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Game Thread: ECF Game 4 @ Pacers 8PM TNT
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LivingLegend
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5/27/2025  9:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2025  9:59 AM
Chandler wrote:
VDesai wrote:The handsy stuff that Brunson gets called for and Nesmith doesn't get called for is an incredible contrast. Clearly there is an emphasis point here. We just need to be aware of what's happening and deal...

Honest question. Do we need to switch w the pacers. Of course we did w the celts because if Tatum or brown had a fraction of a second advantage they’d shoot. But that doesn’t seem to be the pacers way.

Why can’t we just have KAT and Brunson play man (ie whoever is easiest for them)

IMO the best way for us to control pace is w the pressure on glass created by double bigs. Pacers have to hang back more and fight. Of course hitting shots is ideal because it’s tough to run on made baskets. But our rebounding advantage is more,reliably present than our shooting and it may force pacers to go bigger and slower.

If you don't switch with them you get Kat in drop and Hali eats that stuff up.

If you don't switch with them you end up chasing the ball and bodies all over the court - putting great pressure on rotations.

If you DO switch - you reduce rotations and you make an Indy team that loves ball/player movement and you bait them into going 1 on 1 which isn't their normal play style.

TBH I still don't know what we are doing on D because seems to change by the possession or the particular player. Me personally I would limit the amount Kat/Jalen share the floor significantly. I'd put our best defenders out there surrounding either Jalen or Kat and take our chances. It's really when both Jalen/Kat are on the floor they've killed us.

Saw stat this AM --- Knicks +15 with just Kat on floor, Knicks +10 with just Jalen on the floor, Knicks -20 with both on the floor.
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LivingLegend
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5/27/2025  9:52 AM
VDesai wrote:The handsy stuff that Brunson gets called for and Nesmith doesn't get called for is an incredible contrast. Clearly there is an emphasis point here. We just need to be aware of what's happening and deal...

Yep and same with Kat -- he gets the worst whistle in the league even when he goes strong.
LivingLegend
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5/27/2025  9:55 AM
Chandler wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:Super sub.

If he really wants to break teams he needs to hit open shots and force teams to guard him. He’s had a couple of,those games recently but has looked tight against the pacers

I'm more concerned with his D. Re-watched game last night and during our good run in 4th quarter Josh committed 3 brutal shooting fouls where he never contested the shot but in all 3 cases shoved the offensive player at the hip (mid-section).

Think it was Van Gundy who said these were really bad fouls because he's simply pushing guys rather than contesting without fouling. Each one of those lead to free throws and could have killed our good run.
Chandler
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5/27/2025  9:57 AM
DLeethal wrote:I don’t really see a need for Precious. I think playing the smaller reserves is more important. IMO our wings have been too big to match up with Hali, McConnell, Nesmith, Nembhard. That’s why Deuce has been so critical. Add Wright and Shamet and we can actually match these guys on defense and in speed rotation. No need for Precious unless we’re in foul trouble. KAT can actually guard Siakam well. KATs one on one defense is not the problem.

I see him as subbing for OG when siakam is playimgn. I don’t think Hart is big enough for siakam. Frankly, though I think og is more than strong enough, he’s not long enough for siakam

IMO siakam is clear their second most dangerous offensive weapon behind Hali. And probably their most dangerous pure scorer. Very under rated but he can play. We need to contain him

(5)(7)
LivingLegend
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5/27/2025  9:57 AM
Chandler wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
VDesai wrote:I can't decide whether Precious is playable in this series. Indiana forces you to make quick decisions with the ball. Precious is completely unpredictable offensively. I think his switchability and rebounding could help, but you don't get a reliable performance from him (a little bit like C. Payne). A guy like Wright or even Shamet are basically gonna give you a a consistent effort and are generally gonna stick to what they know they can do offensively.

I like the thought of starting Precious rather than Mitch or Hart -- see if we can hold water and steal maybe 5 minutes at beginning of each half but still keep Mitch coming off bench and also break-up our normal starting line-up with the horrible +/- all playoffs.

We will probably stick to same starting unit -- need to keep Pascal limited (Kat actually was guarding him to start last game and held up).

I think it’s key to play pascal w size. He’s smart and uses his length to his advantage. I agree KAT played him well

I thought they would put Mitch on pascal since pascal went off the prior game. So I was watching the KAT pascal matchup frequently

My concern is Pascal getting some cheap whistles early and Kat going to bench quickly in foul trouble.
VDesai
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5/27/2025  9:59 AM
Pascal is really tough in transition when the defense is off balance. Even if it's not a fast break, but he tends to attack best when the defense is scrambling back and he can get further down hill. Force him to start further out or without momentum towards the basket and he's less dangerous.

