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Is sweetney really that good
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BRIGGS
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1/7/2005  1:34 PM
the only way to find out what mike is is by playing him 38 minutes a night, every night, but the medicore knicks wont do it. the fact that they wont do it leaves me to believe they are only just so high on Mike--he does have big trouble against top tier tall PFs, but again, to be fair, he hasnt had full opportunity.

should he get the chance well, im sure most of the fans wanted him in there from the start, and of course am willing to do so at any time.

the NEW YORK Knicks basketball team IS NOT GOOD enough to NOT give Mike a solid try

We are WORSE than last year if you consider the knicks POST marbury trade.

we have gone backwards, we did NOT secure quality end of rotation back ups which has hurt the team a bit. but thats management choice as well as playing KT 40 minutes a night.
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rvhoss
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1/7/2005  1:37 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I dont see why this summer we dont have the resources to do that.

We will have the resources if Briggs and Dido practice the ancient art of patience.
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rvhoss
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1/7/2005  1:41 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


the NEW YORK Knicks basketball team IS NOT GOOD enough to NOT give Mike a solid try

We are WORSE than last year if you consider the knicks POST marbury trade.

we have gone backwards, we did NOT secure quality end of rotation back ups which has hurt the team a bit. but thats management choice as well as playing KT 40 minutes a night.

You are kidding me right? Sweets, penny and craw are hurt, all backups for KT, TT and H20...knowing that, you then have JYD and Ariza, and then at the end you have Vin (who is showing signs of life after not playing for WEEKS) and Moochie (admirable back up).

You guys scare me...you must be young, because anybody that talks end of the world as often as you do would need a suicide watch.

We have a winning record since marbury came on board...we stitched our team together on the fly during the year. H20 jsut got back and then we lost crawford...sweets was ready to rock, and then we lost him.

I know this is going to be impossible for you to do...but wait until we have a full team for a full week before we label KNICKS are worst then pre Marbs.

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Pike
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1/7/2005  1:43 PM
that's a good point... the team is going nowhere, we are mediocre but, Sweet's not getting minutes... typical N.Y. stuff. It's been happening for years with many of the local teams and it's frankly stupid and short sighted.

Stupid premise being, we gotta get into the playoffs ($$$) at any cost to long range future of team.
Pike
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1/7/2005  1:48 PM
Silverfuel: I'm a HUGE Elton Brand fan and would give my left arm to get him here and we know that'll never happen. That being said, I don't know if Sweet's will be as good... Besides, Sweet's is more a true four and Brand is a 4/5. Brands a horse though so, it's a lofty goal that Mike will be as good.
Pike
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1/7/2005  1:49 PM
rvhoos: Sweet's was not getting adequate minutes BEFORE he got hurt.
fishmike
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1/7/2005  2:08 PM
Playing Sweetney 35 minutes ruins KT for the year. Lets face it. He's going to pout on the bench and in fairness to him he's played well, we just arent winning games with him and Nazr. Does anyone really think KT is a Knick next year?

This is exactly what happened in Portland. They sat Zach all year until the very end of the season when the playoffs started. The only difference is Weed moved to SF, which we know KT cant do. You pull the plug in KT's season and you wont be able to move him next year. How does that benefit this team moving forward?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pike
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1/7/2005  2:12 PM
... yep.

It truly is unfortunate that Sweet's and KT play the same position... and we have wastes like TT running around like a chicken without a head.
fishmike
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1/7/2005  2:19 PM
the only solution is a trade. If you could move KT and filler to the Wolves for Wally then Sweetney becomes the starting 4 backup up by JYD.
Marbury/Moochie
Crawford/Houston
Wally/TT/Ariza
Sweetney/JYD
Nazr/Baker/Bruno

Wally is a good 3 to have with Crawford and Marbury. He's athletic, shoots a high %, has good size, great range and good passer/handle. It leaves you weak up front but who cares? We arent winning a title now, get a look at Sweetney for 50 games.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pike
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1/7/2005  2:25 PM
I think this is Isiah's thinking. It means he has ZERO confidence in TT and Houston.. and of course, he's right to feel this way.

Only thing, someone on another thread make the point that doing this deal and giving up KT, gives up the chip we have to land a player like Curry or God forbid, the D word. I guess no worse than with TT on the floor.

[Edited by - Pike on 01/07/2005 14:27:15]
Pike
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1/7/2005  2:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the only solution is a trade. If you could move KT and filler to the Wolves for Wally then Sweetney becomes the starting 4 backup up by JYD.
Marbury/Moochie
Crawford/Houston
Wally/TT/Ariza
Sweetney/JYD
Nazr/Baker/Bruno

Of course, the problem with this team is bad defense and getting pulverized on the boards.
newyorknewyork
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1/7/2005  2:31 PM
Sweetney has a lot of tools. You see the turn around developing, the offensive & defensive rebounds, the man to man defense, the shot blocking(sometimes), The 15 footer, gets to the line, has a 7'4 wingspan, and very soft hands, good passer out of the post. He is only 21. And he hasn't played a full season yet in the last 2yrs.

U could just imagine when he finally puts it all together and formed consistancy which happens with experience.

He had 2 30min games. First game he had 18pts-5rebs-2blks(2pfs) the 2nd he had 14pts-9rebs-2blks(1pf). There was a game when he put up 7pts 4rebs in 9mins(1PF). And another when he put up 14pts 7rebs 1blk in 17mins(2PFs). 11-7 in 19mins(2Pfs) 11-9 in 21mins(0PFs), 11-5 in 20mins(3PFs).

