jskinny35 wrote:I thought our draft pick for 2023 was traded away for J.Hart? We have the Mavs 1-10 pick left - is that correct?

fishmike wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I thought our draft pick for 2023 was traded away for J.Hart? We have the Mavs 1-10 pick left - is that correct?

yes but the pick we traded for Hart is lottery protected, so if we **** the bed and fall into the lottery we get that pick back

Gotcha - thanks! So I would be in favor of this plan but would do it by starting IQ, Grimes, Hart, Obi and Sims/Hartenstein so at least we are transparent about our intentions and can evaluate the young players for their futures better. Not sure even doing this would result in the free fall needed to guarantee a lottery pick...

(And of course I know this will never happen)

Caseloads wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Tankers are back already. Jeez.

Never left.

We need a young PG,

Have multiple (Brunson, IQ, Deuce, Rokas...)

a SF

Sure. We can use the Dallas pick and/or future assets to try and acquire one, while we try and rehab RJ.

and a PF

Already can't find enough minutes for Obi - you want to ask another lotto pick to fill this awkward spot? Meanwhile Jericho's watching from the bench.

Knicks will improve via player development and consolidation trades. Even if we get both the Dallas and Washington picks this year, would not be shocked to see them shipped out, whether we get players in return, or simply punt and get future 1sts. Not too concerned about our pick this year - it was very well spent.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:We need a shooting coach.

RJ needs a shooting coach. Not so sure about the other guys. But yea, no one on this team, with the exception of maybe Fournier and JB, are lights out 100% when wide open.

I think RJ has been working with Drew Hanlen since high school.

Not sure that is a highlight on Drew Hanlen's CV.

Caseloads wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Tankers are back already. Jeez.

Never left.

We need a young PG,

Have multiple (Brunson, IQ, Deuce, Rokas...)

a SF

Sure. We can use the Dallas pick and/or future assets to try and acquire one, while we try and rehab RJ.

and a PF

Already can't find enough minutes for Obi - you want to ask another lotto pick to fill this awkward spot? Meanwhile Jericho's watching from the bench.

Knicks will improve via player development and consolidation trades. Even if we get both the Dallas and Washington picks this year, would not be shocked to see them shipped out, whether we get players in return, or simply punt and get future 1sts. Not too concerned about our pick this year - it was very well spent.

puzzling angle from Caseloads

We need to draft some size on the wing... really anything but a small guard. Hard to envision Obi being back next year. I think that's one you take as a loss, get what you can and move on.

We are really small on a perimeter, and our best players are PGs/SGs. We dont have a SF on the roster and Obi doesnt play big. Brunson/IQ/RJ/McBride/Grimes/Hart... none of these guys are SFs any more than Spree was. So you play 3 guard sets which is fine. We are obviously doing well with that. I think some better balance would help, but I do like the quality of guys we are adding.

Fish - I think we are in agreement... I’m sorry if there was any miscommunication

We need size on this team, at all positions

We have zero big PGs on the team now. I’m impressed by McBride’s +/-; but he is smaller than jalen, who is 6-1 in sneakers; so McBride is really 6-0

D rose is 6-3, but he is not playing; so we need a big pure PG

We have zero SFs, which is puzzling why Cam was not developed here. We need a great SF. Someone 6-8 or bigger

Obi is 6-9 but plays small and is gone. We need a 6-10 or 6-11 PF who can swing to center if needed

I love the heart that our players have and demonstrate- we just need a big PG; size at all positions; and a true SF

And someone to replace Obi, as he is good as gone

Is Cam's developmental failure on the Knicks? While he does fill a need he's NOT better than the guys he was replaced with.

To me the 2 guys I would go hard (and I would really want BOTH) would be Ingram and Cam Johnson. Ingram is hurt alot but he's got the high end talent that pushes us into the elite zone. We would need to use assets, like RJ/Obi and (**** I hate this) IQ. IF (and this is a BIG IF) the FO is confident McBride can level up his offense and step into IQs role we could look something like this:
PG Brunson/McBride
SG Grimes/JHart
SF Ingram/Cam Thomas
PF Jules
C Mitch/IHart/Sims

We keep our future picks and stay pretty young as well. Tough choices coming up, but good options for teambuilding. I am also fine with pretty much running this crew back with some tweaks.

