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We argue this and that, but the real problem is lenny........
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misterearl
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1/7/2005  8:22 AM
>>Watching Nat McMillian its not like he has loads of talent on the team if anything they might have less but its his ability to get them to work cohesively that is putting the Sonics where they are.

VMart c'mon, you think Rashard Lewis would look good in orange and blue?

>>D'antoni on the Suns is doing an exceptional job he has a lot of talent but he isn't wasting the talent he took his talent and gave them an identity probably the most important thing to a group of players could have.

Can you say Amare Stoudamire?

>>Spurs defense,

Tim Duncan?

The teams you point an accusing finfer at Lenny over have PLAYERS!

Lenny's job is to coach the players he has on the roster. Are you suggesting the Kniocks roster has more talent than the Suns, Spurs and Sonics?

Lenny ain't the problem.

Fix the frontcourt.
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diderotn
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1/7/2005  9:25 AM
If he had a front-court, he wouldn't know what to do with it....He hardly knows how to use Nazr...
The true Knickabocker..........
misterearl
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1/7/2005  10:16 AM
Diderotn -in case you haven't noticed, Nazr is having a breakout year. I watched him in Atlanta and Lenny has brough him MILES from where he once was. Did you ever see Nazr three years ago?

We miss Jamal Crawford.

As much as some writers pointed to the shot distribution and subtle efficiency of Houston's game, Jamal brought a much different energy and attitude to the floor..

Whether one questions his shot selection or decision-making, the fact remains... the young man could rumble and was fearless.

His mojo infected the Knicks with a different type of swagger.

Jamal also contributed in all areas of the game. So I'm not sweatin' the current soap opera plot twists.

What team can instantly adjust to the loss of a starter, or a valuable rotation player like Mike Sweetney or a Penny Hardaway, especially on a team that runs shift lines like a hockey team.?

Having said that, the prototypical player Isiah is researching resembles Rashard Lewis. No one is safe. Get real. Another 6'11 stud makes Lenny a better coach.

Enjoy The Ride
once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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1/7/2005  10:24 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Did it every occur to fans that the GMs and owners that have been hiring and paying this guy *might* know a little more that you do?
So, Fish, does that mean that the same GMs who have been firing this guy *might* know a little more than you do?
great retort. Look at his career and he's been in every coaching job for an exended period of time. He didnt do TV work for 2-3 year between jobs like Karl, Fratello or Doug Collins. There is a reason he's got a job every year despite his "inability" to teach the Knicks how to play defense every night. Maybe he should bust out his old Hawks or Cavs playbooks because those were some damn good defensive teams.

I would love to see Sweetney play 30 minutes a night, but unless the GM tells him too KT is the starter and will get starter minutes.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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1/7/2005  10:44 AM
Lenny's last jobs since 1977
Seattle 8 years
Cle 7 years
Atl 7 years
Tor 3 years
NY current

He had one year off between Sea/Cle and has worked every year since. I know you love to find the popular vote and make it your opinion but Lenny doesnt have a long history of being fired.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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1/7/2005  11:08 AM
I think Lenny has down something I didn't think possible

he turned the Knicks into a semi-smooth offensive team.

Sure, IT changed the personel, but the prior years under chaney, this team would inevitably falter on the offensive end, unable to buy a basket. That happens to all teams occasionally, but with us it was all the time.

We're not as good defensively, true.

But this is still a work in progress- a new coach and new teammates trying to work together- Houston's been out and just getting back in shape, Crawford out now, TT with personal issues.

The thing that I get a little impatient with is Lenny's rotations and player substition patterns.
fishmike
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1/7/2005  11:15 AM
I think people want to see the young guys play more, especially when your not winning a ton of games with the veterans. Its tough... do you want to hurt your chances this offseason by sitting the veterans your hoping to trade in 9 months, or do you stay patient, tell Ariza and Sweetney thier time will come and just stay the course?

But people dont think of this stuff... only that we lost and somehow another player on our roster could have prevented that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
misterearl
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1/7/2005  11:45 AM
Say What?

