smart player but I don't think he is smart enough to make up for the fact that he will not be a superior physical talent in the NBA. Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Dirk are all smart and better athletes - he won't be in their class.

Briggs - you're a great poster and you know your hoops but I'll be amazed if he ever has one year in the range of what you claim he can do for a long-time (25-27 pts 12-13 rebounds)

Guns - Sorry - but I don't think if he comes out this year he'll average 15-10 his rookie year either.

More importantly I don't think he'll ever be a dominant defensive player. He has length but he won't be strong enough, quick enough, or have enough hops to be a great defensive player in the NBA. He's not even an intimidating shot blocker in college.

He may develop into a good NBA player but he won't be one of the top 4s or 5s (There are so few talented bigs playing center, you can be a "top" center and still not be a dominant player in the league)

I respect your opinions but in the interest of debate - I disagree - please feel free to point out my mistake should Bogut prove me wrong in the future.



[Edited by - oldfan on 03/13/2005 21:45:57]
gunsnewing
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3/13/2005  9:50 PM
Posted by OldFan:

Ok - I think probably everybody on this board watches more CBB ball then I do and probably knows more about it. But I think Bogut is being over-rated. He apparently is a smart player but I don't think he is smart enough to make up for the fact that he will not be a superior physical talent in the NBA. Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Dirk are all smart and better athletes - he won't be in their class.

Briggs - you're a great poster and you know your hoops but I'll be amazed if he ever has one year in the range of what you claim he can do for a long-time (25-27 pts 12-13 rebounds)

Guns - Sorry - but I don't think if he comes out this year he'll average 15-10 his rookie year either.

More importantly I don't think he'll ever be a dominant defensive player. He has length but he won't be strong enough, quick enough, or have enough hops to be a great defensive player in the NBA. He's not even an intimidating shot blocker in college.

He may develop into a good NBA player but he won't be one of the top 4s or 5s (There are so few talented bigs playing center, you can be a "top" center and still not be a dominant player in the league)

I respect your opinions but in the interest of debate - I disagree - please feel free to point out my mistake should Bogut prove me wrong in the future.



[Edited by - oldfan on 03/13/2005 21:45:57]

you just said you dont follow CBB so how can you say all that about Bogut. He has tons of games where he puts up 25pts/15reb & 5blocks. He always has a lot of block shots...he goes after every single one of them! He's so aggressive offensively and defensively!
MaTT4281
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3/13/2005  10:02 PM
Posted by OldFan:

Ok - I think probably everybody on this board watches more CBB ball then I do and probably knows more about it. But I think Bogut is being over-rated. He apparently is a smart player but I don't think he is smart enough to make up for the fact that he will not be a superior physical talent in the NBA. Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Dirk are all smart and better athletes - he won't be in their class.

Briggs - you're a great poster and you know your hoops but I'll be amazed if he ever has one year in the range of what you claim he can do for a long-time (25-27 pts 12-13 rebounds)

Guns - Sorry - but I don't think if he comes out this year he'll average 15-10 his rookie year either.

More importantly I don't think he'll ever be a dominant defensive player. He has length but he won't be strong enough, quick enough, or have enough hops to be a great defensive player in the NBA. He's not even an intimidating shot blocker in college.

He may develop into a good NBA player but he won't be one of the top 4s or 5s (There are so few talented bigs playing center, you can be a "top" center and still not be a dominant player in the league)

I respect your opinions but in the interest of debate - I disagree - please feel free to point out my mistake should Bogut prove me wrong in the future.

Let's hope the 10+ teams picking before us share the same logic.
Bogut on TV tonight at 9PM vs NM and Granger on ESPN2

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