blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.

Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.

But most would agree with you.

FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.

If we lose in the second round again, it might not be the trade but the coach. Not predicting anything, just have to see what happens.

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.

Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.

But most would agree with you.

FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.

If we lose in the second round again, it might not be the trade but the coach. Not predicting anything, just have to see what happens.

Fire Thibs thread?

Don’t think that’s fair. One, Team is still coming together but can’t say we are complete.
Still have some holes to fill. Hopefully another scorer off the bench and MR back is enough.

Two, Saying it’s the coaches fault is too easy. Everyone hyping up how good we are after a win over the Wolves and then blaming coach if those players lay eggs in the playoffs would be weak.

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.

Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.

But most would agree with you.

FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.

It absolutely will be a wash in terms of trade if we lose in the second.
Everyone pilling on Randle is a couple of things:
The Wolves chose to rebuild and let go of one of its “Franchise” players. Knicks chose to go “All In” and “Win Now” with a 60M contract, gave up the remainder of their valued picks, tradeable assets and paid OG big money. Anyone on here claiming they would be okay with a second round loss because” we got better” is not being honest.

The argument for Randle has ALWAYS been was he worth more than two second round picks, was he the first All Star level player that came here and helped turn things around. Not if he was capable of single handedly taking a team to conference finals or if he was a high IQ player.

The argument for KAT will always be, is he worth the salary a team has to commit to him. Not if he is a good player. So yes, with our current commitment to salaries and loss of assets, I will be pissed if we lose in first or second round.

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.

Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.

But most would agree with you.

FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.

If we lose in the second round again, it might not be the trade but the coach. Not predicting anything, just have to see what happens.

Fire Thibs thread?

Don’t think that’s fair. One, Team is still coming together but can’t say we are complete.
Still have some holes to fill. Hopefully another scorer off the bench and MR back is enough.

Two, Saying it’s the coaches fault is too easy. Everyone hyping up how good we are after a win over the Wolves and then blaming coach if those players lay eggs in the playoffs would be weak.

Reflexively giving any coach a pass, months before the playoffs, for an early exit, is weak.Especially with all the talent on this roster. Still a lot of games to play, more trades might be made as well. We dont know who we will be playing, the team we face might have their own roster issues, like injuries for example, anything could happen.

All I did was raise the possibility that a second round loss might be due to something other than the roster, and just the roster. That Thibs might get outcoached in the playoffs. Not the certainty that a loss will have to do with coaching, only the possibility.

As I said, we have to see how things play out, not assigning blame in advance. Nothing biased about that.

I'm not going to slam Randle- I do think he's got his issues, but I feel like he brought grit and maybe some grind attitude that we're missing.

I keep seeing things with this team that confuse me. We were out worked by Atlanta in that Cup game and barely beat a barely more than G League Hornets and Orlando minus multiple stars.

And then we go and wipe out a Minny that was playing really decent ball.

I guess one question is - thinking about the off season:

If we had been able to keep iHart, would you rather have run it back, adding Bridges, keeping DDV & Randle with iHart - or, still trading Randle & DDV for Kat?

ToddTT wrote:

franco12 wrote:I keep forgetting- and I think we all are on this thread- that we basically lost iHart for nothing, and much of the rationale, I think, for getting Towns, was to fill that gap, as well as solidify cap position vis a vis the main core that the Knicks have established.

I'm not going to slam Randle- I do think he's got his issues, but I feel like he brought grit and maybe some grind attitude that we're missing.

I keep seeing things with this team that confuse me. We were out worked by Atlanta in that Cup game and barely beat a barely more than G League Hornets and Orlando minus multiple stars.

And then we go and wipe out a Minny that was playing really decent ball.

I guess one question is - thinking about the off season:

If we had been able to keep iHart, would you rather have run it back, adding Bridges, keeping DDV & Randle with iHart - or, still trading Randle & DDV for Kat?

iHart and Mitch are the reasons Towns is here.

January's team was a buzz saw.

Oh, and a m***er ****er named Jaime.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.

Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.

But most would agree with you.

FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.

If we lose in the second round again, it might not be the trade but the coach. Not predicting anything, just have to see what happens.

Fire Thibs thread?

Don’t think that’s fair. One, Team is still coming together but can’t say we are complete.
Still have some holes to fill. Hopefully another scorer off the bench and MR back is enough.

Two, Saying it’s the coaches fault is too easy. Everyone hyping up how good we are after a win over the Wolves and then blaming coach if those players lay eggs in the playoffs would be weak.

Reflexively giving any coach a pass, months before the playoffs, for an early exit, is weak.Especially with all the talent on this roster. Still a lot of games to play, more trades might be made as well. We dont know who we will be playing, the team we face might have their own roster issues, like injuries for example, anything could happen.

All I did was raise the possibility that a second round loss might be due to something other than the roster, and just the roster. That Thibs might get outcoached in the playoffs. Not the certainty that a loss will have to do with coaching, only the possibility.

As I said, we have to see how things play out, not assigning blame in advance. Nothing biased about that.

You know what’s weaker? Making up some scenario about a second round loss and reflexively making an assumption about who is the culprit.

Knicks had a pretty badass team last January and we still lost in the second round but it was a glorious run. Cause stuff happens.

Do you guys just harp on end of world scenarios? I don’t get that

Thats stupid, because I only said that Thibs might get outcoached in a potential second round loss, not that he will. It might not be about the roster and nothing else. Which was the only scenario offered upthread for an early exit.

Good coaches sometimes get outcoached, happens all the time. Not to acknowledge this fact is silly.

Last season we went into the playoffs very shorthanded. Thibs did a good job. If we dont have the same injury issues as last season, and we still lose in the second round to a Cavs or Celtics squad. Maybe who are missing one or more important pieces due to injury. Maybe just maybe we got outcoached. Xs and Os.

