I am willing to be the Blazers would have traded Wallace to the Knicks for Vujanic and McDyess. Since it would have given them instant cap relief this summer....

True we would have still been stuck with Eisley but we would have had another draft pick to play with, could have bought Eisley out and used just let ward expire if a small deal didn't come about....

Then you don't have Hardaway on the books for 40 million for the 2 1/2 seasons....

But it was a tough spot because Wallace probably would have left in the summer....

We are not having this conversation if Danny Ainge didn't bitch out and hand deliver Sheed to the Pistons, they could have got him this summer, and then the Marbury deal would have looked genius...Just missed out.....

The Knicks as is now with the addition of Wallace would be unstoppable....

If Danny only had a brain

Marbury
Houston/Craw
TT/Penny
Wallace/Sweet
Thomas/Naz

"I am willing to be the Blazers would have traded Wallace to the Knicks for Vujanic and McDyess. Since it would have given them instant cap relief this summer...."

That makes no sense... sorry. Sheed WAS an expiring deal. Thats what Atl. took him. If you wanted to argue we would be better off with Rahim and Ratliff than Marbury go ahead, but we had no chance at Sheed from Port.
Its hard to judge a GM only a year into a job. no GM has ever turned things around that fast. Usually you need at least 2 offseasons and 2-3 drafts before you can really change a frachise.

Playa, I dont disagree, but what bigman was available? Sheed? Was he going to turn around the Knicks, and is that the guy you want coming to a losing team to turn things around? He's proven to be a great #2 guy or #3 guy in Det. I agree 100% that Marbury and Crawford are about putting fans in seats and making the team watchable, but they are also good players with value. Also guys like Nazr and KT are benefitting from playing with them. If Nazr averages 14/11 this year and is part of a big sign and trade that lands us a bigman like Kwame or Dalembert is Marbury worth it then?

I dont know how you give Isiah anything but an I for incomplete. If we got Ratliff and Rahim we would be losing close games in the 80s instead of the 100s and averaging 20 TOs a game because we wouldnt have had the assets to improve our permiter players. Ratliff+Rahim would be 100 times better than KT and whoever, but your still looking at Eisley, Shandon, Houston, Frank, et al as your wing players. That looks like about a 42-45 win team at best to me.

Posted by fishmike:

you can find a PG anywhere? Who said that??? Thats the dumbest crap I have heard in the last 10 minutes.

Then why before Marbury got here was the last good PG Harper? Ward, Childs, Eisley, Mark Jackson, Frank Williams... easy indeed.

Fishy, you know what you can use that excuse until you become green in the face, but you can't tell me teams in the NBA HAVEN'T PICKED UP GUARDS WHO NOBODY WANTED and they became starters (VIA INJURIES whatever) in the NBA.

Posted by playa2:

Posted by fishmike:

you can find a PG anywhere? Who said that??? Thats the dumbest crap I have heard in the last 10 minutes.

Then why before Marbury got here was the last good PG Harper? Ward, Childs, Eisley, Mark Jackson, Frank Williams... easy indeed.

Fishy, you know what you can use that excuse until you become green in the face, but you can't tell me teams in the NBA HAVEN'T PICKED UP GUARDS WHO NOBODY WANTED and they became starters (VIA INJURIES whatever) in the NBA.

Look at Mo Williams on the Bucks........
Brevin Knight and Jason Heart on Charlotte.....
Chucky Atkins in LA......

Jeff Freakin McInnis in Cleveland......talk about a steal.

Damon Jones in Miami.

Rafer Alston in Miami last year and Toronto this year.

Milt Palacio on Toronto too has played well whenever he got minutes especially against the Knicks.

Earl Watson!!!

Watch out for that Brazilian kid on Pheonix!!!

Smush Parker and Jenkins on Detroit are both too bad mofo's but they are sitting behind Chancey. Watch out for them.....

Troy Hudson!!!!

The list goes on and on.......point guards could be found anywhere.

Still the Marbs trade had to happen because the Knicks needed to get better......the Knicks back court at the time was worse than the front court.

Now the Knicks have a better back court but they still have the same front court.......

Dec 15th- Dec 25th I expect something to go down.

I'm sorry... those guys are decent players but none sniff the impact guys like Marbury, Francis, Davis, Kidd or other elite point guards have.

That doesnt prove anything. Every team you mentioned also got a big man thats having just as big an impact.
Look at Mo Williams on the Bucks and Gadzuric
Brevin Knight and Jason Heart on Charlotte and the big Euro kid from Indy
Chucky Atkins in LA and Vlade Divac

Jeff Freakin McInnis in Cleveland......talk about a steal. And Boozer is now gone, but Cle had him also. Plus they traded Miles to get him.

Damon Jones in Miami.. sorry, not impressed there.

Rafer Alston in Miami last year and Toronto this year. Loren Woods for Toronto starting at center.

Milt Palacio on Toronto too has played well whenever he got minutes especially against the Knicks. And Ariza has had a big impact at times also.... your point?

Earl Watson!!! Jake Tsakalidis !!!!

Watch out for that Brazilian kid on Pheonix!!! And Lampe a throw in 2nd rounder also!!!!

