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I would bench RJ for rest of the way
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franco12
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2/23/2023  1:10 PM
fishmike wrote:https://theknickswall.com/what-going-on-with-rj-barrett/

I get that Thibs is trying to protect his players, but really, are we to believe our eyes or what Thibs tells us isn't a major regression?

Even Clyde Frazier had some choice words, citing Barrett as the team’s worst defender, a claim Tom Thibodeau has pushed back on. “The way it works, defensively, it’s five guys working together, and the people that are tracking things, there’s no context to it,” Thibodeau said of Barrett’s defensive criticisms. “You don’t know whose responsibility it is to switch, you don’t know whose responsibility it is to show, you don’t know if there is a responsibility to stay down. You don’t know any of that.”

After reading this piece, I had no idea his recent performance has been this bad. You can't shoot 24% from 3 and have a future in this league.
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Chandler
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2/23/2023  2:10 PM
Is Nash able to be an assistant coach? would that help, assuming Thibs was ok with it
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ramtour420
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2/23/2023  2:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2023  2:15 PM
Chandler wrote:Is Nash able to be an assistant coach? would that help, assuming Thibs was ok with it

That would be sweet!!! 🧁 Could definitely help with RJs passing. I can see it already: Thibs and Nash form a perfect concoction to take the Knicks all the way !!

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
blkexec
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2/23/2023  3:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2023  3:39 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
Chandler wrote:Is Nash able to be an assistant coach? would that help, assuming Thibs was ok with it

That would be sweet!!! 🧁 Could definitely help with RJs passing. I can see it already: Thibs and Nash form a perfect concoction to take the Knicks all the way !!

I see Nash impact on Brunson more than RJ. I'm going to assume Nash is already giving his god son an earful, after every bad game. Whats interesting is their style of play is so opposite of each other. RJ seems like the type of kid where adults are like, ok do that again. Yes just keep playing down hill like that and you will make it in the league.

But all seriousness, maybe the break has soften me up. But I have faith that RJ will do a complete 180. I'm just not confident in all 3 players being consistent at the same time. It's like when RJ has the ball, just watch Randle's body language. He always looks visibly frustrated. And I'm sure that goes for everybody. Once he puts his head down, you might as well start getting back on defense. In all seriousness, and for the sake of the team, I hope he improves.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
fishmike
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2/23/2023  5:44 PM
blkexec wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Chandler wrote:Is Nash able to be an assistant coach? would that help, assuming Thibs was ok with it

That would be sweet!!! 🧁 Could definitely help with RJs passing. I can see it already: Thibs and Nash form a perfect concoction to take the Knicks all the way !!

I see Nash impact on Brunson more than RJ. I'm going to assume Nash is already giving his god son an earful, after every bad game. Whats interesting is their style of play is so opposite of each other. RJ seems like the type of kid where adults are like, ok do that again. Yes just keep playing down hill like that and you will make it in the league.

But all seriousness, maybe the break has soften me up. But I have faith that RJ will do a complete 180. I'm just not confident in all 3 players being consistent at the same time. It's like when RJ has the ball, just watch Randle's body language. He always looks visibly frustrated. And I'm sure that goes for everybody. Once he puts his head down, you might as well start getting back on defense. In all seriousness, and for the sake of the team, I hope he improves.

he's got a history of strong finishes. Fingers crossed. I would to call him a long term piece but I am seeing "preserve asset" more and more.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
OldFan
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2/23/2023  6:51 PM
If we were just worried about winning now Brunson quickly hart randle and Robinson start and play the most minutes. Grimes is the first guy off the bench. But that works only if everyone puts their egos aside. Probably not realistic.
HofstraBBall
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2/23/2023  7:19 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:The Knicks are winning, RJ is playing with the reserves just as much as the starters, and he’s only finishing games when he’s playing well. Benching him would piss him off and disrupt chemistry. And for wha benefit? There’s more downside than upside since he’s already playing with the second unit.

Yep, exactly. Have to look at the cons of such a decision more closely. We have witnessed Thibs sitting RJ in the fourth..RJs reaction wasn't stellar. Hart guarding SF in the starting lineup will wear the man down and make him less effective overall. Hart, as a sub, also fits better with his uptempo play more so than with the starters because we already have pieces that fit the running game on the bench, not so much with the starters.What RJ seems to lack is the understanding that scoring at the basket would be easier for him if his defender wasn't 100% sure that RJ will not pass. So, as was previously mentioned, RJ really needs to up his passing game to open up his drives.

Agree with most. However, feel the move will be Hart for Grimes..