There was one fantastic sequence in Game 3 where Deuce got switched onto Pascal and Deuce used his butt to literally force Pascal from 15 feet all the way back out to the 3 pt line before he got the ball. Deuce defended well and turned into a nothing possesion.
LivingLegend
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5/27/2025  10:02 AM
Chandler wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
VDesai wrote:I can't decide whether Precious is playable in this series. Indiana forces you to make quick decisions with the ball. Precious is completely unpredictable offensively. I think his switchability and rebounding could help, but you don't get a reliable performance from him (a little bit like C. Payne). A guy like Wright or even Shamet are basically gonna give you a a consistent effort and are generally gonna stick to what they know they can do offensively.

I like the thought of starting Precious rather than Mitch or Hart -- see if we can hold water and steal maybe 5 minutes at beginning of each half but still keep Mitch coming off bench and also break-up our normal starting line-up with the horrible +/- all playoffs.

We will probably stick to same starting unit -- need to keep Pascal limited (Kat actually was guarding him to start last game and held up).

I think it’s key to play pascal w size. He’s smart and uses his length to his advantage. I agree KAT played him well

I thought they would put Mitch on pascal since pascal went off the prior game. So I was watching the KAT pascal matchup frequently

Mitch gets too hyped and out of control matching up vs a good player. Yes he has some success but I'm more comfortable with him as an off ball contester/helper vs having him go 1 v 1 against Siakim.

Not saying he can't do it just scares me watching him flailing around out there.
TheGame
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5/27/2025  10:05 AM
Another must win game 7. Go Knicks!!! Brunson take care of the ball. Stop the bad passes, and Bridges please hit a 3 this game or else stop taking them and go to your mid-range game. Everybody else, bring what you brought last game, and let's get KAT more involved in the first half.
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LivingLegend
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5/27/2025  10:05 AM
Hoping Todd pics don't disappoint and leave us wanting more in such a big playoff game but preparing myself for disappointment.
Chandler
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5/27/2025  10:13 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
Chandler wrote:
VDesai wrote:The handsy stuff that Brunson gets called for and Nesmith doesn't get called for is an incredible contrast. Clearly there is an emphasis point here. We just need to be aware of what's happening and deal...

Honest question. Do we need to switch w the pacers. Of course we did w the celts because if Tatum or brown had a fraction of a second advantage they’d shoot. But that doesn’t seem to be the pacers way.

Why can’t we just have KAT and Brunson play man (ie whoever is easiest for them)

IMO the best way for us to control pace is w the pressure on glass created by double bigs. Pacers have to hang back more and fight. Of course hitting shots is ideal because it’s tough to run on made baskets. But our rebounding advantage is more,reliably present than our shooting and it may force pacers to go bigger and slower.

If you don't switch with them you get Kat in drop and Hali eats that stuff up.

If you don't switch with them you end up chasing the ball and bodies all over the court - putting great pressure on rotations.

If you DO switch - you reduce rotations and you make an Indy team that loves ball/player movement and you bait them into going 1 on 1 which isn't their normal play style.

TBH I still don't know what we are doing on D because seems to change by the possession or the particular player. Me personally I would limit the amount Kat/Jalen share the floor significantly. I'd put our best defenders out there surrounding either Jalen or Kat and take our chances. It's really when both Jalen/Kat are on the floor they've killed us.

Saw stat this AM --- Knicks +15 with just Kat on floor, Knicks +10 with just Jalen on the floor, Knicks -20 with both on the floor.

Thanks. I saw a similar stat and that’s why I was asking the question. I assumed it was because pacers were hunting, and thatbhunting implied we were switching into unfavorable matchups.

But then I was wondering if we’re playing pacers as if they were the celts and they’re not

I don’t have the answer for D but it does bother me tremendously that we’d be intentionally sitting tremendously gifted offensive players.

(5)(7)
martin
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5/27/2025  10:27 AM
VDesai wrote:Bridges has a terrible +/- this series. The start of quarters has been tough. Bridges shooting has been brutal in the beginning of games. If he can start out hitting a few corner 3's, making those mid rangers, it would be a major boost.

I hate to say it, because I hate his game (think he fouls four times on every possession), but Nesmith playing or not is a tipping point. Mathurin, for whatever reason, has been absolutely horrible, and Nesmith has murdered us. If that's the lineup swap today, that could make a huge difference. I think Carlisle actually is more likely to play Shephard over Mathurin. He trusts Shephard more defensively.

I do think Wright probably gets the minutes over Payne now. Does Shamet get to crack the lineup again? I think he held up reasonably well on defense and he offers some shooting that we've been lacking all playoffs. Mikal and OG have been playing 40+ every game, it may be crucial to keep them fresh.

The biggest difference has been McBride. A confident, healthy McBride offers scoring punch and in your face defense. Having a 2nd ballhandler in the game to stop the press is also a key to keeping the Pacers from dictating the game.