Caseloads wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Tankers are back already. Jeez.

Never left.

We need a young PG,

Have multiple (Brunson, IQ, Deuce, Rokas...)

a SF

Sure. We can use the Dallas pick and/or future assets to try and acquire one, while we try and rehab RJ.

and a PF

Already can't find enough minutes for Obi - you want to ask another lotto pick to fill this awkward spot? Meanwhile Jericho's watching from the bench.

Knicks will improve via player development and consolidation trades. Even if we get both the Dallas and Washington picks this year, would not be shocked to see them shipped out, whether we get players in return, or simply punt and get future 1sts. Not too concerned about our pick this year - it was very well spent.

puzzling angle from Caseloads

We need to draft some size on the wing... really anything but a small guard. Hard to envision Obi being back next year. I think that's one you take as a loss, get what you can and move on.

We are really small on a perimeter, and our best players are PGs/SGs. We dont have a SF on the roster and Obi doesnt play big. Brunson/IQ/RJ/McBride/Grimes/Hart... none of these guys are SFs any more than Spree was. So you play 3 guard sets which is fine. We are obviously doing well with that. I think some better balance would help, but I do like the quality of guys we are adding.

Fish - I think we are in agreement... I;m sorry if there was any miscommunication

We need size on this team, at all positions

We have zero big PGs on the team now. I;m impressed by McBride;s +/-; but he is smaller than jalen, who is 6-1 in sneakers; so McBride is really 6-0

D rose is 6-3, but he is not playing; so we need a big pure PG

We have zero SFs, which is puzzling why Cam was not developed here. We need a great SF. Someone 6-8 or bigger

Obi is 6-9 but plays small and is gone. We need a 6-10 or 6-11 PF who can swing to center if needed

I love the heart that our players have and demonstrate- we just need a big PG; size at all positions; and a true SF

And someone to replace Obi, as he is good as gone

Not to beat a dead horse, but why again is RJ not a SF?
Did you mean we have zero *good* SFs ?

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I thought our draft pick for 2023 was traded away for J.Hart? We have the Mavs 1-10 pick left - is that correct?

yes but the pick we traded for Hart is lottery protected, so if we **** the bed and fall into the lottery we get that pick back

Gotcha - thanks! So I would be in favor of this plan but would do it by starting IQ, Grimes, Hart, Obi and Sims/Hartenstein so at least we are transparent about our intentions and can evaluate the young players for their futures better. Not sure even doing this would result in the free fall needed to guarantee a lottery pick...

(And of course I know this will never happen)

I feel like you are missing out on the fact that the Knicks have the 7th best record in the league?

Haha - not missing out but just think we may be better served to reload this draft vs drafting lower while taking our knocks in the 1st or best case - 2nd round. I get that we should be happy for the progress but I still feel uneasy with our wagons hitched to Randle.

As a result I truly believe we will need to move on from RJ to maximize talent on this roster and would prefer to attach him to one of our picks to move up and land better talent...tanking would help this scenario which IMO offers greater long-term opportunities.

RJ is a pretty good player but def not a good fit with Randle. Randle has overachieved and will be here much longer than I thought.

I did write it will never happen :)

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Tankers are back already. Jeez.

Never left.

We need a young PG,

Have multiple (Brunson, IQ, Deuce, Rokas...)

a SF

Sure. We can use the Dallas pick and/or future assets to try and acquire one, while we try and rehab RJ.

and a PF

Already can't find enough minutes for Obi - you want to ask another lotto pick to fill this awkward spot? Meanwhile Jericho's watching from the bench.

Knicks will improve via player development and consolidation trades. Even if we get both the Dallas and Washington picks this year, would not be shocked to see them shipped out, whether we get players in return, or simply punt and get future 1sts. Not too concerned about our pick this year - it was very well spent.

puzzling angle from Caseloads

We need to draft some size on the wing... really anything but a small guard. Hard to envision Obi being back next year. I think that's one you take as a loss, get what you can and move on.