You are stating flat out that there is no way Thibs can get outcoached in the playoffs when you wont even acknowledge that he just might face a better coach early in the playoffs. Not that he will, that he might.

I didn’t state anything. You can leave your words out of mine.

You don’t really have a good grasp of how coaching decisions are made. This is not a whim level thing, as you infer.

This is just you not really understanding how someone like Leon makes decisions.

GustavBahler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.

Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.

But most would agree with you.

FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.

If we lose in the second round again, it might not be the trade but the coach. Not predicting anything, just have to see what happens.

Fire Thibs thread?

Don’t think that’s fair. One, Team is still coming together but can’t say we are complete.
Still have some holes to fill. Hopefully another scorer off the bench and MR back is enough.

Two, Saying it’s the coaches fault is too easy. Everyone hyping up how good we are after a win over the Wolves and then blaming coach if those players lay eggs in the playoffs would be weak.

Reflexively giving any coach a pass, months before the playoffs, for an early exit, is weak.Especially with all the talent on this roster. Still a lot of games to play, more trades might be made as well. We dont know who we will be playing, the team we face might have their own roster issues, like injuries for example, anything could happen.

All I did was raise the possibility that a second round loss might be due to something other than the roster, and just the roster. That Thibs might get outcoached in the playoffs. Not the certainty that a loss will have to do with coaching, only the possibility.

As I said, we have to see how things play out, not assigning blame in advance. Nothing biased about that.

That’s fair. Guess you would have to wait and see how it plays out.
Will be clear if key guys disappear. Aka, not coaches fault.
Feel that in basketball, the coaches job is to have a team ready, prepared and One that has bought in to its system. Thibs has always shown to have his teams extremely prepared. Many of his players have always emphasized that. The rest is up to the 5 main players to perform. Especially ones which have been touted as some of the best in the league.

We are not talking football where there is a large number of offensive plays and defensive schemes which are crucial for success.

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Macri brought up good point Of Randle put up 50 points and the Wolves won by 20, would you have said the Knicks lost the trade? The answer is no. It's a long season. I think KAT's overall offensive efficiency this already season speaks volumes. If the Knicks end up winning 50 games and losing in the second round will that change your mind into thinking the trade was a mistake? There are still moves to be made. That said I'm just glad to see the team improve as the season goes on.

Nope…not for me…Always looked at Randle as addition by subtraction long term move. So any short term performance he puts up, I was one of the few saying “Can we trade him now?”…….lol. As we can see he’s the same player. When he adapts and reduces his bully style he’s a roll player at best. He needs to be a black hole to justify his worth. Kat already got his money. And he’s the opposite of a black hole. Makes quick decisions even when shooting bad 3s. They are quick moves.

But most would agree with you.

FOR ME…….Even if it’s a neutral move and we still can’t get out of 2nd round this move increases our ceiling more to eventually get there.

If we lose in the second round again, it might not be the trade but the coach. Not predicting anything, just have to see what happens.

You know you can’t talk about Thibs without getting backlash. Even in a Fire Thibs threads 😂 🤣.

Thibs has and will get out coached. We know this from history. And I’m on record saying Thibs was great to get us this far, but maybe we need someone else to take us further. That was then, now the question is, there’s no Thibs replacement that takes us over the edge. We can only hope his staff enlighten and prepare him if he’s being out coached. Leon may have tied his fate to Thibs and Towns at this point. He hasnt done us wrong yet.

My issue is not with our team but the other teams. Celtics for example have more chemistry now than before. Same with cavs. I’m we lose to either of those teams, and it’s a good series, I don’t think there’s anything else to do that’s major next season. We can only hope team chemistry increases next season. I see this as a 3-4 yr window. So losing in the second in year 1 shouldn’t raise any alarms especially if we lose to a top contender. Now getting swept by a bottom team with a healthy roster? That’s a different discussion. But I’m optimistic this season and think we have something good here. I’m just enjoying it. I remember the dark years, which is why I appreciate the light. #Leonforpresident

franco12 wrote:I keep forgetting- and I think we all are on this thread- that we basically lost iHart for nothing, and much of the rationale, I think, for getting Towns, was to fill that gap, as well as solidify cap position vis a vis the main core that the Knicks have established.

I'm not going to slam Randle- I do think he's got his issues, but I feel like he brought grit and maybe some grind attitude that we're missing.

I keep seeing things with this team that confuse me. We were out worked by Atlanta in that Cup game and barely beat a barely more than G League Hornets and Orlando minus multiple stars.

And then we go and wipe out a Minny that was playing really decent ball.

I guess one question is - thinking about the off season:

If we had been able to keep iHart, would you rather have run it back, adding Bridges, keeping DDV & Randle with iHart - or, still trading Randle & DDV for Kat?

We miss Ihart, and I would have 100% still done both trades and then moved Mitch to stay under the second apron, if we were able to bring back Hartenstein. It would be the perfect team with hartenstein playing some next to KAT while also covering the non-KAT center minutes. As for the KAT trade, it was a homerun because it eliminated the Randle controversy (both in terms of building a great team with him as a main piece and the contract issues) and we probably sold high on Donte. I miss what he brought to this team, but he was going to come off the bench and clearly he’s not thrilled with the role in Minnesota and probably wasn’t going to be here too. He may have played better here than Minnesota this year, but we most likely got his career year out of him. The Bridges deal will never be a homerun because it was understood as an overpay, but the KAT trade makes up for it being the homerun that it is.

Most of these teams we blew out sucks. And the losses we’ve had against teams that sucks was terrible. Against the Celtics and cavs we looked horrible. But maybe this 2 game winning streak lit a 🔥 for us to go on a run.