Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:The accomplishments speak for themselves

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This is why I don’t get how Brunson still isn’t considered a hall of fame guaranteed right now. Bill Walton had basically 2 great years and still got in because of these accomplishments. Brunson is literally a top-5 winning player of all-time, as this list shows. Obviously he’s going to get in someday, but I put him firmly ahead of the many great guards of this generation who have not won at every level. Westbrook, Lillard, Harden, Kyrie etc. Brunson is simply in another category in terms of leading teams to the promise land.

I have talk about this the last few years and noted his accomplishments when he first got here.
His college career set the table. series and MVP I believe seals it.

as for Walton, take off those Orange and BLue glasses and be objective:
Walton in college:

NCAA Championships: Won back-to-back national titles in 1972 and 1973.Final Four MOP: Named the NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player in 1972 and 1973.National Player of the Year: Won the Naismith Award and other major POY honors three consecutive years (1972–1974).Iconic Performance: Scored 44 points on 21-of-22 shooting in the 1973 national championship game against Memphis State.

Walton was a league MVP. Walton at age 33 was 6th man of the year and he won a second title with Boston. His injuries cost him 3 full seasons and really denied him his true place in history. He was that good. He had it all including great passing acumen.

Few college careers trump Jalens, but Waltons does. 3x player of the year. Recall players did not play on varsity as freshman back then.

as for playoff series goats? one might consider Lebrons 2016 where he about singlehandedly took care of a very great GSW team! Quality of oppenent does matter. That GSW team was considerable! I get the recent and fan bias and Lebron is not universally loved.

Does that dilute Jalens performance and place in history? No. His resume lacks the MVP to be honest, he had great season but not all time great. What was what he did in the playoffs! IT was ****ing amazing, he punched the ticket to HOF. Criminal he was denied spot on last olympic team. His career is still being measured so he can climb that ladder still.

He deserves to be in any conversation fans want. Might not be totally accurate but if it makes you happy enjoy it!

IMO MVP has become very narrative driven in recent years. Prior to 1979 it was voted on by the players. Currently the MVP voting system is based on a panel of Broadcaster, Sportswriters and Fan Votes. Because of that there is a certain amount of influence/bias built in due to narratives etc. For instance Clutchpoints did a media survey for 2025-26 MVP and Brunson had minimal points- even Durant finished ahead of him.

While not impossible, Brunson as MVP of the Regular Season is likely improbable. In recent years the same guys seem to top the list (Giannis, Jokic, Shai, w/Tatum and Elmbid prior to injury. Brunson made the Top 5 in 2023-24 - but fell to one sole overall point in 2024-25 and was not even on the board this past season. Consider that Wemby made the list last season (Top 3) and will likely be the next appointed great one. Cade is also waiting in the wings (Top 4 MVP votes last season).

Brunson is our guy in NY and similar to MJ and Kobe - has that "winner" gene built into his brain. Unfortunately this may never translate into an MVP.....but still he will walk among the greats who have ever played at the Mecca.

Also....just my opinion......all things considered...the best big man to play for the Knicks was Ewing. Reed had the luxury of playing with 3 Hall of Famers for the 1970 Championship and then a whopping 6 Hall of Famers for the 1973 Chip. Not sure if I missed anyone but by my count - Ewing in his entire career only played with 2 HOF level players. An aging Mo Cheeks and Doc Rivers.....both for fairly short stays on the Knicks roster. This IMO was the Knicks biggest error.....not surrounding Ewing with one or two other star caliber players at that level and for a sustained period of time.

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grillco wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

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It’s really that simple. Everything changed with him. Arguably the greatest culture-changer in the nba.

Does any of it happen if Leon didn’t know, and I mean KNOW this kid and the man he’d become. He’s the 1st piece on the court, but Rose truly getting the keys was the real change. God bless dolan’s preoccupation w/ the sphere.

TRUTH

That’s literally Jordan’s famous final Bulls championship game — Game 6 in Utah in ’98 — that Brunson matched

And Brunson didn’t just have one monster night. He averaged 32.6 PPG in the Finals, set the Knicks record for points in a Finals game, set the Knicks record for total points in a Finals series (163), and led the entire 2026 playoffs in scoring at 28.4 PPG.

Jordan first chip: 1991 31 pts per game in the finals, finals mvp
Age: 28

Brunsons first chip: 2026 32 pts per game in finals, finals mvp
Age:29

They both uplifted a franchise from dark times

MJ was a household name and lotto pick

Brunson was a second rounder but still like MJ a leader of two college championship teams .

