fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VDesai wrote:We don't maximize our talent by trading RJ for another undersized combo guard to pair with Brunson. We need a lengthy SG/SF who can play defense and stretch the floor. Guys like Trey Murphy III and Cameron Johnson seem to be the best kind of fits.

Dame is a great, but will be in his mid 30s and hasn't played over 70 games in 5 yrs and leaves us weak defensively. And it will cost way more than RJ.

2 guys I am trading RJ for

Jaylen Brown
Brandon Ingram

The guys you mentioned should be gettable with a guy like Obi.

I know the cliche line of "we need a team of Josh Hart's, instead of selfish players like RJ and Julius" sounds great and honorable, but you need talent, top end talent (RJ is a top end talent) and players like that to win. The Knicks are not good enough to trade for fit yet. Cam Johnson and Trey Murphy are NOT getting you closer to a title, no matter the fit.

This is not a starphuck (I hate the ****ing term...thanks Nalod) post, but a maximize your assets post. The RJ hate gets in the way of valuing him when talking trade.

problem with the bold is nobody in NBA circles believe that but a few Knick fans. If RJ believed it himself he wouldnt have resigned for what he did. He would have bet on himself getting a max contract. Instead he took a 2nd tier contract and is proving to be a 2nd tier player

So now we are equating contracts with talent?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

1	Stephen Curry	GSW	$48,070,014	$51,915,615	$55,761,216	$59,606,817			$215,353,662
2	Russell Westbrook	UTA	$47,559,433						$47,063,478
3	LeBron James	LAL	$44,474,988	$53,369,986	$57,639,585				$97,844,974
4	Kevin Durant	PHO	$44,119,845	$47,649,433	$51,179,021	$54,708,609			$197,656,908
5	Bradley Beal	WAS	$43,279,250	$46,741,590	$50,203,930	$53,666,270	$57,128,610		$193,891,040
6	Damian Lillard	POR	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$58,545,211	$63,228,828		$195,465,463
7	Giannis Antetokounmpo	MIL	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$51,935,268			$136,920,252
8	Paul George	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
9	Kawhi Leonard	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
10	John Wall	HOU	$47,345,760	$6,802,950					$54,148,710
11	Klay Thompson	GSW	$40,600,080	$43,219,440					$83,819,520
12	Kyrie Irving	DAL	$38,917,057						$38,917,057
13	Rudy Gobert	MIN	$38,172,414	$41,000,000	$43,827,586	$46,655,172			$123,000,000
14	Anthony Davis	LAL	$37,980,720	$40,600,080	$43,219,440				$78,580,800
15	Khris Middleton	MIL	$37,948,276	$40,396,552					$37,948,276
16	Jimmy Butler	MIA	$37,653,300	$45,183,960	$48,798,677	$52,413,394			$131,635,937
17	Tobias Harris	PHI	$37,633,050	$39,270,150					$76,903,200
18	Luka Dončić	DAL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
19	Trae Young	ATL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
20	Zach LaVine	CHI	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$166,192,320
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
21	Ben Simmons	BRK	$35,448,672	$37,893,408	$40,338,144				$113,680,224
22	Pascal Siakam	TOR	$35,448,672	$37,893,408					$73,342,080
23	Myles Turner	IND	$35,069,500	$20,975,000	$19,928,500				$75,973,000
24	Devin Booker	PHO	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$290,467,200
25	Karl-Anthony Towns	MIN	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$229,403,400
26	Kristaps Porziņģis	WAS	$33,833,400	$36,016,200					$33,833,400
27	Jrue Holiday	MIL	$33,665,040	$36,158,747	$38,652,454				$69,823,787
28	Joel Embiid	PHI	$33,616,770	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000		$185,572,770
29	Andrew Wiggins	GSW	$33,616,770	$24,330,357	$26,276,786	$28,223,215	$30,169,644		$112,447,128
30	CJ McCollum	NOP	$33,333,333	$35,802,469	$33,333,333	$30,666,666			$133,135,801
31	Nikola Jokić	DEN	$33,047,803	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000	$61,908,000	$243,159,803
32	James Harden	PHI	$33,000,000	$35,640,000					$33,000,000
33	Brandon Ingram	NOP	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
34	Jamal Murray	DEN	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
35	D'Angelo Russell	LAL	$31,377,750						$31,377,750
36	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$179,299,750
37	Michael Porter Jr.	DEN	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$150,493,600
38	Deandre Ayton	PHO	$30,913,750	$32,459,438	$34,005,126	$35,550,814			$132,929,128
39	Donovan Mitchell	CLE	$30,913,750	$33,162,030	$35,410,310	$37,096,620			$99,486,090
40	De'Aaron Fox	SAC	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
41	Bam Adebayo	MIA	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
42	Jayson Tatum	BOS	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$97,800,180
43	Gordon Hayward	CHO	$30,075,000	$31,500,000					$61,575,

