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is boozer available for the expiring contracts?
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NYKBocker
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3/2/2005  9:59 AM
We already have a shorter Boozer in our team. His name is Malik Rose. I like Boozer but I am happy with our 4 right now. We need to deal one of our PF's for a center.
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djsunyc
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3/2/2005  10:34 AM
Posted by fishmike:

I liked him but we have ZERO need and his D sucks. I watched him away from the ball a lot when I was at the Utah game and he's too average.

PF has obviously been a big issue but with Herb starting MS and rotating in guys that give you great hustle and have good size we are fine there.

We should be looking at a good center prospect and at replacing TT and Penny in this draft. I really like Joey Graham at SF a lot. I would also look at a deal where we send TT + cash + the Spurs picks to GS for Foyal and Pietrus. Foyal is a great guy, and a good shot blocker. Not skilled but a BIG body that clogs the middle and can alter shots. Pietrus is a chisled G/F that is a GREAT defender, decent scorer and superior athlete on this level.

Then you go into next year with a balanced roster with no holes and great depth.

all signs seem to point at isiah drafting a combo guard with the lottery pick. pietrus is good but foyal is under contract til 2010. that's a long time. he's a solid player but if we get a player like diaz (who briggs loves), then we can pass on pietrus and hope ariza develops. mullin likes pietrus so i'm not sure he's going to trade him, i think he's more inclined in letting dunleavy go.

you're all right, there is now ZERO need for boozer. i was throwing names out there. i don't think we'll be able to get a center prospect for tim/penny's expiring deals. i think isiah may have found one in europe and is thinking about taking him with that late 1st rounder. there's probably A TON of 18 year old euro's that will be declaring.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03/02/2005 10:40:57]
Pharzeone
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3/2/2005  11:34 AM
[/quote]

all signs seem to point at isiah drafting a combo guard with the lottery pick. pietrus is good but foyal is under contract til 2010. that's a long time. he's a solid player but if we get a player like diaz (who briggs loves), then we can pass on pietrus and hope ariza develops. mullin likes pietrus so i'm not sure he's going to trade him, i think he's more inclined in letting dunleavy go.

you're all right, there is now ZERO need for boozer. i was throwing names out there. i don't think we'll be able to get a center prospect for tim/penny's expiring deals. i think isiah may have found one in europe and is thinking about taking him with that late 1st rounder. there's probably A TON of 18 year old euro's that will be declaring.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03/02/2005 10:40:57]
[/quote]
I disagree with that, I think he will acquire a combo-guard with an expiring contract. I think he will draft a raw center, I think it will be that French 7 footer, Petro. I wouldn't be surprise if he trades down for him. If the Knicks are in the lottery. If you believe Chad Ford (which I don't) but that is the guy that Zeke went to see in person in Europe. He does fit the Zeke mold too. Athletic young player. And I believe him when he thinks that KT plays better at the center spot.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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3/2/2005  6:51 PM
wow, a role player who averages 18 & 8? where do i sign up? if Sweetney were ever to put up those numbers even on a completely barren Knicks' roster you'd all be calling him the second coming of Elton Brand...oh wait, some of you already have, haven't you?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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3/2/2005  8:48 PM
Posted by TMS:

wow, a role player who averages 18 & 8? where do i sign up? if Sweetney were ever to put up those numbers even on a completely barren Knicks' roster you'd all be calling him the second coming of Elton Brand...oh wait, some of you already have, haven't you?
And he's putting up 18/9 with no backcourt players to make plays for him. I gotta think he'd get at least 1 maybe 2 more FGs a game with Marbury creating for him. Then you're looking at a 23 yr old putting up 21 and 9. The reason the Jazz are losing is that they're in the brutal west and have zero good backcourt players. Solace, I know you're into the 82games.com stats. Check out Boozer's stats. Most of his games are against western conference teams where all the good PFs are. Nevertheless, he's still outplaying his opponents.

