NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Can someone explain how a player who is best as a role player and who is only putting up numbers because of his high shot count on a bad team is worth ALL those assets?

You said "Mitchell gives BKN a legitimate star they can build an offense around, who is far more apt in that regard than Bridges". That is EXACTLY why we would not give up that much for anyone but him. Or another TRUE game changer.

You mentioned the "muscle memory fit". We already have that in Devo, who just put up 38 and is fitting seamlessly with SL.

Bridges best role is as a role player. Do agree that he would be an upgrade for defense. And that it is my only concern in pairing JB with DM. But ee need a legitimate 1, top 20, "finisher". I would wait till the summer and see what happens with the DM situation. Good chance if he says he is not extending and wants to come to NY, we get him at a discount. Or we get Murray at reasonable cost. Giving up that many assets for Bridges is the desperate, short sighted move of Knicks past.

Are we really giving up all that much? I think it's hard to argue that Quentin Grimes is a better player or option than Mikal (even with cost as a factor). I'm a major McBride-optimist but he's expendable with a guy like Jalen Brunson already on the team and an excess of potential backup guards available. I'm also a big fan of Jirecho Sims but we already have our pivots in Mitchell Robinson and Isiah Hartenstein; with Precious Acuhiaw and Taj Gibson able to fill in in a pinch...and a possible Joel Embiid looming. Parting with the picks hurt BUT our 2032 first will become available to trade right after this 2024 draft. So what are we losing that is essential?

You kinda of answered it here. We would be giving up enough and adding enough salary to prevent us from going after TRUE elite players. Ie. Embid, DM.
But as you suggested, essentially we would give up 3 firsts and 2 seconds. Grimes considered a first and sims and Deuce seconds. Why not keep those for someone who can truly get us over the second round hump?

MS wrote:They gave up a fortune

Cavaliers receive:

Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:

Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen - 23.2pts, 8.6rbs 48% - allstar
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick

They will want the house here, an all star, a nice rope player, 3 1st and 2 swaps is bananas.

Circumstance were different. When factoring in contract lengths.
The Cavs are and will be in a much worse position given DM can arguably walk with nothing gained in return.

Donovan has been a really really good soldier for the Cavs via the media as far as I can tell, he says all the right things when asked about his situation.

You can build and sell your team around Donovan in a way you cannot with Mikal, he just doesn't have that personality.

Donovan will have to pick between Brooklyn and the Knicks.

Can you imagine a situation where both Cleveland and Brooklyn miss the playoffs? That's a boiling pot situation for both franchise FO's.

Plus stuff like this

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/Dolan_J_Trump/status/1742536487818707373

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/KnicksMuse/status/1742567335448211559

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues.

I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.

Excellent point. Wizards could use a facilitator...and tank commander for next season. Unfortunately, they won't have cap space or bad contracts of their own to take Simmons outright without compensation. And I think the Nets will need to hang onto those picks to acquire the talent they need to build around Mitchell. How do we split the baby and get Simmons to WAS?

I thought you could have 2 players with that designation on one team?

Who else besides Simmons has one for Brooklyn?

You can only have 1 homegrown and 1 traded player on Designated Rookie Extensions (e.g. Garland and Mitchell). So, they can't have both Mitchell and Simmons as both would have been traded for.

Learn something new every day. DONE

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues.

I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.

Excellent point. Wizards could use a facilitator...and tank commander for next season. Unfortunately, they won't have cap space or bad contracts of their own to take Simmons outright without compensation. And I think the Nets will need to hang onto those picks to acquire the talent they need to build around Mitchell. How do we split the baby and get Simmons to WAS?

I thought you could have 2 players with that designation on one team?

Who else besides Simmons has one for Brooklyn?

You can only have 1 homegrown and 1 traded player on Designated Rookie Extensions (e.g. Garland and Mitchell). So, they can't have both Mitchell and Simmons as both would have been traded for.

Did'nt that change in the new CBA or something?

I did a quick search and it did change.

"All rookie extensions can now go up to five seasons, not just the designated rookie-scale extension. There also will no longer be a limit on how many designated extension players a team may roster. Extend-and-trade contracts will be able to go up to a total of four years and 120 percent of the prior salary, beginning with the 2024-25 salary-cap year."

https://theathletic.com/4607105/2023/06/28/nba-cba-new-rules/

Clean wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues.

I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.

Excellent point. Wizards could use a facilitator...and tank commander for next season. Unfortunately, they won't have cap space or bad contracts of their own to take Simmons outright without compensation. And I think the Nets will need to hang onto those picks to acquire the talent they need to build around Mitchell. How do we split the baby and get Simmons to WAS?