Top 43 contracts. I stuck with over 30 million. So you are telling me these are the 43 most talented players currently in the NBA?

Have to see the humor in that!

EwingsGlass wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VDesai wrote:We don't maximize our talent by trading RJ for another undersized combo guard to pair with Brunson. We need a lengthy SG/SF who can play defense and stretch the floor. Guys like Trey Murphy III and Cameron Johnson seem to be the best kind of fits.

Dame is a great, but will be in his mid 30s and hasn't played over 70 games in 5 yrs and leaves us weak defensively. And it will cost way more than RJ.

2 guys I am trading RJ for

Jaylen Brown
Brandon Ingram

The guys you mentioned should be gettable with a guy like Obi.

I know the cliche line of "we need a team of Josh Hart's, instead of selfish players like RJ and Julius" sounds great and honorable, but you need talent, top end talent (RJ is a top end talent) and players like that to win. The Knicks are not good enough to trade for fit yet. Cam Johnson and Trey Murphy are NOT getting you closer to a title, no matter the fit.

This is not a starphuck (I hate the ****ing term...thanks Nalod) post, but a maximize your assets post. The RJ hate gets in the way of valuing him when talking trade.

problem with the bold is nobody in NBA circles believe that but a few Knick fans. If RJ believed it himself he wouldnt have resigned for what he did. He would have bet on himself getting a max contract. Instead he took a 2nd tier contract and is proving to be a 2nd tier player

So now we are equating contracts with talent?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

1	Stephen Curry	GSW	$48,070,014	$51,915,615	$55,761,216	$59,606,817			$215,353,662
2	Russell Westbrook	UTA	$47,559,433						$47,063,478
3	LeBron James	LAL	$44,474,988	$53,369,986	$57,639,585				$97,844,974
4	Kevin Durant	PHO	$44,119,845	$47,649,433	$51,179,021	$54,708,609			$197,656,908
5	Bradley Beal	WAS	$43,279,250	$46,741,590	$50,203,930	$53,666,270	$57,128,610		$193,891,040
6	Damian Lillard	POR	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$58,545,211	$63,228,828		$195,465,463
7	Giannis Antetokounmpo	MIL	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$51,935,268			$136,920,252
8	Paul George	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
9	Kawhi Leonard	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
10	John Wall	HOU	$47,345,760	$6,802,950					$54,148,710
11	Klay Thompson	GSW	$40,600,080	$43,219,440					$83,819,520
12	Kyrie Irving	DAL	$38,917,057						$38,917,057
13	Rudy Gobert	MIN	$38,172,414	$41,000,000	$43,827,586	$46,655,172			$123,000,000
14	Anthony Davis	LAL	$37,980,720	$40,600,080	$43,219,440				$78,580,800
15	Khris Middleton	MIL	$37,948,276	$40,396,552					$37,948,276
16	Jimmy Butler	MIA	$37,653,300	$45,183,960	$48,798,677	$52,413,394			$131,635,937
17	Tobias Harris	PHI	$37,633,050	$39,270,150					$76,903,200
18	Luka Dončić	DAL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
19	Trae Young	ATL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
20	Zach LaVine	CHI	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$166,192,320
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
21	Ben Simmons	BRK	$35,448,672	$37,893,408	$40,338,144				$113,680,224
22	Pascal Siakam	TOR	$35,448,672	$37,893,408					$73,342,080
23	Myles Turner	IND	$35,069,500	$20,975,000	$19,928,500				$75,973,000
24	Devin Booker	PHO	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$290,467,200
25	Karl-Anthony Towns	MIN	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$229,403,400
26	Kristaps Porziņģis	WAS	$33,833,400	$36,016,200					$33,833,400
27	Jrue Holiday	MIL	$33,665,040	$36,158,747	$38,652,454				$69,823,787
28	Joel Embiid	PHI	$33,616,770	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000		$185,572,770
29	Andrew Wiggins	GSW	$33,616,770	$24,330,357	$26,276,786	$28,223,215	$30,169,644		$112,447,128
30	CJ McCollum	NOP	$33,333,333	$35,802,469	$33,333,333	$30,666,666			$133,135,801
31	Nikola Jokić	DEN	$33,047,803	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000	$61,908,000	$243,159,803
32	James Harden	PHI	$33,000,000	$35,640,000					$33,000,000
33	Brandon Ingram	NOP	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
34	Jamal Murray	DEN	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
35	D'Angelo Russell	LAL	$31,377,750						$31,377,750
36	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$179,299,750
37	Michael Porter Jr.	DEN	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$150,493,600
38	Deandre Ayton	PHO	$30,913,750	$32,459,438	$34,005,126	$35,550,814			$132,929,128
39	Donovan Mitchell	CLE	$30,913,750	$33,162,030	$35,410,310	$37,096,620			$99,486,090
40	De'Aaron Fox	SAC	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
41	Bam Adebayo	MIA	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
42	Jayson Tatum	BOS	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$97,800,180
43	Gordon Hayward	CHO	$30,075,000	$31,500,000					$61,575,