If we were to live and die with him getting 30mins a night he would put up what Curry is putting up right now. Curry got 29mins last season put up 15pts 6rebs. He is getting 29mins again this season and is putting up 16pts 6.5rebs. Curry has some very good games and some bad games with the same issue with fouls. With all that guranteed time he is continueing to grow. I would trade Sweetney for Curry right now if I could though.
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djsunyc
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1/7/2005  2:34 PM
i don't think any knick fan will have a problem taking a step back now and starting sweetney in place of kurt. but fish made a good point earlier. by doing this, you effectively hurt kurt's value almost to a point where he unmoveable. he's not the easiest to move to begin with. that's why i would love to trade him now - even for that diop + wagner + #1 b/c then we can finally throw sweetney out there and see what we have. but i'm guessing this won't happen. i think isiah intends to have kurt play as much as possible and use him to get a nice SF this offseason and then hand it over to sweetney. i think sweetney is pretty much untouchable to isiah and he will not be moved.
Vmart
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1/7/2005  2:50 PM
If given the starting Job Sweetney will be Boozer good from last year. 15-10 and eventually become a 18-10 or 20-10 player. Thats how good he is. Unfortunately NYK management is sniffing glue and just holding this guy from a big year next year by playing him sparingly this year. God damn this team just let Sweetney start. They aren't going anywhere with KT starting not this year not next not ever. They gotta make the decision for the future now. If they don't do it they are just gonna waste Sweetney away.

The Knicks have a better shot at winning a championship 2-3 years from now playing Sweetney today then giving KT the run today. This is nothing but a soory azz team.
newyorknewyork
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1/7/2005  3:06 PM
Realistically he probaly would put up 14-7. Then grow into 16-8 following yr and continue to grow to 17-10.

I don't mind having him come off the bench right now. But I wouln't move Sweetney plus Ariza plus another #1 for Brown especially since we could probably get Brown for cheaper. Id rather move KT or Muhammad for Chandler or Dalembert or Brown S&T in the offseason to go along with Sweetney & Ariza & our #1. Say we do that and a few yrs down the road Chandler puts up 10-10-2, Sweentey puts up 15-9-1.5, Ariza puts up 10-5-4-2, wouldn't we be better off??
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fishmike
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1/7/2005  3:09 PM
Of course, the problem with this team is bad defense and getting pulverized on the boards.
thats fine... its about the future anyway. Maybe with the better ball movement you can win some games like Seattle does.

Vmart.. it may frustrate people but management is doing the right thing. They know they have to upgrade the front court and that means getting max value for guys like TT, KT, Nazr, and that means playing them. You dont get good trade value for a disgruntled veteran pissed about sitting on the bench when every team in the NBA knows your trying to dump them.

Its about the big picture, and the big picture is going into the offseason with TT, Nazr and KT's value at the highest it can be. Unless you think no Sweetney/Ariza is keeping us from a title this year its the way to go. Frustrating as it may be
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Vmart
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1/7/2005  3:17 PM
Fish the reality of the situation is no one wants these guys. KT, Nazr and what have you. They aren't wanted unless the Knicks are willing to take their garbage. Like Rose in return. Where is the demand. KT's new contract was suppose to make him tradeable what happened.
Pike
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1/7/2005  3:35 PM
Wrong again Vmart. Teams are interested in KT. Isiah hasn't seen anything he likes thus far.
gunsnewing
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1/7/2005  3:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:

who said they would never trade him? I didnt like the Sweetney/Ariza future unprotected draft pick for Kwame trade. If that trade happened I would be excited to have Kwame, I just dont think its a great move now, especially when he's an RFA. You could just wind up paying for him twice. Better to use expiring deals and have his agent bully the Wizards into making a trade. Its not that I dont like Kwame, its just the timing.

What about Nazr+Baker+rights to our 04 #1, and $3mm for Kwame in a sign and trade starting at $8mm? Then you have Kwame/Sweetney/Ariza at the 3,4,5 in your pipeline. Why wouldnt Wash take Nazr and pick (Baker's free we include the $3mm) rather than pay Kwame big cash? They arent the Knicks and Mavs with their payroll. If it doesnt happen you move to Curry or Dalembert and so on.

Its not about refusing to trade Sweetney its about getting the most for our assets and that means timing is critical.

Glad you think its funny though

[Edited by - fishmike on 01/07/2005 10:59:30]

we can't trade this year's pick because you can't trade your 1st rounder 2 years in a row. Maybe we can on draft day for washington's pick + Nazr and co.
gunsnewing
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1/7/2005  4:08 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Playing Sweetney 35 minutes ruins KT for the year. Lets face it. He's going to pout on the bench and in fairness to him he's played well, we just arent winning games with him and Nazr. Does anyone really think KT is a Knick next year?

This is exactly what happened in Portland. They sat Zach all year until the very end of the season when the playoffs started. The only difference is Weed moved to SF, which we know KT cant do. You pull the plug in KT's season and you wont be able to move him next year. How does that benefit this team moving forward?

yeah exactly! thats why I'm hopeful and pretty sure Kurt will be traded before the deadline. There's gotta be some teams interested in his 11pts/10rebs and his help defense. Then Sweetney will ge the minutes so that we can judge if he's going to be the guy we need him to be. If he stinks it up then trade him in the off-season but if he shows signs and his strengths really help our team. Then it will be a joy to watch him grow.
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