>>Guys here don't understand we are getting the same goose egg from the same goose.

playa - After the years of Laydens poor stewardship, the Knicks are a rebuilding project. Now, after one year under Isiah, people are ready to mutiny and blame Lenny for the roster he's inherited and Isiah for not delivering a championship-calibre team.

I wonder if you Drama Queens who impatiently retrospect every substitution and roster move like it was a rotisseiere league EVER played the game. OR have a sense of what it actually requires to build a franchise from the capped-out mess Layden left.

"Nah, fire the coach.!"

Isiah rebuilt the backcourt in a year. This year it's the frontcourt. No matter the impatience of the pimple-poppers who feel they are owed some instant results, Isiah will get it done.

You REALLY have a better idea?

Or nothing better to do than complain?
once a knick always a knick
diderotn
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1/7/2005  1:07 PM
I know that you are not attributing Nazr's success to Lenny. Isiah has asked Lenny to use the youngins, and they are all being coached by my man Agwire......it is not like Lenny called any specific plays for Nazr nor Sweetney.....

Posted by misterearl:

Diderotn -in case you haven't noticed, Nazr is having a breakout year. I watched him in Atlanta and Lenny has brough him MILES from where he once was. Did you ever see Nazr three years ago?

We miss Jamal Crawford.

As much as some writers pointed to the shot distribution and subtle efficiency of Houston's game, Jamal brought a much different energy and attitude to the floor..

Whether one questions his shot selection or decision-making, the fact remains... the young man could rumble and was fearless.

His mojo infected the Knicks with a different type of swagger.

Jamal also contributed in all areas of the game. So I'm not sweatin' the current soap opera plot twists.

What team can instantly adjust to the loss of a starter, or a valuable rotation player like Mike Sweetney or a Penny Hardaway, especially on a team that runs shift lines like a hockey team.?

Having said that, the prototypical player Isiah is researching resembles Rashard Lewis. No one is safe. Get real. Another 6'11 stud makes Lenny a better coach.

Enjoy The Ride
The true Knickabocker..........
Nalod
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1/7/2005  1:19 PM
Is marbury busting his ass on defense? Or his he being beligerant to the coaches?

Is TT been all there for his coach, team or family? He has been hurting!

Has Allan fully been given enough time to work it back in? Or a littled rushed given Craws abcense. At times he looks really lame.

But time has a way of curing things like TTs confidence and H20's strenght. They have shown some flashes of goodness.

Im not bashing Lenny cus I don't think this is all on him. But I really thought he was a bad hire from day one, and Isiah really botched the Chaney firing, and his hiring. Lets be real here guys, Chaney did a good job with little for most of his time here, and I think could have done at least as good a job as lenny did.

Isiah needs to think he can get Phil Jax and rid of lenny on a losing streak cuz he would look really bad if lenny did ok and pushed him for Phil Jax. In fact, that is almost a professional No No!

All this from a guy that felt he was slighted by Larry Bird and preached the higher ground that he would take care of his coaches, help them, not hurt them. The one fault I really find with Isiah is he had done the exact opposite.

Isish and the team will continue to get bad press so long as our salary is so much higher than anyone and we are just a .500 team. Thats the reality and the benchmark this team must face to the rest of the basketbal world.
fishmike
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1/7/2005  1:20 PM
Posted by diderotn:
I know that you are not attributing Nazr's success to Lenny. Isiah has asked Lenny to use the youngins, and they are all being coached by my man Agwire......it is not like Lenny called any specific plays for Nazr nor Sweetney.....
really? Your in the huddle? Lenny's never told the guards to feed the post when NAzr's guarded by a smaller player? This is the crap I am talking about. Its Lenny's fault we lose games, but Its all thanks to Aguire that Nazr has almost doubled his production compared to his career average. Its Lenny's fault we lose because of bad subsitutions, but thank god for the players great comeback against Phili or Sota.

