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Good chance we get either Brogdon or Bruce Brown
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Knixkik
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Which do you prefer ? Both carry similar contracts for one more season after this. Similar size. Brogdon is more of a lead guard but brown has PG experience and sort of fits the do-it-all role Hart also has. Both can play minutes at multiple positions. Brogdon can score but is older and more injury prone. Value/ cost is probably similar. Fournier plus grimes and/or some draft compensation. Without grimes it’s probably a more valuable first round pick. With grimes it’s probably no pick or a lower value first round pick or seconds. Obviously we can’t overpay. Both players are proven in bench roles. 2 of the very best 6th men last season. Brown is CAA and Knicks liked him this summer. Brogdon is Klutch but Knicks have a good trading history with Portland (hart trade.) just seem like both players make the most sense for how the Knicks operate trade wise.
Bruce Brown
Malcolm Brogdon
Neither
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BigDaddyG
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1/21/2024  4:15 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
TheMTL wrote:Forgot to add Dejounte Murray as a poll option lol

Don't want him. DDV provides more of what's needed in the SL (3point %) While neither is a good fit from the bench. DDV off the bench needs a creator which we have none of in the 2nd unit while an All&Star DJM I doubt wants a bench role. Even tho he would be ideal for a bench role for us. Even more than what we need from a lead guard from the bench.


Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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GustavBahler
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1/21/2024  6:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2024  6:31 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
TheMTL wrote:Forgot to add Dejounte Murray as a poll option lol

Don't want him. DDV provides more of what's needed in the SL (3point %) While neither is a good fit from the bench. DDV off the bench needs a creator which we have none of in the 2nd unit while an All&Star DJM I doubt wants a bench role. Even tho he would be ideal for a bench role for us. Even more than what we need from a lead guard from the bench.


I knew DDV was playing well enough to be a legitimate starter, not a stopgap. But damn, didnt know his numbers were that good. Great signing by the FO, at a great price.
Nalod
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1/22/2024  8:25 AM
DDV really has been an incredible signing. I get lookinng at his stat lines in his career why he did not command a bigger pay day but in the moment who had the money and the slot to play matters. The Villinova thing IM sure has some thing to do with it.
His MP and numbers are not great this season but they are TRENDING UP! HE had a rough start coming off the bench at the beginning of the season. If Grimes is a trade chip in demand and we can get more solid production in the here and NOW mode we in, I suppose this is where we go.

If the price of EF, GRimes and TWo first rounds are too rich for DJM it stands to reason DDV play might have something to do with it. I dont’ see how you pay a guy like DJM and not start him. Thats just me. Sending DDV to the bench is logical and perhaps keeping his minutes under 25 is the goal to maintain his legs? Lets face it, he is here on that deal for a reason?
OK, perhaps Knicks want AJ griffin in return as a sort of project. Injuries happen and if Brunson needs time he comes in at the two?
DDV and Deuce need time to gel on the second unit and lock **** down with Josh.

Or………..

We sit tight and let Grimes get his mojo back with Deuce and run with what we got. I trust Leon and Company to do wth right thing.
nycericanguy
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1/22/2024  8:30 AM
DDV has been great, but I do think he's one of those guys that's best in a limited role. If you play him 32mpg his numbers don't extrapolate IMO.

Same with Obi... and so far IQ is showing that maybe 6th man was his best role as well...sometimes a more limited, pick your spots role is best for certain guys.

DDV is a starter by definition but he's really playing bench player min.
GustavBahler
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1/22/2024  8:55 AM
DDV probably wont put up those numbers with the second unit. If thats the case you have to ask yourself which player is worth giving up

#1 in steal percentage.
#3 in EFG %
#4 in PER
#3 in NET rating
#3 in TS%
#4 in Points per 36 played
#3 in 3PT %

My answer is definitely not any of the names that have been mentioned. Booker, or a player close to his level, is the kind of player who is good enough to send DDV to the bench. He checks way too many boxes to F up the chemistry, unless there is an elite player ready to step in.

Im surprised that you can watch DDV play, look at those numbers, and not want to see how he does as the starting SG in the playoffs. Before hoping the FO makes a move.

We might find that DDV isnt the weak link. We still have to see how Randle performs. Thats the elephant in the room.