Top 43 contracts. I stuck with over 30 million. So you are telling me these are the 43 most talented players currently in the NBA?

Excluding players on rookie scale contracts, I think you have to see there is a correlation between talent and getting paid. Won't argue that it is a 1 to 1 relationship, but is it correlated, yes.

So you are telling me, Hayward, Porter, Russell, McCollumn, Wiggins, Porzingis, Turner, and Simmons are top 43 and Jason Tatum is not?

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VDesai wrote:We don't maximize our talent by trading RJ for another undersized combo guard to pair with Brunson. We need a lengthy SG/SF who can play defense and stretch the floor. Guys like Trey Murphy III and Cameron Johnson seem to be the best kind of fits.

Dame is a great, but will be in his mid 30s and hasn't played over 70 games in 5 yrs and leaves us weak defensively. And it will cost way more than RJ.

2 guys I am trading RJ for

Jaylen Brown
Brandon Ingram

The guys you mentioned should be gettable with a guy like Obi.

I know the cliche line of "we need a team of Josh Hart's, instead of selfish players like RJ and Julius" sounds great and honorable, but you need talent, top end talent (RJ is a top end talent) and players like that to win. The Knicks are not good enough to trade for fit yet. Cam Johnson and Trey Murphy are NOT getting you closer to a title, no matter the fit.

This is not a starphuck (I hate the ****ing term...thanks Nalod) post, but a maximize your assets post. The RJ hate gets in the way of valuing him when talking trade.

problem with the bold is nobody in NBA circles believe that but a few Knick fans. If RJ believed it himself he wouldnt have resigned for what he did. He would have bet on himself getting a max contract. Instead he took a 2nd tier contract and is proving to be a 2nd tier player

So now we are equating contracts with talent?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