Pacers were horrible in the halfcourt in Game 3. They didn't shoot well from 3, but the Knicks were able to force fewer attempts. When the Pacers were playing slower the Knicks were able to get back in the game. They did murder us in transition...we have to take care of the ball.

When KAT gets defensive rebounds we can impose our will on the game. He was terrific on the glass for much of the beginning of the year, but his impact faded in the 2nd half and playoffs...last game in addition to scoring he was gobbling up every rebound for a stretch of the 4th.

Mikal needs to do some layup lines before he does the team layup lines.

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martin
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5/27/2025  10:29 AM
Chandler wrote:
MaTT4281 wrote:Just like Sunday, we're playing another game 7 tonight.

More of this please.

This should eventually be a sweatshirt

Or free areas of the butt cheeks

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martin
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5/27/2025  10:37 AM
LivingLegend wrote:Oh and cut down on the unforced TOs - Jalen has been super sloppy and Kat with 6 TOs last game.

Take care of the rock boys.

Knicks are down 2-1 and were a Brunson TO or KAT/OG FT away from being up 2-1 where Brunson has been brutal on both ends of the court for at least 2 of those games. 17 total assists on 13 TO's for the series? Very unBrunson'esque.

And the team is shooting horribly from 3 point land against their norm, I think. KAT/OG shooting very well but Brunson, Deuce, Mikal, Payne are all between 20-30% and a lot of them pretty wide open it seems.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2025-nba-eastern-conference-finals-pacers-vs-knicks.html

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DLeethal
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5/27/2025  10:40 AM
We really need Mikal to hit a shot before halftime today. Taking the first half under for Mikal has probably been a money bet.
GustavBahler
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5/27/2025  12:53 PM
The expanded rotation was out of necessity. The question is will Wright and Shamet get buried on the bench again? We won because Thibs gave his bench an opportunity. Will there be others? IDK. If there aren’t, I doubt we win another game. Couldn’t win the first two at home. But I’d love to be proven wrong.
martin
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5/27/2025  1:15 PM
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fishmike
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5/27/2025  1:26 PM
GustavBahler wrote:The expanded rotation was out of necessity. The question is will Wright and Shamet get buried on the bench again? We won because Thibs gave his bench an opportunity. Will there be others? IDK. If there aren’t, I doubt we win another game. Couldn’t win the first two at home. But I’d love to be proven wrong.
bench has always had an opportunity. The big "opportunity" in this game was giving Shamet 11 minutes. Bridges poor shooting surely helped with that.

As for the other adjustments stubborn old Thibs went with what he's most comfortable with and that is defense. He went big, got almost 30 minutes from Mitch, played Josh 30+ off the bench and benched Payne (2-10 in the series) for the better defensive player in Wright.

People act like suddenly Thibs is playing a bench and caving to internet pressure. He played Shamet for 11 minutes. Benched Payne for Wright and juggled the line up to keep Brunson/KAT together less. He was in an 0-2 hole. Having a healthy Mitch is huge.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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5/27/2025  1:28 PM
to me key to the game is simple... force them to grind in the halfcourt for every possession and we win. Let them get out into space where they attack the rim or shred you with a quick drive and dish game and that's how they have the best offense in the playoffs.

Slow it down. Take care of the ball and work the glass first and foremost.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
ToddTT
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5/27/2025  1:36 PM
LivingLegend wrote:Hoping Todd pics don't disappoint and leave us wanting more in such a big playoff game but preparing myself for disappointment.

Wise man!

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
DLeethal
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5/27/2025  1:43 PM
fishmike wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:The expanded rotation was out of necessity. The question is will Wright and Shamet get buried on the bench again? We won because Thibs gave his bench an opportunity. Will there be others? IDK. If there aren’t, I doubt we win another game. Couldn’t win the first two at home. But I’d love to be proven wrong.
bench has always had an opportunity. The big "opportunity" in this game was giving Shamet 11 minutes. Bridges poor shooting surely helped with that.

As for the other adjustments stubborn old Thibs went with what he's most comfortable with and that is defense. He went big, got almost 30 minutes from Mitch, played Josh 30+ off the bench and benched Payne (2-10 in the series) for the better defensive player in Wright.

People act like suddenly Thibs is playing a bench and caving to internet pressure. He played Shamet for 11 minutes. Benched Payne for Wright and juggled the line up to keep Brunson/KAT together less. He was in an 0-2 hole. Having a healthy Mitch is huge.

According to Josh, it sounds like this move was almost made before game 6 against BOS. It's reasonable to see why, after not making the move and winning by 40+ in game 6, they decided to stick with the legacy rotation a couple more games until they fell down 0-2 and got desperate.
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