I would be happy with Murray as a 6th man, even at 20 plus mill a year. You cant build a team according to contracts, when the starting lineup is exceeding all expectations, winning games, with an underperforming bench. Doesnt make sense.

Murray would have the freedom to get buckets with the 2nd unit, that he wouldnt with the starters.. We bring Mitch off the bench (this season anyway) add Murray or Brown. There is a second unit that should pull its weight.
EwingPSD
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1/22/2024  8:58 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:Hard pass on Bruce Brown at 20M.

He’s another guy where the $20M is viewed as a positive because he can be used in larger summer trade - in summer $20M better than say $5M

Yep, Brown was an overpay. Both Brow and the Pacers knew it. That's why it is essentially a one-year deal. The Pacers also knew that he was the type of player who is never a negative and who on an expiring contract could be used in a trade. Make no mistake about it though Brown is more a MLE type than a guy worth 22 a year. He is a lesser version of Josh Hart and Josh Hart is probably slightly overpaid. He never going to hurt you but if the team has a choice b/t these two the choice should be clear. Malcolm though hurt a lot is the better player.
EwingPSD
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1/22/2024  9:02 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
TheMTL wrote:Forgot to add Dejounte Murray as a poll option lol

Don't want him. DDV provides more of what's needed in the SL (3point %) While neither is a good fit from the bench. DDV off the bench needs a creator which we have none of in the 2nd unit while an All&Star DJM I doubt wants a bench role. Even tho he would be ideal for a bench role for us. Even more than what we need from a lead guard from the bench.


I knew DDV was playing well enough to be a legitimate starter, not a stopgap. But damn, didnt know his numbers were that good. Great signing by the FO, at a great price.

Those aren't league ranks. I'm guessing on the team (probably including IQ and RJ). Anyway he's been WAY better than I expected and so far is a steal but he is averaging 18 per 36. That's good. it's not 4th in the NBA or anywhere near it
GustavBahler
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1/22/2024  9:09 AM
EwingPSD wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
TheMTL wrote:Forgot to add Dejounte Murray as a poll option lol

Don't want him. DDV provides more of what's needed in the SL (3point %) While neither is a good fit from the bench. DDV off the bench needs a creator which we have none of in the 2nd unit while an All&Star DJM I doubt wants a bench role. Even tho he would be ideal for a bench role for us. Even more than what we need from a lead guard from the bench.


I knew DDV was playing well enough to be a legitimate starter, not a stopgap. But damn, didnt know his numbers were that good. Great signing by the FO, at a great price.

Those aren't league ranks. I'm guessing on the team (probably including IQ and RJ). Anyway he's been WAY better than I expected and so far is a steal but he is averaging 18 per 36. That's good. it's not 4th in the NBA or anywhere near it

Thanks for the info. It still shows that DDV is playing like a starter. Believe it would be a mistake to bench DDV when Thibs and the FO would have been thrilled if Grimes were putting up those numbers in the starting unit.

DDV is playing how we wish Grimes had, but suddenly thats not good enough.
Knixkik
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1/22/2024  9:35 AM
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:Hard pass on Bruce Brown at 20M.

He’s another guy where the $20M is viewed as a positive because he can be used in larger summer trade - in summer $20M better than say $5M

Exactly right. His contract would be a valuable placeholder for a star deal. Knicks don’t want to be forced to put hart and DDV into a deal for a star. They need a brown or Brogdon expiring contract.
BigDaddyG
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1/22/2024  10:06 AM
GustavBahler wrote:
EwingPSD wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
TheMTL wrote:Forgot to add Dejounte Murray as a poll option lol

Don't want him. DDV provides more of what's needed in the SL (3point %) While neither is a good fit from the bench. DDV off the bench needs a creator which we have none of in the 2nd unit while an All&Star DJM I doubt wants a bench role. Even tho he would be ideal for a bench role for us. Even more than what we need from a lead guard from the bench.


I knew DDV was playing well enough to be a legitimate starter, not a stopgap. But damn, didnt know his numbers were that good. Great signing by the FO, at a great price.

Those aren't league ranks. I'm guessing on the team (probably including IQ and RJ). Anyway he's been WAY better than I expected and so far is a steal but he is averaging 18 per 36. That's good. it's not 4th in the NBA or anywhere near it

Thanks for the info. It still shows that DDV is playing like a starter. Believe it would be a mistake to bench DDV when Thibs and the FO would have been thrilled if Grimes were putting up those numbers in the starting unit.