1	Stephen Curry	GSW	$48,070,014	$51,915,615	$55,761,216	$59,606,817			$215,353,662
2	Russell Westbrook	UTA	$47,559,433						$47,063,478
3	LeBron James	LAL	$44,474,988	$53,369,986	$57,639,585				$97,844,974
4	Kevin Durant	PHO	$44,119,845	$47,649,433	$51,179,021	$54,708,609			$197,656,908
5	Bradley Beal	WAS	$43,279,250	$46,741,590	$50,203,930	$53,666,270	$57,128,610		$193,891,040
6	Damian Lillard	POR	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$58,545,211	$63,228,828		$195,465,463
7	Giannis Antetokounmpo	MIL	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$51,935,268			$136,920,252
8	Paul George	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
9	Kawhi Leonard	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
10	John Wall	HOU	$47,345,760	$6,802,950					$54,148,710
11	Klay Thompson	GSW	$40,600,080	$43,219,440					$83,819,520
12	Kyrie Irving	DAL	$38,917,057						$38,917,057
13	Rudy Gobert	MIN	$38,172,414	$41,000,000	$43,827,586	$46,655,172			$123,000,000
14	Anthony Davis	LAL	$37,980,720	$40,600,080	$43,219,440				$78,580,800
15	Khris Middleton	MIL	$37,948,276	$40,396,552					$37,948,276
16	Jimmy Butler	MIA	$37,653,300	$45,183,960	$48,798,677	$52,413,394			$131,635,937
17	Tobias Harris	PHI	$37,633,050	$39,270,150					$76,903,200
18	Luka Dončić	DAL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
19	Trae Young	ATL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
20	Zach LaVine	CHI	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$166,192,320
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
21	Ben Simmons	BRK	$35,448,672	$37,893,408	$40,338,144				$113,680,224
22	Pascal Siakam	TOR	$35,448,672	$37,893,408					$73,342,080
23	Myles Turner	IND	$35,069,500	$20,975,000	$19,928,500				$75,973,000
24	Devin Booker	PHO	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$290,467,200
25	Karl-Anthony Towns	MIN	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$229,403,400
26	Kristaps Porziņģis	WAS	$33,833,400	$36,016,200					$33,833,400
27	Jrue Holiday	MIL	$33,665,040	$36,158,747	$38,652,454				$69,823,787
28	Joel Embiid	PHI	$33,616,770	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000		$185,572,770
29	Andrew Wiggins	GSW	$33,616,770	$24,330,357	$26,276,786	$28,223,215	$30,169,644		$112,447,128
30	CJ McCollum	NOP	$33,333,333	$35,802,469	$33,333,333	$30,666,666			$133,135,801
31	Nikola Jokić	DEN	$33,047,803	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000	$61,908,000	$243,159,803
32	James Harden	PHI	$33,000,000	$35,640,000					$33,000,000
33	Brandon Ingram	NOP	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
34	Jamal Murray	DEN	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
35	D'Angelo Russell	LAL	$31,377,750						$31,377,750
36	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$179,299,750
37	Michael Porter Jr.	DEN	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$150,493,600
38	Deandre Ayton	PHO	$30,913,750	$32,459,438	$34,005,126	$35,550,814			$132,929,128
39	Donovan Mitchell	CLE	$30,913,750	$33,162,030	$35,410,310	$37,096,620			$99,486,090
40	De'Aaron Fox	SAC	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
41	Bam Adebayo	MIA	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
42	Jayson Tatum	BOS	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$97,800,180
43	Gordon Hayward	CHO	$30,075,000	$31,500,000					$61,575,

Top 43 contracts. I stuck with over 30 million. So you are telling me these are the 43 most talented players currently in the NBA?

The point about the contract is RJ KNOWS he's 2nd tier and that's why he took that deal. He could have waited, and had a monster season and looked for max money. He was smart to sign that deal because he's not top tier and he's not getting top tier money.

Show me a top tier guy who signed for less. Your list above proves my point. RJ isnt in the class of guys on your list

but you need talent, top end talent (RJ is a top end talent) and players like that to win.

Currently RJ is Second tier. That is agreed

So we both see RJ as 2nd tier. You think he's gonna be a star and put it together. I hope your right. I think 4 years of equal growth and regression (especially on the defensive end) is enough for me to look at other guys on the roster who are passing him, and its happening right before our eyes.

fishmike wrote:cause that's not what you said before:

but you need talent, top end talent (RJ is a top end talent) and players like that to win.

is very different from

Currently RJ is Second tier. That is agreed

So we both see RJ as 2nd tier. You think he's gonna be a star and put it together. I hope your right. I think 4 years of equal growth and regression (especially on the defensive end) is enough for me to look at other guys on the roster who are passing him, and its happening right before our eyes.

I said RJ is currently 2nd tier. But he is a top end talent. Both can be true.

Nalod wrote:
Have to admit, OG’s stat line last night looked like a bad RJ game. If RJ hung that on a play in game I can only imagine the reactions.

Have to see the humor in that!