I can’t think of a better comparison for Brunson as a cold blooded winner other than MJ

Now let’s see if Brunson can get us 5 more chips !

fitzfarm wrote:Brunson and MJ have a lot of similarities

That’s literally Jordan’s famous final Bulls championship game — Game 6 in Utah in ’98 — that Brunson matched

And Brunson didn’t just have one monster night. He averaged 32.6 PPG in the Finals, set the Knicks record for points in a Finals game, set the Knicks record for total points in a Finals series (163), and led the entire 2026 playoffs in scoring at 28.4 PPG.

Jordan first chip: 1991 31 pts per game in the finals, finals mvp
Age: 28

Brunsons first chip: 2026 32 pts per game in finals, finals mvp
Age:29

They both uplifted a franchise from dark times

MJ was a household name and lotto pick

Brunson was a second rounder but still like MJ a leader of two college championship teams .

I can’t think of a better comparison for Brunson as a cold blooded winner other than MJ

Now let’s see if Brunson can get us 5 more chips !

To me, this is the heart of the issue. The draft is literally a crap shoot. Many top fives end up being great, but more are just good. Teams draft on perception and need. And the perception of Jalen was waaaaaayyyyyyyyy off.

We've all heard a get the speil:
- too short
- too slow
- not athletic enough

He showed us height wasn't an issue getting past so many guys and shooting over them, including wemby.
If he's "slow" then why couldn't other teams effectively stop him? Are others quicker on the run, sure, but how does that impact his game?
There all different kinds of athletes with different strengths (and weaknesses). Again Brunson's athleticism (or supposed lack thereof) got him Finals MVP.

MJ was hyped and lived up to it. Wemby is currently far more hype than reality. Jalen was like the anti-hype and is turning that into something all his own. One of the best qualities of Jalen, is that you know who the ball is going to and at least through him with a game on the line against the Knicks. However, just like Mo coming out in the 8th and 9th, everyone knew the cut fastball was coming, but so few could touch it. Yeah, it helped that this team gelled so well and the other options showed opponents that you can't sleep on them just to stop Jalen from getting his. Despite this and all of the opposing coaches and players knowing the Knicks would rely on Brunson, they couldn't stop him or the team.

The biggest key going forward is to stop this getting into deep whole crap. The first thing a team will lose is the miracles and heroics. They need to come out strong and dominant (esp. during the playoffs), keep the pressure on, use all the available tools, keep managing the minutes of the starters so they have the gas needed for the season and beyond.

Cheers folks.

But going back to Brunson, his clutch gene is the best I’ve seen since MJ and Kobe. They are obviously different kind of players. MJ and Kobe were athletic freaks, to where Brunson has some of the greatest footwork I’ve ever seen . I don’t think we’ve seen a clutch player like Brunson since MJ, for the first time in at least my life the Knicks put the perfect pieces around him to make the greatest Knick team of my lifetime.

A great team + the best clutch player in the sport, this team can repeat and potentially become a dynasty

Panos wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Agreed, OG and Kat were masterful esp OG . We have a great team! Ewing never had this kind of talent around him .

But going back to Brunson, his clutch gene is the best I’ve seen since MJ and Kobe. They are obviously different kind of players. MJ and Kobe were athletic freaks, to where Brunson has some of the greatest footwork I’ve ever seen . I don’t think we’ve seen a clutch player like Brunson since MJ, for the first time in at least my life the Knicks put the perfect pieces around him to make the greatest Knick team of my lifetime.

A great team + the best clutch player in the sport, this team can repeat and potentially become a dynasty

Not to detract from JB's greatness, but cogent to this discussion about his clutch-ness, people don't mention that he actually MISSED the shot that OG tipped back in.

Sometimes you make um sometimes you miss it’s the mindset that Brunson has where nothing effects him him he wouldn't hesitate to burry that same shot if needed…

Brunson’s awareness to put it up quick knowing his guys were down at the basket while there big man was almost at half court with him . If OG didn’t get that tip towns was right there to do the same .OG had the BBall IQ to crash the board how many guys would have just put there head down disappointed the ball didn’t go to them when they were wide open .

Philc1 wrote:

Panos wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:Agreed, OG and Kat were masterful esp OG . We have a great team! Ewing never had this kind of talent around him .

But going back to Brunson, his clutch gene is the best I’ve seen since MJ and Kobe. They are obviously different kind of players. MJ and Kobe were athletic freaks, to where Brunson has some of the greatest footwork I’ve ever seen . I don’t think we’ve seen a clutch player like Brunson since MJ, for the first time in at least my life the Knicks put the perfect pieces around him to make the greatest Knick team of my lifetime.

A great team + the best clutch player in the sport, this team can repeat and potentially become a dynasty

Not to detract from JB's greatness, but cogent to this discussion about his clutch-ness, people don't mention that he actually MISSED the shot that OG tipped back in.

No one shoots 100%

Obviously.
BUT that was the Clutchiest of Clutch situations, and it would be he cemented forever in that image if he had, in fact, clutched it.