As to the argument that PF is not one of our needs now that we have Malik and Mo Taylor, that makes no sense. These guys are mediocre role players. We could have 50 Mo Taylors and we'd still need an upgrade at PF. We need an upgrade at every position except starting PG. Maybe the package I mentioned earlier would be too much to give up for Boozer. I'd at least see if I could get a better package first. Boozer would be one of my targets this offseason, but definitely not my first target.
Allanfan20
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3/3/2005  1:33 AM
I don't consider Malik Rose, Kurt Thomas or Mike Sweetney to be mediocre. Kurt Thomas has had a rock solid season, and no matter how you look into these stats and how other PFs score against our PF, he's still a good solid defender. Sweetney will be fine in the future. I like Boozer, but we can't be using our "Assets" on him, when the team has more important needs like shotblocking, perimeter Defense and backup guards. Boozer will not improve the team very much. No need for him. Lets see how the draft goes first anyway.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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3/3/2005  6:21 AM
Sweetney has a lot to prove. We'll see what happens while he's starting. That obviously will affect who we should target this offseason. Mailik Rose is mediocre because you could easily list at least 25 PFs who are better than he is. Kurt's mediocre because he'd be a below average starting PF and has been the best frontcourt player on a lot of lottery teams. Boozer is far better than Kurt or Malik. He would be a huge upgrade over those two. We'll get a chance now to compare Sweetney as a starter to what Boozer did in his 2nd year (or is doing now) as a starter.
gunsnewing
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3/3/2005  7:38 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Sweetney has a lot to prove. We'll see what happens while he's starting. That obviously will affect who we should target this offseason. Mailik Rose is mediocre because you could easily list at least 25 PFs who are better than he is. Kurt's mediocre because he'd be a below average starting PF and has been the best frontcourt player on a lot of lottery teams. Boozer is far better than Kurt or Malik. He would be a huge upgrade over those two. We'll get a chance now to compare Sweetney as a starter to what Boozer did in his 2nd year (or is doing now) as a starter.

but our biggest weaknesses are at Center and the defense at SG!
Solace
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3/3/2005  7:43 AM
I already know Boozer's 82games stats. I believed them for a brief moment, then saw a few Utah games on tv. Boozer is a good role player, don't get me wrong, but he's no dominant force. Sorry, but his defense is bad. The fact that he has a higher PER than his opponent has to do with the fact that while Kirilenko out, the Jazz had NO scoring options and Boozer was by far their best rebounder. Any player who puts up 18 and 9 is going to have a better PER than their opponent. That doesn't make Boozer a star or better than Sweetney. The fact of the matter is, though, if you watch Boozer, his points are often on putbacks and shots within 5 feet. Sure, he hits those, but you expect your big man to get those. On offense, he's a glorified Charles Oakley. On defense, he's a glorified Tim Thomas. Sorry, but that's what I see from him. Both Boozer and Okur have been awful on defense. I like PER as much as the next guy, but net PER is flawed for one reason. It's weighed based on how much the opposing guy at the same position does vs. Boozer. Yet, Boozer's defensive lapses allow the opposing centers, PFs and SFs to score. When the opposing center scores, it goes against the Jazz center. When the opposing SF scores (with Kirilenko out of the linup), it goes against the Jazz SF. That's the point.

Sorry, but Boozer has a lot more problems on defense than just his Allan Houston-like blocked shot numbers. I honestly believe Sweetney can and will be better.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
gunsnewing
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3/3/2005  7:56 AM
great post Solace
Nalod
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3/3/2005  9:23 AM
Malik Rose will be a great presence both on and off the court as a role player on a really good team. He was on two championship teams with the spurs and was rewarded nicely with a contract for those contributions.

Booze is still only 24 years old, and has improved every year.

I like him, but I just cannot imagine we can keep replacing salary with more larger contracts.

If you think about him, KT is a better player for the moment.