We are really small on a perimeter, and our best players are PGs/SGs. We dont have a SF on the roster and Obi doesnt play big. Brunson/IQ/RJ/McBride/Grimes/Hart... none of these guys are SFs any more than Spree was. So you play 3 guard sets which is fine. We are obviously doing well with that. I think some better balance would help, but I do like the quality of guys we are adding.

Fish - I think we are in agreement... I;m sorry if there was any miscommunication

We need size on this team, at all positions

We have zero big PGs on the team now. I;m impressed by McBride;s +/-; but he is smaller than jalen, who is 6-1 in sneakers; so McBride is really 6-0

D rose is 6-3, but he is not playing; so we need a big pure PG

We have zero SFs, which is puzzling why Cam was not developed here. We need a great SF. Someone 6-8 or bigger

Obi is 6-9 but plays small and is gone. We need a 6-10 or 6-11 PF who can swing to center if needed

I love the heart that our players have and demonstrate- we just need a big PG; size at all positions; and a true SF

And someone to replace Obi, as he is good as gone

Not to beat a dead horse, but why again is RJ not a SF?
Did you mean we have zero *good* SFs ?

No I mean RJ isnt a SF. He wasnt a SF in college either. He was better as a SG with Reggie playing the SF. He's much better at SG where his size offers him an advantage. Was Spree a SF? Just because we played him there didnt make him one. You can talk positionless BB etc all day but RJ started as a SG and should go back there. He plays SF because of all the SGs we have he's the biggest.

We play 3 guards. Reddish was the last SF we had.

You really want RJ guarding NBA SGs? His slow ass will get torched.

Knickoftime wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I thought our draft pick for 2023 was traded away for J.Hart? We have the Mavs 1-10 pick left - is that correct?

yes but the pick we traded for Hart is lottery protected, so if we **** the bed and fall into the lottery we get that pick back

Gotcha - thanks! So I would be in favor of this plan but would do it by starting IQ, Grimes, Hart, Obi and Sims/Hartenstein so at least we are transparent about our intentions and can evaluate the young players for their futures better. Not sure even doing this would result in the free fall needed to guarantee a lottery pick...

(And of course I know this will never happen)

I feel like you are missing out on the fact that the Knicks have the 7th best record in the league?

Haha - not missing out but just think we may be better served to reload this draft vs drafting lower while taking our knocks in the 1st or best case - 2nd round. I get that we should be happy for the progress but I still feel uneasy with our wagons hitched to Randle.

Reload? How do you reload a whole roster in one draft?

Are you arguing the Knicks should completely redo their roster, or do you want them to have players like Brunson, Quickley, Grimes and Robinson and ALSO be one of the NBA's worst teams?

As a result I truly believe we will need to move on from RJ to maximize talent on this roster and would prefer to attach him to one of our picks to move up and land better talent...tanking would help this scenario which IMO offers greater long-term opportunities.

Can you cite an example of the kind of trade you're advocating for?

Since we are riding with Thibs and Randle I think relocating RJ is the only significant move to make at the moment. I am not a Randle fan and believe we are limited with running the offense through him. That said he has done a 180 and played much better...so with Brunson, Grimes, Randle and Mitch starting - we could try to maximize what we have by improving the fit at the 3 position. A Mikal Bridges or OG would be ideal if available - but it doesn't seem like they would be or are far too costly. So I look to this deep draft approaching and think using RJ (or Obi) + Dallas pick + our pick if needed (that increases in value if we tank) to move up could give us another opportunity to upgrade our talent. There are a number of SG/SF's that could have a higher ceiling and fit better around Randle. I like Cam Whitmore as an example. Right now it seems RJ could land us a player like Herro - but he doesn't play well defensively.

I think our bench is near perfect and part of the problem is we don't have clear separation of talent from our bench to our starters. IQ is a good example of this point. If we find a better fit at the 3 we could leave most of our bench intact and allow them to excel in their respective roles.

Some combination of RJ (or Obi and D.Rose/salary) + our pick(12) and Dallas pick (15) to move up for a player like Cam Whitmore (this is situation where we tank so our pick is more valuable)

And btw - I would prefer to move Randle and give RJ more time to develop - but that ship seems to have sailed to don't think we should enter next season (5th together) with the RJ and JR combo. I fully understand this won't happen but since a poster started the thread - don't think taking a different path couldn't actually yield some positives long-term.