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i wouldnt add payroll UNLESS it was for a young player here is why
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Pike
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1/14/2005  2:57 PM
.. allow me take it this a step further... he's a monster. I month or two agao, when the bulls were struggling, we probably could have had him for a package containing KT... now, he seems virtually untouchable and over the next few years, he'll be considered among the best centers in the league.
AUTOADVERT
bigpimpin
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1/14/2005  3:00 PM
i respect everyone's opinion who said they would trade kurt thomas and a no.1 for kwame brown but that is outrageous

and i don't even want to talk about stromile swift. he can jump and that's it.

if you want to say that he has potential then go ahead but remember when a player has potential it could be the potential to flop also. kwame brown has done nothing. kurt thomas led the nation in scoring and rebounding in college. he had potential also right

you say stro could be the starting frontcourt but he doesn't even start in memphis. he is bony and weak but he can jump, oh i said that already




"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
playa2
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1/14/2005  3:07 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

i respect everyone's opinion who said they would trade kurt thomas and a no.1 for kwame brown but that is outrageous

and i don't even want to talk about stromile swift. he can jump and that's it.

if you want to say that he has potential then go ahead but remember when a player has potential it could be the potential to flop also. kwame brown has done nothing. kurt thomas led the nation in scoring and rebounding in college. he had potential also right

you say stro could be the starting frontcourt but he doesn't even start in memphis. he is bony and weak but he can jump, oh i said that already






Bigpimpin, KT has had multiple injuries on his ankles and can't jump over two NY phone books.

KT was a great player in college before those injuries, but now he really is a great bench player(6th man) on a good team.

If we had a veteran PF who been in the league a few yrs and has experience in the NBA under his belt KT would be crying about PT.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
djsunyc
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1/14/2005  3:12 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

i respect everyone's opinion who said they would trade kurt thomas and a no.1 for kwame brown but that is outrageous

and i don't even want to talk about stromile swift. he can jump and that's it.

if you want to say that he has potential then go ahead but remember when a player has potential it could be the potential to flop also. kwame brown has done nothing. kurt thomas led the nation in scoring and rebounding in college. he had potential also right

you say stro could be the starting frontcourt but he doesn't even start in memphis. he is bony and weak but he can jump, oh i said that already



it's a calculated risk. do you want to continue on with kurt and nazr or do you want to make a trade for somebody that brings stuff to the table that the others don't? and who's only 22. even if it takes him 3 years to develop, you're still talking about a possible franchise type center at the age of 25.

i don't understand how you could not make that trade. jermaine o'neal got NO LOVE, absolutely NO LOVE but walsh made the deal anyway. he was pure potential also. look at that how turned out.

and the downside is that we can still recover from it b/c it won't be a max player type deal. will losing nazr and kurt really hurt us that much? it's not like we're on pace to win 55 games or nothing.

every draft pick is a risk. most bigs take time to develop. to not want kwame or swift, ESPECIALLY for kurt and nazr is, pardon my french, F'IN CRAZY...
crzymdups
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1/14/2005  3:13 PM
good post, kam77. but I don't think we've EVER seen that kind of ability to plan ahead, and I doubt we'll see it from Isiah. And really, the team that gets Bron or Wade will probably have a few nice young players making VERY little, a la this year's Bulls team. I wish we could plan ahead like this though.
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Pike
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1/14/2005  3:15 PM
bigpimpin reiterates a good point. In a nutshell, we as a franchise cannot afford to trade KT for the WRONG guy!
bigpimpin
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1/14/2005  3:15 PM
now tell me what kwame brown is, don't tell me what "he can be"

tell me what he is right now. he is INJURED. nuff said

can you see marbury and stro or kwame running the pick and roll better than marbury and kurt

hell no

kurt is not dominating and neither is swift and kwame

now if you want to go deeper, i can find better players in the league at just about every position on the knicks, so what are you really saying

anyways it's not up to kurt to win games for the knicks it's up to marbury
so don't go there
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
djsunyc
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1/14/2005  3:17 PM
Posted by Pike:

bigpimpin reiterates a good point. In a nutshell, we as a franchise cannot afford to trade KT for the WRONG guy!

can't afford? are you kidding me? i would dump kurt right now for a bag of beans just to give sweetney those minutes. and dumping a 30 year old PF with 3 more years at $6+mil a year is not really a great "trade chip". and i can't see how moving him for a young athletic player, who's F'IN 22 years old can be called "the WRONG guy"?!?!?