DDV is playing how we wish Grimes had, but suddenly thats not good enough.


Yeah, it's only within the context of the team. Still, those numbers still standout. DDV ranks even higher when you just limit the list to rotation players. For instance, Evil Donte averages a bit more points per 36 than Donte (even though his shooting percentages are bad).
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
VDesai
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1/22/2024  10:09 AM
Think the Bruce Brown rumors are literally reporter inferences. He was traded to Toronto who obviously doesn't need him/ is not a core piece. Knicks had some interest in signing him in the offseason (but he was well out of their budget). Ok lets put 2 and 2 together and speculate that the Knicks may have interest. Its fair to do, but I don't think this a real rumor.

Brown is a ballhandler/ball mover the same way Hart is. He's not a true point guard/alternative ball handler. What does he do well? He rebounds well for a guard, he hustles, he gets up in peoples faces on defense, he isn't a great shooter, but he occasionally can provide a scoring outburst, he helps make your 5 on the floor work better by filling in gaps. Sound familiar?
DLeethal
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1/22/2024  11:03 AM
Honestly didn't realize Brown had a short term deal with a TO like that. I get it now and see why they would do it. Trading Fournier and an asset for Brown is like trading a first for a couple later picks the following year. Kicking the can down the road a bit because the trade you want isn't there yet.
ToddTT
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1/22/2024  6:23 PM
Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
homeskillitprigioni
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1/22/2024  7:01 PM
I choose Brown because if I saw it right, Brogdon is signed for next year and Brown we can option out of. I would take Brown for that flexibility.
Knixkik
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1/22/2024  7:02 PM
ToddTT wrote:

This is pretty accurate. Obviously what they described is what they already have him Hart but Knicks can still use him. Now they can use a lead guard or scoring guard like Brogdon more, but I certainly wouldn’t write brown off just because he’s a little overlapping. But like everything it comes down to cost.
Knixkik
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1/22/2024  7:04 PM
DLeethal wrote:Honestly didn't realize Brown had a short term deal with a TO like that. I get it now and see why they would do it. Trading Fournier and an asset for Brown is like trading a first for a couple later picks the following year. Kicking the can down the road a bit because the trade you want isn't there yet.

Yeah that’s sort of the idea. And he should have some more value than Fournier because he fits on pretty much any team in the league. He’s a quality all around player who is only 27 so the value should hold.
nycericanguy
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1/22/2024  7:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/22/2024  7:11 PM
DLeethal wrote:Honestly didn't realize Brown had a short term deal with a TO like that. I get it now and see why they would do it. Trading Fournier and an asset for Brown is like trading a first for a couple later picks the following year. Kicking the can down the road a bit because the trade you want isn't there yet.

we already traded 3 assets for OG though, now trading a 4th asset along with Evan... I mean what superstar are we getting with an offer centered around Grimes and whatever picks we have left over?

I feel like DJM is the ceiling for the type of player you can get for that kind of offer.
Alpha1971
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1/26/2024  6:30 AM
I don't know anything about Brown's style of play. He made a g eat impact on the Nuggets team last season but I don't pretend to know how. I have read here Brown is a duplicate of Josh Hart but is that so ? If the team got him can he help the bench offense can he create his own shot ? What are his talents ?
Panos
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1/26/2024  7:40 AM
Knixkik wrote:
LivingLegend wrote:
DLeethal wrote:Hard pass on Bruce Brown at 20M.
He;s another guy where the $20M is viewed as a positive because he can be used in larger summer trade - in summer $20M better than say $5M
Exactly right. His contract would be a valuable placeholder for a star deal. Knicks dont want to be forced to put hart and DDV into a deal for a star. They need a brown or Brogdon expiring contract.

Isaiah Thomas lives!

HofstraBBall
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1/26/2024  8:09 AM
Only concern....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blazersedge.com/platform/amp/2024/1/25/24051061/portland-trail-blazers-latest-injury-report-san-antonio-spurs-malcolm-brogdon-shaedon-sharpe

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Good chance we get either Brogdon or Bruce Brown
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