You just looking to place blame somewhere. how about just accepting that this is a .500 roster, and despite form fire power in the backcourt so long as KT and Nazr are playing 65 minutes your getting beat there mostly every night. If we have a bunch off good young big bodies upfront next year and we are still losing these types of games blame Lenny all you want. Until then take a look at the roster be realistic.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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1/7/2005  1:34 PM
Dido does not live in the NYmetro area and see's few games. He gets his info from the newspapers. I can understand his position, but it only tells half the story.
playa2
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1/7/2005  1:37 PM
Lenny was apuppet from the get go and Zekes pulls his strings whenever he wants.

He can overide his practice, he can fire lenny's closes and #1 assistant.

He can come into the locker room and give a tongue lashing tirade and threaten the players at half time.

I can't think of no other HALL OF FAME COACH allowing his Gm to do all his task for him.


Almost like Lenny's his father and zeke wants to move in on the family run business to show how it should be done.

A PUPPET I TELL YA!

[Edited by - playa2 on 01/07/2005 13:38:50]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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1/7/2005  1:40 PM
?!?!? What the hell are you saying? Do you ever say anything? Seriously.. make a point. Please, for the love of god.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Pike
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1/7/2005  2:02 PM
ROFLMAO!!
misterearl
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1/7/2005  2:21 PM
Sheesh

>>I can't think of no other HALL OF FAME COACH allowing his Gm to do all his task for him.

playa - you must have a limited knowledge of NYKnicks front office histrionics. For the first time in along while our beloved Knicks have two leaders that actually PLAYED the game AND have administrative experience on many levels and all you can come up with is a lame puppet comment?

It's a team game son. The Knicks front office finally shows signs of becoming cohesive and despite your NEVER having attended a practice or EVER visiting the locker room you assert that Lenny is a puppet?

You must yearn for the days of Jack McCloud and Al Bianchi.

Gimme a break
once a knick always a knick
diderotn
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1/7/2005  2:29 PM
I get to see the games now man. I have discovered this billiard/bar that shows almost all of the games. I am well informed now my friend. I used to be a big Lenny fan when he was five years younger, but right now, his decision making has gone bad.....Age could be the factor, therefore he has to go......

Posted by Nalod:

Dido does not live in the NYmetro area and see's few games. He gets his info from the newspapers. I can understand his position, but it only tells half the story.
The true Knickabocker..........
martin
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1/7/2005  2:34 PM
Posted by diderotn:

I get to see the games now man. I have discovered this billiard/bar that shows almost all of the games. I am well informed now my friend. I used to be a big Lenny fan when he was five years younger, but right now, his decision making has gone bad.....Age could be the factor, therefore he has to go......

Posted by Nalod:

Dido does not live in the NYmetro area and see's few games. He gets his info from the newspapers. I can understand his position, but it only tells half the story.

How about this: What has Isiah communicated to Wilkens as his primary goals with the team, and in what order?

If this was a team that expected to go deep into the playoffs and they were at the point we find them now, I would agree that Wilkens has to go, but it is NOT.
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newyorknewyork
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1/7/2005  2:47 PM
A coach is only as good as the talent level he has. Sure Marbury keeps us competitive becuase he is that talented but again.

61.6millions dollars contributing 30pts 9.8rebs 5assist. Thats pathetic.

We have 18pts a game out with and injury. Houston still hasn't recoverd from injury but makes 17mil so it basically impossible to replace him with more production. TT can't hit any of his midrange jumpers or 3s. Penny Hardaway is done. Our frontcourt is undersized, we have no intimidater, opponents don't fear Muhammad or KT on offense. We give up more pts and rebounds then get in the paint vs any quality teams. Muhammad is our go to guy down low.

If Houston and TT played like they did last yr it would all be a different story though plus you add in Crawford. But our backcourt is so banged up that they can't take the pressure off the frontcourt. And Marbury tries and tries to take over and does most of the time but its not enough to pull out the W.
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fishmike
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1/7/2005  3:14 PM
this is total BS. It shouldnt take more than a year to turn a core roster of Spoon, Frank, Ward, Eisley, Anderson, Ward, Houston, McDyess, KVH, Doleac and Mutumbo into a title contendor. Clearly coaching is to blamed for this lack of turn around.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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We argue this and that, but the real problem is lenny........
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