btw, the guy you can't afford to move for the WRONG guy is nazr b/c he's relatively young and is a decent player.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01/14/2005 15:22:11]
djsunyc
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1/14/2005  3:21 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

now tell me what kwame brown is, don't tell me what "he can be"

tell me what he is right now. he is INJURED. nuff said

can you see marbury and stro or kwame running the pick and roll better than marbury and kurt

hell no

kurt is not dominating and neither is swift and kwame

now if you want to go deeper, i can find better players in the league at just about every position on the knicks, so what are you really saying

anyways it's not up to kurt to win games for the knicks it's up to marbury
so don't go there

hey, you don't want kwame b/c he's injury prone, fine. that's a valid argument.

but to not want to trade kurt for his potential is nuts. kurt is a good bench player on a team that's looking to win an nba championship. he's AWFUL for a .500 team looking to get younger. i'm sorry, you can defend kurt all day long, but i move him in a nanosecond for kwame, swift, or any other young athletic player.

pick and roll? do you want to rely on your PF taking 15 foot jumpers all day, especially with a non-elite post up center? if that's the offense you want, hey, that's your choice.

but i want one where the pick and roll leads to a dunk or drive. kurt's time here is done.
Pike
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1/14/2005  3:24 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

can't afford? are you kidding me? i would dump kurt right now for a bag of beans just to give sweetney those minutes. and dumping a 30 year old PF with 3 more years at $6+mil a year is not really a great "trade chip". and i can't see how moving him for a young athletic player, who's F'IN 22 years old can be called "the WRONG guy"?!?!?

Well then your thinking is somewhere in la-la land. KT happens to be a very markateable player for us, whether you'd take a bag or beans or not.

He also happens to be one of the players on this team that makes us better, not worse. If stiffs like TT and H2O played as well, we'd be 8-10 games over .500.

... and the only thing Kwame Brown has going for him is his age. He's as unproven as they come... in fact, if he's proven anything, it's that he's odds on to be a BUST. We need as close to a sure thing as we can get with the few bargaining chips we have. You make the trade, I'll trade KT for someone else.



[Edited by - Pike on 01/14/2005 15:27:26]
bigpimpin
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1/14/2005  3:25 PM
djsun, i'll revisit this topic once kwame shows that he can play with some sort of passion

i'm sure olowankandi was a franchise type center who could give you 20-10 for the next ten years also

how are you going to compare jermaine o'neal to kwame brown. when i watched him in portland i didn't see kwame brown

when i watch kwame brown i see a deer caught in head lights

wait wait let me give you soem credit kwame could be a 20-10 guy i don't know for sure but many people go their lifetime without having what you call heart

how are you going to trade nazr for stro when stro is undersized to play both the 4 and the 5. wake up man. with stro keon clark jr here we get what 1 more block per game?

nazr is one of the top off rebounders in the game and his fg % aint too shabby either

stop overrating stromile swift. please
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
djsunyc
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1/14/2005  3:26 PM
Posted by Pike:
Posted by djsunyc:

can't afford? are you kidding me? i would dump kurt right now for a bag of beans just to give sweetney those minutes. and dumping a 30 year old PF with 3 more years at $6+mil a year is not really a great "trade chip". and i can't see how moving him for a young athletic player, who's F'IN 22 years old can be called "the WRONG guy"?!?!?

Well then your thinking is somewhere in la-la land. KT happens to be a very markateable player for us, whether you'd take a bag or beans or not.

He also happens to be one of the players on this team that makes us better, not worse. If stiffs like TT and H2O played as well, we'd be 8-10 games over .500.

... and the only thing Kwame Brown has going for him is his age. He's a unproven as they come... we need as close to a sure thing as we can get with the few bargaining chips we have. You make the trade, I'll trade KT was someone else.

fair enough - we obviously have different opinions on KT.
TMS
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1/14/2005  3:28 PM
i'm sorry, but anyone who thinks KT as our starting PF makes this team better is nuts...just how good has this team been the past 3 years with KT as our starting PF? i'll tell you...they've been in the lottery 2 of the past 3 & got thoroughly embarassed in a 4 game sweep by Kenyon Martin (the man KT was guarding) the 1 year they did make it.