RJ shot 39% and 29% in 5 games against the Hawks 2 years ago - OG had a very RJ like game last night.

joec32033 wrote:

VDesai wrote:We don't maximize our talent by trading RJ for another undersized combo guard to pair with Brunson. We need a lengthy SG/SF who can play defense and stretch the floor. Guys like Trey Murphy III and Cameron Johnson seem to be the best kind of fits.

Dame is a great, but will be in his mid 30s and hasn't played over 70 games in 5 yrs and leaves us weak defensively. And it will cost way more than RJ.

2 guys I am trading RJ for

Jaylen Brown
Brandon Ingram

I had a similar thought, and then I thought that RJ is well capable of becoming as good as they. I would rather show extra patience and stick with the young home-grown talent.

EwingsGlass wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

VDesai wrote:We don't maximize our talent by trading RJ for another undersized combo guard to pair with Brunson. We need a lengthy SG/SF who can play defense and stretch the floor. Guys like Trey Murphy III and Cameron Johnson seem to be the best kind of fits.

Dame is a great, but will be in his mid 30s and hasn't played over 70 games in 5 yrs and leaves us weak defensively. And it will cost way more than RJ.

2 guys I am trading RJ for

Jaylen Brown
Brandon Ingram

The guys you mentioned should be gettable with a guy like Obi.

I know the cliche line of "we need a team of Josh Hart's, instead of selfish players like RJ and Julius" sounds great and honorable, but you need talent, top end talent (RJ is a top end talent) and players like that to win. The Knicks are not good enough to trade for fit yet. Cam Johnson and Trey Murphy are NOT getting you closer to a title, no matter the fit.

This is not a starphuck (I hate the ****ing term...thanks Nalod) post, but a maximize your assets post. The RJ hate gets in the way of valuing him when talking trade.

problem with the bold is nobody in NBA circles believe that but a few Knick fans. If RJ believed it himself he wouldnt have resigned for what he did. He would have bet on himself getting a max contract. Instead he took a 2nd tier contract and is proving to be a 2nd tier player

So now we are equating contracts with talent?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