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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2/23/2023  7:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2023  7:30 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:The Knicks are winning, RJ is playing with the reserves just as much as the starters, and he’s only finishing games when he’s playing well. Benching him would piss him off and disrupt chemistry. And for wha benefit? There’s more downside than upside since he’s already playing with the second unit.

Yep, exactly. Have to look at the cons of such a decision more closely. We have witnessed Thibs sitting RJ in the fourth..RJs reaction wasn't stellar. Hart guarding SF in the starting lineup will wear the man down and make him less effective overall. Hart, as a sub, also fits better with his uptempo play more so than with the starters because we already have pieces that fit the running game on the bench, not so much with the starters.What RJ seems to lack is the understanding that scoring at the basket would be easier for him if his defender wasn't 100% sure that RJ will not pass. So, as was previously mentioned, RJ really needs to up his passing game to open up his drives.

One thing people don’t always consider is this isn’t 2k where you just flip guys around with no regard. There’s a human element and a lockerroom/ chemistry dynamic that has to be considered. It’s not as simple as it may seem on paper. When you look at the way things are going right now, why is thibs going to disrupt the team in a major way? This is the nba. Guys just don’t get benched. Something would have to go very wrong for a high profile starter to get benched. RJ either figures it out or he will get traded.

I could not agree more. I have been a HUGE advocate of that, especially when guys say "why didnt coach bench xxx and play yyy" when yyy is like Cam Reddish or some ****.

However WHEN are you able to do it with "with regard"

Its literally been 3.5 years now. Maybe we wait to the offseason to just move him because he's not benchable?

What would the team say> You are giving the minutes to guys who have played better and shot better for 50+ plus games. This is not a bad week.

Is RJ so important to the chemistry of the team we just keep playing no matter what? Is there no end game beyond the offseason?

Again, agree to an extent. However, a FO's job is ABSOLUTELY to find a way to develop it's number three pick, only 22 and has produced even though he still has a lot to improve. Giving up on him at this age is not a good look for a FO. Especially the one that picked him. Benching him does not do anything to continue his rise to where we and they want him to be. As frustrated as I get with his play, there is no other option right now then to hope he plays himself out of a tough stretch and that he continues to improve.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Knixkik
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2/23/2023  7:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2023  7:54 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:The Knicks are winning, RJ is playing with the reserves just as much as the starters, and he’s only finishing games when he’s playing well. Benching him would piss him off and disrupt chemistry. And for wha benefit? There’s more downside than upside since he’s already playing with the second unit.

Yep, exactly. Have to look at the cons of such a decision more closely. We have witnessed Thibs sitting RJ in the fourth..RJs reaction wasn't stellar. Hart guarding SF in the starting lineup will wear the man down and make him less effective overall. Hart, as a sub, also fits better with his uptempo play more so than with the starters because we already have pieces that fit the running game on the bench, not so much with the starters.What RJ seems to lack is the understanding that scoring at the basket would be easier for him if his defender wasn't 100% sure that RJ will not pass. So, as was previously mentioned, RJ really needs to up his passing game to open up his drives.

One thing people don’t always consider is this isn’t 2k where you just flip guys around with no regard. There’s a human element and a lockerroom/ chemistry dynamic that has to be considered. It’s not as simple as it may seem on paper. When you look at the way things are going right now, why is thibs going to disrupt the team in a major way? This is the nba. Guys just don’t get benched. Something would have to go very wrong for a high profile starter to get benched. RJ either figures it out or he will get traded.

I could not agree more. I have been a HUGE advocate of that, especially when guys say "why didnt coach bench xxx and play yyy" when yyy is like Cam Reddish or some ****.

However WHEN are you able to do it with "with regard"

Its literally been 3.5 years now. Maybe we wait to the offseason to just move him because he's not benchable?

What would the team say> You are giving the minutes to guys who have played better and shot better for 50+ plus games. This is not a bad week.

Is RJ so important to the chemistry of the team we just keep playing no matter what? Is there no end game beyond the offseason?

You say keep playing him no matter what like he isn’t the 3rd leading scorer on the team and hasn’t won us a ton of games this year. I forgot what it’s called but seems like many of you are trying to convince yourself it’s been worse than it is as it keeps getting mentioned. I get he’s struggled a bit but he’s still having his career high efficiency and it’s not like he’s been reddish/ Fournier bad. Barrett is still a very good, but inefficient player.
fishmike
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2/23/2023  9:01 PM
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:The Knicks are winning, RJ is playing with the reserves just as much as the starters, and he’s only finishing games when he’s playing well. Benching him would piss him off and disrupt chemistry. And for wha benefit? There’s more downside than upside since he’s already playing with the second unit.

