BigDaddyG wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:Has tanking helped any team ever?

I would say the Spurs, Cavs, Pelican, OKC, Grizz and the Sixers off the top of my head. Houston is a bad example due to 1)the clown they have in ownership and 2) the lack of roster construction. They went in the season thinking Kevin Porter could lead them at point guard. And then people wonder why they're offense (among other things) is dysfunctional.

Tanking can be effective but you have to be careful who you are tanking for. 4 years ago Zion was supposed to be this generational Shaquille O’Neal type of disrupter and it turned out the generational talent was the guy drafted one spot after him Ja

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:This is a good example that the grass not always green on the other side.

I've been in several discussion about tanking. And it depends on the FO and their plan. Tanking alone doesn't work without a plan. And yes it can create a negative culture and prevent star players from joining. But tanking can work if you have a plan and stick to it. Houston should've started building around those 2 and failed at that. Back to the lottery.

That just might be the plan.
Draft Webayana, change the coach, make some trades and build a new culture.
There was no real change to happen this year and Webanyana/scoot might be worth one more seaosn.
Won’t know for 3-5 years.

Maybe.
And what happens if they draft 3rd?

Knickoftime wrote:Has tanking helped any team ever?

Check this out:

https://www.wolfgangsport.com/most-successful-tank-jobs-in-nba-history/

technomaster wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:<snip>

I'm talking the KD/ Russ Thunder and the Kyrie/Lebron Cavs. Considering where the Sixers where post Iverson, I'd have to consider that a success. Their consistently in the title contender conversation now. That's the goal for all franchises.

Sixers... the thing is they didn't technically tank unless you count knowingly drafting a player with broken feet, who wouldn't play for at least a season (he missed his first 2 seasons), tanking.

Here's what they got following Embiid:
* Okafor
* Ben Simmons (missed his 1st year with a busted foot)
* Fultz (thoracic outlet problem)
* Mikal Bridges (traded for... who knows what to the Phoenix Suns?)

I'm not sure if what Phoenix did worked.

Now, here's the thing, they got a quality NBA championship coach. Now I can't really say how great any coach is based on championship count... but we do know that Rivers is capable of getting teams of no-names to .500 records. He has had to a lot of that with the Sixers because the players on that team are sooo fragile.

The tank definitely worked with Cleveland, if only to get Lebron there.

But it took him coming back as a FA to get the ring.

Knickoftime wrote:

technomaster wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:<snip>

I'm talking the KD/ Russ Thunder and the Kyrie/Lebron Cavs. Considering where the Sixers where post Iverson, I'd have to consider that a success. Their consistently in the title contender conversation now. That's the goal for all franchises.

Sixers... the thing is they didn't technically tank unless you count knowingly drafting a player with broken feet, who wouldn't play for at least a season (he missed his first 2 seasons), tanking.

Here's what they got following Embiid:
* Okafor
* Ben Simmons (missed his 1st year with a busted foot)
* Fultz (thoracic outlet problem)
* Mikal Bridges (traded for... who knows what to the Phoenix Suns?)

I'm not sure if what Phoenix did worked.

Now, here's the thing, they got a quality NBA championship coach. Now I can't really say how great any coach is based on championship count... but we do know that Rivers is capable of getting teams of no-names to .500 records. He has had to a lot of that with the Sixers because the players on that team are sooo fragile.

The tank definitely worked with Cleveland, if only to get Lebron there.

But it took him coming back as a FA to get the ring.

The Cavs were nba Siberia before 2003.

But tanking sometimes works out - Duncan. If Houston goes on to win the lottery and ends up with Wembanyama who goes on to be a HOFer and wins a few rings, the plan worked.

At the end of the day, it's ALL LUCK.

ramtour420 wrote:Rockets were a good team with Yao and Tmac. Ever since then they have had their "flash in the pan" moment with and Harden. Now they suck again for the foreseeable future. Tanking in the current day and age just doesn't have the same effectiveness anymore. Philly was the last team to take advantage of tanking on purpose with results to show for it.

