fishmike wrote:RJ doesnt suck. He's just the left EFF% guy we have who also takes a ton of shots and is one of the team's poorer defenders.

He's young. Take out the emotion and the debate question is simple. How much longer do we wait for development before pulling the plug. His minutes are already down, it's usually because he's sitting in crunch time for IQ or JHart so it's happening.

That's a huge part of it.

Knicks are about to enter playoff mode full time. For this season and next and thereafter with this level of crew.

They don't have the minutes and types of games to give RJ the room and in-game dev he needs at the pace he is going. Or depending of your view, at the pace where is not going very far.

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:RJ doesnt suck. He's just the left EFF% guy we have who also takes a ton of shots and is one of the team's poorer defenders.

He's young. Take out the emotion and the debate question is simple. How much longer do we wait for development before pulling the plug. His minutes are already down, it's usually because he's sitting in crunch time for IQ or JHart so it's happening.

That's a huge part of it.

Knicks are about to enter playoff mode full time. For this season and next and thereafter with this level of crew.

They don't have the minutes and types of games to give RJ the room and in-game dev he needs at the pace he is going. Or depending of your view, at the pace where is not going very far.

We just saw this scenario play out with the FO and Julius.

Knicks sign a core player to a contract extension. They follow up with a disappointing season. FO shows commitment to the player, brings in additional personnel and resources to help get them back on track the following season.

I understand that in Julius' case, we didn't have anyone to really step up and replace his production for us (despite a strong close to the season by Obi), whereas with RJ, Quick has stepped up big time with his scoring and Grimes/Hart with their perimeter D. I still expect the FO to go into this off season, and at least early next season planning to keep RJ part of the core. Obviously how he responds this summer makes all the difference. If he doesn't show better decision making or defense, I think he's fair game come December.

In the meantime, Thibs has his rotation under control. RJ still seeing lots of time with the bench unit instead of starters.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Rookie wrote:I can’t believe that we are still talking about RJ Barrett like he’s some difference maker or Kobe Jr. Kids got one foot in the bust category and the other in the let’s wait and see category. In the end he probably an overpaid tweener bench role player without any elite skill. Count me as still not a fan and still unimpressed

Way off. Kid has above average talent. Problem is unrealistic fans expectations.
22 year old with his skill set is above average. Imo.

The problem is he's our weakest link (along with Obi) in the rotation. That's what's getting him the attention.

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Rookie wrote:I can’t believe that we are still talking about RJ Barrett like he’s some difference maker or Kobe Jr. Kids got one foot in the bust category and the other in the let’s wait and see category. In the end he probably an overpaid tweener bench role player without any elite skill. Count me as still not a fan and still unimpressed

Way off. Kid has above average talent. Problem is unrealistic fans expectations.
22 year old with his skill set is above average. Imo.

"22 year old" is a bit disingenuous.. he's a 4 year pro, top 3 pick, highest rank HS and college player. Maybe expectations are the problem. For me I see someone like IQ and Grimes really take steps forward. Same with Randle since he's been here. Mitch has improved. Brunson blown expectations away.

The problem is he's our weakest link (along with Obi) in the rotation. That's what's getting him the attention.

Good points. Randle was 25 when he got here, and 26 when he put it all together.
Expectations for Iq and Grimes are lower and thus they shine.
RJ is a year younger but here a year longer and was the 3rd pick.
My expectations are not that great and thus Im ok with his progress.
As I have said, he is not a detriment to the teams success and perhaps when you scrape for the things not obvious he is in fact improving.
His turnovers are higher in some places because he is working thru things not given to him before. Perhaps your looking at the (after) effect, Im looking at the cause.
I'm under the belief his mistakes are magnified and his other improvements are not. His outside shooting is the issue. The one or two turnovers a game that are bone headed are not.
Weakest link? Perhaps as mentioned I can agree with.
RJ is family. I'm not ready to move on, not until this season is done.

I highlighted a statement you made, that I dont believe.

You mean to tell me you never had high expectations for a #3 pick? Thats a false statement. He's a number 3 pick for a reason, top ranked in HS and went to a top school, well respected coach and was the leader on a team where the #1 pick Zion played. All three of those guys had high expectations (Zion, Ja, RJ).

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Rookie wrote:I can’t believe that we are still talking about RJ Barrett like he’s some difference maker or Kobe Jr. Kids got one foot in the bust category and the other in the let’s wait and see category. In the end he probably an overpaid tweener bench role player without any elite skill. Count me as still not a fan and still unimpressed

Way off. Kid has above average talent. Problem is unrealistic fans expectations.
22 year old with his skill set is above average. Imo.

"22 year old" is a bit disingenuous.. he's a 4 year pro, top 3 pick, highest rank HS and college player. Maybe expectations are the problem. For me I see someone like IQ and Grimes really take steps forward. Same with Randle since he's been here. Mitch has improved. Brunson blown expectations away.

The problem is he's our weakest link (along with Obi) in the rotation. That's what's getting him the attention.

Good points. Randle was 25 when he got here, and 26 when he put it all together.
Expectations for Iq and Grimes are lower and thus they shine.
RJ is a year younger but here a year longer and was the 3rd pick.
My expectations are not that great and thus Im ok with his progress.
As I have said, he is not a detriment to the teams success and perhaps when you scrape for the things not obvious he is in fact improving.
His turnovers are higher in some places because he is working thru things not given to him before. Perhaps your looking at the (after) effect, Im looking at the cause.
I'm under the belief his mistakes are magnified and his other improvements are not. His outside shooting is the issue. The one or two turnovers a game that are bone headed are not.
Weakest link? Perhaps as mentioned I can agree with.
RJ is family. I'm not ready to move on, not until this season is done.

I highlighted a statement you made, that I dont believe.

You mean to tell me you never had high expectations for a #3 pick? Thats a false statement. He's a number 3 pick for a reason, top ranked in HS and went to a top school, well respected coach and was the leader on a team where the #1 pick Zion played. All three of those guys had high expectations (Zion, Ja, RJ).

He had the shooting issues similar in College.
And he he was 18 when drafted.
Did I think he'd be more by now? yeah. superstar? No.
Im not the guy comparing him to Kobe. I compared him to Paul George, Igudala, and McGrady as potential ceiling. Mcgrady in his 3rd year really took off. RJ has not.
Some third picks are busts. He is not.
He was the leader of the Zion Duke team but Zion outshined them all very quickly.
Zion and Jah are on different levels of expectations out of the box and have proved to have a faster trajectory as rookies. RJ from day one was more about his development. not a project.

as for others, low IQ? Naw, he is passing more and making good plays.
I hear redundant opinions that some seem to encapsulate and keep that opinion in that box until obvious change.
Its my opinion on eye tests and what others bring in stats. Im not saying the kid is going to be an allstar anytime soon. I have described what progress I thought he as made.
others disagree. Its all good.
Im ok being wrong btw, Im not predicting, its what I am hoping I am seeing is correct and he closer to the next level of play. Not important if im happy or not, its what his coaches think!
What are they asking him to do? None of us know.