trade KT for any young player w/upside potential & make way for Sweetney to see some more playing time...KT is NOT going to be the piece of our championship puzzle, i can tell you all that right now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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1/14/2005  3:29 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

djsun, i'll revisit this topic once kwame shows that he can play with some sort of passion

i'm sure olowankandi was a franchise type center who could give you 20-10 for the next ten years also

how are you going to compare jermaine o'neal to kwame brown. when i watched him in portland i didn't see kwame brown

when i watch kwame brown i see a deer caught in head lights

wait wait let me give you soem credit kwame could be a 20-10 guy i don't know for sure but many people go their lifetime without having what you call heart

how are you going to trade nazr for stro when stro is undersized to play both the 4 and the 5. wake up man. with stro keon clark jr here we get what 1 more block per game?

nazr is one of the top off rebounders in the game and his fg % aint too shabby either

stop overrating stromile swift. please

i guess i just believe that:

marbury, crawford, ariza, swift/sweets, kwame

is better than

marbury, crawford, ariza, kurt/sweets, nazr



[Edited by - djsunyc on 01/14/2005 15:29:49]
bigpimpin
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1/14/2005  3:29 PM
forgive me for the last pot djsun i saw where you actually saw the value of nazr

but i still am in agreement with pike about kt

my point and i'm sure his point is also, is that if the players on this team who are supposed to be star players do what they are supposed to do then you would see the true value of a kurt thomas

hell no he is not a star but he is a solid, a very solid role player.

doesn't a team supposed to have role players. okay then well we got one in kurt
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Pike
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1/14/2005  3:29 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

djsun, i'll revisit this topic once kwame shows that he can play with some sort of passion

i'm sure olowankandi was a franchise type center who could give you 20-10 for the next ten years also

how are you going to compare jermaine o'neal to kwame brown. when i watched him in portland i didn't see kwame brown

when i watch kwame brown i see a deer caught in head lights

Post of the day!!

Eloquently put, bigpimpin!!

LMAO
fishmike
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1/14/2005  3:31 PM
the pick and roll sucks. Give me a freakin post player. Run the pick and roll with wing players or a guy that can actually ROLL. Its not a pick and roll, its a pick and shoot. A pick and roll is what Malone/Stockton used to run and allowed Malone to attack the basket after his defender was out of position. It wasnt about getting a little space to chuck up another 15 footer.

KT is shooting 49%... who cares? Jerome actually runs it better because he will put the ball on the floor and attack the basket looking for a teammate or a foul.

KT has taken 37 FTs. Thats mind boggling. Thats not even 2 a game. Thats 8th on the team, but KT is 2nd in minutes. Please stop harping about KT... I'm sick of hearing about how valuable he is while we lose year after year after year
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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1/14/2005  3:31 PM
Posted by bigpimpin:

forgive me for the last pot djsun i saw where you actually saw the value of nazr

but i still am in agreement with pike about kt

my point and i'm sure his point is also, is that if the players on this team who are supposed to be star players do what they are supposed to do then you would see the true value of a kurt thomas

hell no he is not a star but he is a solid, a very solid role player.

doesn't a team supposed to have role players. okay then well we got one in kurt

the problem is we only have one "star" player and he has his flaws. crawford, ariza, and sweets are potential. h20 is on the downside and tim looks done. so have a solid role player like kurt (which is EXACTLY what he is) is not the right fit for this team.
bigpimpin
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1/14/2005  3:34 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i guess i just believe that:

marbury, crawford, ariza, swift/sweets, kwame

is better than

marbury, crawford, ariza, kurt/sweets, nazr


you may be right but i don't even think that would be the team that the knicks would have after and if they were to get kwame brown and stromile swift

if tim thomas and allan houston played up to their potential. your word then how could you have anything bad to say about kt then

i've seen kurt thomas get his arse handed to him on a couple of occasions but i also seen marbury, houston and tbig game tim thomas get theirs handed also

i think when it all comes down to it and you name the most effecient -players on our roster, then you have to put kurt in the top 4 or 5
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
TMS
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1/14/2005  3:34 PM
doesn't a team supposed to have role players. okay then well we got one in kurt

i'm perfectly fine w/having more athletic role players like Ariza, JYD, Sweetney & Nazr...we need to find more potential to fill that PF position & give us something to hope for going forward...KT has reached his peak & will never be better than he is right now...whether guys like Kwame or Curry have is yet to be seen, but it's a good chance to take.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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i wouldnt add payroll UNLESS it was for a young player here is why
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