I thought you could have 2 players with that designation on one team?

Who else besides Simmons has one for Brooklyn?

You can only have 1 homegrown and 1 traded player on Designated Rookie Extensions (e.g. Garland and Mitchell). So, they can't have both Mitchell and Simmons as both would have been traded for.

Did'nt that change in the new CBA or something?

I did a quick search and it did change.

"All rookie extensions can now go up to five seasons, not just the designated rookie-scale extension. There also will no longer be a limit on how many designated extension players a team may roster. Extend-and-trade contracts will be able to go up to a total of four years and 120 percent of the prior salary, beginning with the 2024-25 salary-cap year."

https://theathletic.com/4607105/2023/06/28/nba-cba-new-rules/

Now I have to learn again in the same day?

BigDaddyG wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Nets cannot obtain Mitchell on this contract unless they move Simmons. Designated Rookie Extension issues.

I think the Nets need to package Simmons and Phoenix picks for a functional player. He is an expiring next year. I don't think we have the capacity to absorb Simmon's contract and take back picks, but I imagine that some team would be willing to do that for a season. I'm looking at Washington and Detroit.

Excellent point. Wizards could use a facilitator...and tank commander for next season. Unfortunately, they won't have cap space or bad contracts of their own to take Simmons outright without compensation. And I think the Nets will need to hang onto those picks to acquire the talent they need to build around Mitchell. How do we split the baby and get Simmons to WAS?

Utah, Portland and San Antonio have the salaries to make it work. But how much draft capital would it take to entice them?

They are teams with cap space but I think Ben Simmons would be a clear salary dump for them. The draft capital to facilitate something like that would be prohibitive...at least I'd imagine it would be. Simmons is a pariah at this point but I actually think he could have a role with the Wizards who at least have capable floor spacers.

MS wrote:They gave up a fortune

Cavaliers receive:

Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:

Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen - 23.2pts, 8.6rbs 48% - allstar
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick

They will want the house here, an all star, a nice rope player, 3 1st and 2 swaps is bananas.

You're romanticizing that trade. Hindsight makes it look better than it was because Lauri turned into an all-star. When the trade was made though, Cam Johnson's career baseline made him a more appealing asset. The value of those picks were also dampened since the Cavs were percieved to be top-4 in the East off rip, with room to grow as one of the league's top up-and-comers. You're basically suggesting that Mitchell should demand the exact same haul (if not more) despite the loss of cost-control and him being older, which makes no sense.

HofstraBBall wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Can someone explain how a player who is best as a role player and who is only putting up numbers because of his high shot count on a bad team is worth ALL those assets?

You said "Mitchell gives BKN a legitimate star they can build an offense around, who is far more apt in that regard than Bridges". That is EXACTLY why we would not give up that much for anyone but him. Or another TRUE game changer.

You mentioned the "muscle memory fit". We already have that in Devo, who just put up 38 and is fitting seamlessly with SL.

Bridges best role is as a role player. Do agree that he would be an upgrade for defense. And that it is my only concern in pairing JB with DM. But ee need a legitimate 1, top 20, "finisher". I would wait till the summer and see what happens with the DM situation. Good chance if he says he is not extending and wants to come to NY, we get him at a discount. Or we get Murray at reasonable cost. Giving up that many assets for Bridges is the desperate, short sighted move of Knicks past.

Are we really giving up all that much? I think it's hard to argue that Quentin Grimes is a better player or option than Mikal (even with cost as a factor). I'm a major McBride-optimist but he's expendable with a guy like Jalen Brunson already on the team and an excess of potential backup guards available. I'm also a big fan of Jirecho Sims but we already have our pivots in Mitchell Robinson and Isiah Hartenstein; with Precious Acuhiaw and Taj Gibson able to fill in in a pinch...and a possible Joel Embiid looming. Parting with the picks hurt BUT our 2032 first will become available to trade right after this 2024 draft. So what are we losing that is essential?

You kinda of answered it here. We would be giving up enough and adding enough salary to prevent us from going after TRUE elite players. Ie. Embid, DM.
But as you suggested, essentially we would give up 3 firsts and 2 seconds. Grimes considered a first and sims and Deuce seconds. Feel that can be held aside for someone who, once again, I feel is best as a role piece but not what can get us over the second round hump.

Would we? The Knicks would still have 6 first rounders available to trade in 4 years, an assortment of 2nd round picks as well as an All-NBA talent in Julius Randle and DPOY in Mitchell Robinson (for Embiid). Not many teams can offer that and the ones that can: (1) can't offer NY and (2) are not prepared or unwilling to disrupt their current trajectory (i.e. UTH, NOP and OKC).