Smush Parker and Jenkins on Detroit are both too bad mofo's but they are sitting behind Chancey. Watch out for them..... And watch out for McDyess... from the MLE scrap heap averaging 20/12 when Big Ben was out.

Troy Hudson!!!! Olowakandi!!!!

Yes indeed... thanks for clearing this up for me. Who needs Marbury or Crawford when you can have Smush Parker or Damon Jones.

you have to have both... you need bigs and smalls. All the great NBA teams have both.

This is the thinking that screwed us when we had Ewing. The best guard he played with in his prime was Harper and he was on the downside of his career. Houston was a good try and so was Spree but Ewing was what? 33 when they got Houston?

So we have some wing players I think we can build with for many years to come in Marbury, Craford and Ariza. Sweetney will be at the very least a good scorer in the post. Now we need some athletic bigs that play D. I say use Nazr's expiring deal in a S&T along with Houston's #2 and cash to sign Swift or Dalembert. Then draft a big guy even if he's a prospect. Trade KT for someone like Booth and a late #1 from Dallas to add more size. All the same stuff we did LAST offseason. Problem is we ran out of chips. Next offseason we wil have some more. This is rebuilding.

It is far easier to find an impact PG than an impact C/PF. In today's NBA it is much more intelligent to build from big to small than from small to big like Isiah is trying to do. I'm not saying that Isiah's method will not work out eventually; it's just that the retooling process would have been far more effective if it was done the other way. Isiah wanted to make headlines, so he made the deal for Marbury. It got fans in the seats. Now that he's done that, he needs to stop looking at guards indefinitely and concentrate solely on big-men.

BTW, I find the Spoon for Moochie to be his worst deal. At least Spoon rebounded and we could have bought him out. Moochie does nothing. I'd rather a donkey run the point than Moochie.

Dude! Isiah did what he could with what he had available. There were no big men out there when he came to N.Y. In fact there still aren't any big men out there available today. Stop talkinga about building from big to small, because the opportunities weren't are are still not there.

Posted by NYKDUNK:

It is far easier to find an impact PG than an impact C/PF. In today's NBA it is much more intelligent to build from big to small than from small to big like Isiah is trying to do. I'm not saying that Isiah's method will not work out eventually; it's just that the retooling process would have been far more effective if it was done the other way. Isiah wanted to make headlines, so he made the deal for Marbury. It got fans in the seats. Now that he's done that, he needs to stop looking at guards indefinitely and concentrate solely on big-men.

BTW, I find the Spoon for Moochie to be his worst deal. At least Spoon rebounded and we could have bought him out. Moochie does nothing. I'd rather a donkey run the point than Moochie.

) KVH and Doleac for TT and Nazy - Nazy's working out, but TT is horrible - minus

That's the only one I disagree on. Nazy's better than Van Horn and TT's better than Doleac IMO

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 12/08/2004 14:33:47]

This is a pretty stupid thread and sometimes its best to just leave your overreactions in your head, rather than vomit it out in public and embarass yourself.

While this team obviously has its flaws, and isn't the greatest mix of players in the world, the talent base has been upgraded immensely.

They gave up a ton of assets for Marbury, I don't deny that and I wasn't a fan of the trade when it happened. Still, Marbury is a far better player than anyone that was on the team and probably a far better player than any attainable. He has definitely made a difference and adjusted his game. He can't be everything to everyone, you can't tell him to stop shooting and just distribute and still be the best scorer on the team, and chide him on an off night. It's just not a legitimate or fair crticism. The team as a whole needs to learn to play better when Marbury is not hitting his shots. I don't think its fair to call him a loser either. Would this team be better of w/ Frank Williams, who can't get off the bench on one of the worst teams in the league, and someone like Rasheed Wallace, who's underachieving?

Trading Mooch for Spoon...guess what, the best thing it did was reduce the logjam at PF and allow playing time for Sweetney to develop. Who cares what Mooch does...he's not playing much and isnt blocking anyone.

Trading for TT and Nazr...TT sucks. I dont like him...he's far softer than Van Horn isn't as good an all around player. Nazr however has worked out well...this is a guy that is giving you like 18 and 10 over the past few games...thats all that Van Horn gave you anyway. His rebounding and ability to finish inside has helped us inside. He's not a shotblocker or defensive stopper, but he's very much a playable guy at a position where we didn't really have any playable guys.

Waiving Anderson...come on, you were crying tears of joy just like everyone else when he was gone.

Getting Craw...Guess what, this was a great move. We gave up nothing to get a guy who can score 18 a night. We would be in deep doodoo right now if we didn't have him with Houston out. He's got a lot to work on, but the guy is a super talent, very versatile and at some point he will get it.

Zeke's work is not done. He still has to bring in a defensive big and get a coach for the long term (someone who will play D), but given that he's done all he's done in barely a year, why don't you think he can get more done in the next few months.

We'll see about Carter. If you can get him at a discounted price, its another no brainer to upgrade the talent base. When this guy is motivated, he can shoot, post, slash and even play decent D. A change of scenery is basically all he's looking for to get going again. I don't want Rose's money, but we'll see what ends up happening.

In the meantime, be patient. It's not worth it to overreact to every bad stretch of the season. There's 82 games and things have a way of settling down over time.



[Edited by - VDesai on 12/08/2004 15:29:41]