1	Stephen Curry	GSW	$48,070,014	$51,915,615	$55,761,216	$59,606,817			$215,353,662
2	Russell Westbrook	UTA	$47,559,433						$47,063,478
3	LeBron James	LAL	$44,474,988	$53,369,986	$57,639,585				$97,844,974
4	Kevin Durant	PHO	$44,119,845	$47,649,433	$51,179,021	$54,708,609			$197,656,908
5	Bradley Beal	WAS	$43,279,250	$46,741,590	$50,203,930	$53,666,270	$57,128,610		$193,891,040
6	Damian Lillard	POR	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$58,545,211	$63,228,828		$195,465,463
7	Giannis Antetokounmpo	MIL	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676	$51,935,268			$136,920,252
8	Paul George	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
9	Kawhi Leonard	LAC	$42,492,492	$45,640,084	$48,787,676				$88,132,576
10	John Wall	HOU	$47,345,760	$6,802,950					$54,148,710
11	Klay Thompson	GSW	$40,600,080	$43,219,440					$83,819,520
12	Kyrie Irving	DAL	$38,917,057						$38,917,057
13	Rudy Gobert	MIN	$38,172,414	$41,000,000	$43,827,586	$46,655,172			$123,000,000
14	Anthony Davis	LAL	$37,980,720	$40,600,080	$43,219,440				$78,580,800
15	Khris Middleton	MIL	$37,948,276	$40,396,552					$37,948,276
16	Jimmy Butler	MIA	$37,653,300	$45,183,960	$48,798,677	$52,413,394			$131,635,937
17	Tobias Harris	PHI	$37,633,050	$39,270,150					$76,903,200
18	Luka Dončić	DAL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
19	Trae Young	ATL	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$215,159,700
20	Zach LaVine	CHI	$37,096,500	$40,064,220	$43,031,940	$45,999,660	$48,967,380		$166,192,320
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
21	Ben Simmons	BRK	$35,448,672	$37,893,408	$40,338,144				$113,680,224
22	Pascal Siakam	TOR	$35,448,672	$37,893,408					$73,342,080
23	Myles Turner	IND	$35,069,500	$20,975,000	$19,928,500				$75,973,000
24	Devin Booker	PHO	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$290,467,200
25	Karl-Anthony Towns	MIN	$33,833,400	$36,016,200	$49,245,000	$53,184,600	$57,124,200	$61,063,800	$229,403,400
26	Kristaps Porziņģis	WAS	$33,833,400	$36,016,200					$33,833,400
27	Jrue Holiday	MIL	$33,665,040	$36,158,747	$38,652,454				$69,823,787
28	Joel Embiid	PHI	$33,616,770	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000		$185,572,770
29	Andrew Wiggins	GSW	$33,616,770	$24,330,357	$26,276,786	$28,223,215	$30,169,644		$112,447,128
30	CJ McCollum	NOP	$33,333,333	$35,802,469	$33,333,333	$30,666,666			$133,135,801
31	Nikola Jokić	DEN	$33,047,803	$46,900,000	$50,652,000	$54,404,000	$58,156,000	$61,908,000	$243,159,803
32	James Harden	PHI	$33,000,000	$35,640,000					$33,000,000
33	Brandon Ingram	NOP	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
34	Jamal Murray	DEN	$31,650,600	$33,833,400	$36,016,200				$101,500,200
35	D'Angelo Russell	LAL	$31,377,750						$31,377,750
36	Shai Gilgeous-Alexander	OKC	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$179,299,750
37	Michael Porter Jr.	DEN	$30,913,750	$33,386,850	$35,859,950	$38,333,050	$40,806,150		$150,493,600
38	Deandre Ayton	PHO	$30,913,750	$32,459,438	$34,005,126	$35,550,814			$132,929,128
39	Donovan Mitchell	CLE	$30,913,750	$33,162,030	$35,410,310	$37,096,620			$99,486,090
40	De'Aaron Fox	SAC	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
Salary	
Rk	Player	Tm	2022-23	2023-24	2024-25	2025-26	2026-27	2027-28	Guaranteed
41	Bam Adebayo	MIA	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$134,896,800
42	Jayson Tatum	BOS	$30,351,780	$32,600,060	$34,848,340	$37,096,620			$97,800,180
43	Gordon Hayward	CHO	$30,075,000	$31,500,000					$61,575,

Top 43 contracts. I stuck with over 30 million. So you are telling me these are the 43 most talented players currently in the NBA?

Excluding players on rookie scale contracts, I think you have to see there is a correlation between talent and getting paid. Won't argue that it is a 1 to 1 relationship, but is it correlated, yes.

So you are telling me, Hayward, Porter, Russell, McCollumn, Wiggins, Porzingis, Turner, and Simmons are top 43 and Jason Tatum is not?

No. Tatum is 42, so your statement reads incorrectly in any event. But I said correlated but not 1 to 1. Tatum is 42 on the highest salary. Top 10 in terms of talent. But you have to recognize that the maximum salary a player with 5-7 years of experience is capped differently than a player with 10+ years of experience. They couldn't pay him more if they wanted to. Yet. Those caps are based on the cap for the year the contract is signed, which is tied to Basketball related revenue. So, years of experience, year of contract all affect salary. So it correlated but not a direct ranking.

Think of it this way. Out of those 43 contracts you name out of the 450 or so players in the league, you will have a very high percentage of hardware related to All NBA, All Defense, MVP, All Star in those 43. Its not going to be an even distribution across those entire 450. That's because talent and salary are correlated.

I think I responded to the wrong post than I wanted to with that response, because you left room for error with how you said it isn't 1 for 1 correlated. That was technically my point.

I do offer this up. It is talent or performance that correlates closer to contract value? I offer that it is performance.

martin wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I do offer this up. It is talent or performance that correlates closer to contract value? I offer that it is performance.

I'd offer up that it is more than talent or performance. A lot of it is just circumstance of both the individual and the team.

If a team is desperate to keep a particular player cause they are over the cap and wouldn't be able to sign anyone else and risk losing the player for nothing, the team will overpay.

No one should be surprised by Tatum being #43 coming off of a rookie contract.

100% makes my origional point for me, but in a better way than I have been trying to show.. The only point I am trying to make is that contract values do not specifically correlate to just talent.