Might want to revisit those Harden years. They could not make finals but in his 8 years there they played 85 playoff games. Three of the 8 were first round bounces. Five years won 50 or more games. Peaked with 65 win season!
No doubt disappointments but its was more than a flash, it was a solid era.
Personally those playoff disappointments was due to over achieving in regular season.

Knickoftime wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

technomaster wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:<snip>

I'm talking the KD/ Russ Thunder and the Kyrie/Lebron Cavs. Considering where the Sixers where post Iverson, I'd have to consider that a success. Their consistently in the title contender conversation now. That's the goal for all franchises.

Sixers... the thing is they didn't technically tank unless you count knowingly drafting a player with broken feet, who wouldn't play for at least a season (he missed his first 2 seasons), tanking.

Here's what they got following Embiid:
* Okafor
* Ben Simmons (missed his 1st year with a busted foot)
* Fultz (thoracic outlet problem)
* Mikal Bridges (traded for... who knows what to the Phoenix Suns?)

I'm not sure if what Phoenix did worked.

Now, here's the thing, they got a quality NBA championship coach. Now I can't really say how great any coach is based on championship count... but we do know that Rivers is capable of getting teams of no-names to .500 records. He has had to a lot of that with the Sixers because the players on that team are sooo fragile.

The tank definitely worked with Cleveland, if only to get Lebron there.

But it took him coming back as a FA to get the ring.

The Cavs were nba Siberia before 2003.

Not sure you how mean this. They were still NBA siberia in terms of getting free agents to come to cleveland even with Lebron, which is why he left.

In terms of just success, they were actually a (very) decent NBA franchise from the late 80s to the early 90s.

10 better-than-.500 records between '88 and '98, including a 54 win season and TWO 57 win seasons.

Like the Knicks, those seasons just happened to coincide with Jordan ... is their own division.

PhilC keeps things simple. Facts are inconvenient.

Knickoftime wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

technomaster wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:<snip>

I'm talking the KD/ Russ Thunder and the Kyrie/Lebron Cavs. Considering where the Sixers where post Iverson, I'd have to consider that a success. Their consistently in the title contender conversation now. That's the goal for all franchises.

Sixers... the thing is they didn't technically tank unless you count knowingly drafting a player with broken feet, who wouldn't play for at least a season (he missed his first 2 seasons), tanking.

Here's what they got following Embiid:
* Okafor
* Ben Simmons (missed his 1st year with a busted foot)
* Fultz (thoracic outlet problem)
* Mikal Bridges (traded for... who knows what to the Phoenix Suns?)

I'm not sure if what Phoenix did worked.

Now, here's the thing, they got a quality NBA championship coach. Now I can't really say how great any coach is based on championship count... but we do know that Rivers is capable of getting teams of no-names to .500 records. He has had to a lot of that with the Sixers because the players on that team are sooo fragile.

The tank definitely worked with Cleveland, if only to get Lebron there.

But it took him coming back as a FA to get the ring.

The Cavs were nba Siberia before 2003.

Not sure you how mean this. They were still NBA siberia in terms of getting free agents to come to cleveland even with Lebron, which is why he left.

In terms of just success, they were actually a (very) decent NBA franchise from the late 80s to the early 90s.

10 better-than-.500 records between '88 and '98, including a 54 win season and TWO 57 win seasons.

Like the Knicks, those seasons just happened to coincide with Jordan ... is their own division.

They were not good in the years leading up to the 2002-2003 tank job for Lebron. They were a small market team that got little attention even when they were good like the 1996 Year they were coached by fratello and won 48 games only to get swept by us in round 1. In the years with Lebron they have had constant national media attention to go along with multiple nba finals appearances and a championship

Nalod wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:Rockets were a good team with Yao and Tmac. Ever since then they have had their "flash in the pan" moment with and Harden. Now they suck again for the foreseeable future. Tanking in the current day and age just doesn't have the same effectiveness anymore. Philly was the last team to take advantage of tanking on purpose with results to show for it.

Might want to revisit those Harden years. They could not make finals but in his 8 years there they played 85 playoff games. Three of the 8 were first round bounces. Five years won 50 or more games. Peaked with 65 win season!
No doubt disappointments but its was more than a flash, it was a solid era.
Personally those playoff disappointments was due to over achieving in regular season.