I trust the draft picks we are going to use will be the future. We must grow some players, have deals expire, use some of the savings to pay the new kids, and just get reasonable salary structure.
BRIGGS
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3/3/2005  10:16 AM
Boozer is a good player, but not for this team. You don't spend 17mm$ on PFs long term, while you already have your own young puppy who could blossom, to go out and spend and give away draft picks for a player who has no effect on the D and is at best a minor improvement at that position from what we have. Unless all we want to do is buy undersized PF and fill up the roster with 6-7 260 pound players, I think it would be kee to in a different direction. If you want Boozer, draft wayne Simien, he's just as good and only costs a draft pick. We have many other needs. Id like to think Mike S can give us 14+10 and his back upS can do some things. We need to worry about differnt areas of the team. Unless we are trading for a 6-10+ PF who plays D, I think it is replication. If you asked me about PF, Id say just draft Simien--is he any differnt from Boozer? No but costs 5* less. People here get into this fascination that we have to trade expiring contracts and a draft pick. Last time we did that we lost amare stoudemire.
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franco12
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3/3/2005  10:25 AM
I watched some of Boozer's play and his game reminds me of an athletic KT- a lot of open jump shots.

Sweetney is a low post threat & we don't have anyone else you can say that about. I don't think Boozer is a back to the basket player.
Bonn1997
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3/3/2005  11:12 AM
Solace, Boozer had the same PER #s when Kirilenko was healthy earlier in the year. We'll get a chance to see how Sweetney plays now. If he shows good potential, then there's no reason to do this trade. Even if Sweetney's shows no potential, I would still stick to my position that there are several players ahead of Boozer that I would target first.
Allanfan20
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3/3/2005  11:15 AM
Like who now?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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3/3/2005  11:17 AM
Half the guys you listed were PFs including Brand. It's gonna take a heck of a lot more to get him than expiring contracts and draft picks and that might not make it worth it.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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3/3/2005  11:55 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Half the guys you listed were PFs including Brand. It's gonna take a heck of a lot more to get him than expiring contracts and draft picks and that might not make it worth it.
When I get a chance, I'll try to find one of the older threads where I listed all the players I'd target in order.
Solace
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3/3/2005  12:06 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Solace, Boozer had the same PER #s when Kirilenko was healthy earlier in the year. We'll get a chance to see how Sweetney plays now. If he shows good potential, then there's no reason to do this trade. Even if Sweetney's shows no potential, I would still stick to my position that there are several players ahead of Boozer that I would target first.

You mean all 8 games he played with Kirilenko to start the season? A) You can't judge a player after 8 games. B) unless you're going to tell me that you checked 82games.com for Carlos Boozer on the exact day before they played game #9, you really don't have much of a case. Either way, Kirilenko's defense would protect Boozer's defensive flaws, but Boozer's defensive flaws do hurt the team.

[Edited by - Solace on 03/03/2005 12:07:48]
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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3/3/2005  12:11 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Solace, Boozer had the same PER #s when Kirilenko was healthy earlier in the year. We'll get a chance to see how Sweetney plays now. If he shows good potential, then there's no reason to do this trade. Even if Sweetney's shows no potential, I would still stick to my position that there are several players ahead of Boozer that I would target first.

You mean all 8 games he played with Kirilenko to start the season? A) You can't judge a player after 8 games. B) unless you're going to tell me that you checked 82games.com for Carlos Boozer on the exact day before they played game #9, you really don't have much of a case. Either way, Kirilenko's defense would protect Boozer's defensive flaws, but Boozer's defensive flaws do hurt the team.

[Edited by - Solace on 03/03/2005 12:07:48]
How about for all 82 games he played last year obviously without Kirilenko? I know he played with Big Z, who's a nice defensive player but hardly a monster on defense. Boozer's 11.4 RPG last year also helped compensate for Big Z's mediocre rebounding
Allanfan20
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3/3/2005  12:34 PM
Actually, his rebounding hasn't been BAD. He averages 8 a game, which isn't great for most centers, however it's pretty good for a guy who has very little athletic ability. He's a good position rebounder, just like Kurt Thomas.

Most guys who are like, 7'3" and above barely turn out to be anything in the NBA and have very little impact, so 8 rebounds from Big Z is something to be thankful for, if anything. Same story with Yao.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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is boozer available for the expiring contracts?
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