Yep, exactly. Have to look at the cons of such a decision more closely. We have witnessed Thibs sitting RJ in the fourth..RJs reaction wasn't stellar. Hart guarding SF in the starting lineup will wear the man down and make him less effective overall. Hart, as a sub, also fits better with his uptempo play more so than with the starters because we already have pieces that fit the running game on the bench, not so much with the starters.What RJ seems to lack is the understanding that scoring at the basket would be easier for him if his defender wasn't 100% sure that RJ will not pass. So, as was previously mentioned, RJ really needs to up his passing game to open up his drives.

One thing people don’t always consider is this isn’t 2k where you just flip guys around with no regard. There’s a human element and a lockerroom/ chemistry dynamic that has to be considered. It’s not as simple as it may seem on paper. When you look at the way things are going right now, why is thibs going to disrupt the team in a major way? This is the nba. Guys just don’t get benched. Something would have to go very wrong for a high profile starter to get benched. RJ either figures it out or he will get traded.

I could not agree more. I have been a HUGE advocate of that, especially when guys say "why didnt coach bench xxx and play yyy" when yyy is like Cam Reddish or some ****.

However WHEN are you able to do it with "with regard"

Its literally been 3.5 years now. Maybe we wait to the offseason to just move him because he's not benchable?

What would the team say> You are giving the minutes to guys who have played better and shot better for 50+ plus games. This is not a bad week.

Is RJ so important to the chemistry of the team we just keep playing no matter what? Is there no end game beyond the offseason?

You say keep playing him no matter what like he isn’t the 3rd leading scorer on the team and hasn’t won us a ton of games this year. I forgot what it’s called but seems like many of you are trying to convince yourself it’s been worse than it is as it keeps getting mentioned. I get he’s struggled a bit but he’s still having his career high efficiency and it’s not like he’s been reddish/ Fournier bad. Barrett is still a very good, but inefficient player.

most of the #s say he's that bad. I guess I am just hating. Seems glaring to me. I dont want to trash his confidence either, but he's not earning the share of shots he's getting. I dont know any other way to put it than that, and its been an all year thing not a bad stretch thing. Hart/Quickly are competition
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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2/23/2023  9:57 PM
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:The Knicks are winning, RJ is playing with the reserves just as much as the starters, and he’s only finishing games when he’s playing well. Benching him would piss him off and disrupt chemistry. And for wha benefit? There’s more downside than upside since he’s already playing with the second unit.

Yep, exactly. Have to look at the cons of such a decision more closely. We have witnessed Thibs sitting RJ in the fourth..RJs reaction wasn't stellar. Hart guarding SF in the starting lineup will wear the man down and make him less effective overall. Hart, as a sub, also fits better with his uptempo play more so than with the starters because we already have pieces that fit the running game on the bench, not so much with the starters.What RJ seems to lack is the understanding that scoring at the basket would be easier for him if his defender wasn't 100% sure that RJ will not pass. So, as was previously mentioned, RJ really needs to up his passing game to open up his drives.

One thing people don’t always consider is this isn’t 2k where you just flip guys around with no regard. There’s a human element and a lockerroom/ chemistry dynamic that has to be considered. It’s not as simple as it may seem on paper. When you look at the way things are going right now, why is thibs going to disrupt the team in a major way? This is the nba. Guys just don’t get benched. Something would have to go very wrong for a high profile starter to get benched. RJ either figures it out or he will get traded.

I could not agree more. I have been a HUGE advocate of that, especially when guys say "why didnt coach bench xxx and play yyy" when yyy is like Cam Reddish or some ****.

However WHEN are you able to do it with "with regard"

Its literally been 3.5 years now. Maybe we wait to the offseason to just move him because he's not benchable?

What would the team say> You are giving the minutes to guys who have played better and shot better for 50+ plus games. This is not a bad week.

Is RJ so important to the chemistry of the team we just keep playing no matter what? Is there no end game beyond the offseason?

You say keep playing him no matter what like he isn’t the 3rd leading scorer on the team and hasn’t won us a ton of games this year. I forgot what it’s called but seems like many of you are trying to convince yourself it’s been worse than it is as it keeps getting mentioned. I get he’s struggled a bit but he’s still having his career high efficiency and it’s not like he’s been reddish/ Fournier bad. Barrett is still a very good, but inefficient player.

Can you show me the career high efficiency? I’m not seeing it. He had great numbers with Thibs first year where we made the play offs, then not so much. He had a good stretch last year when there was no pressure and Randle was shut down, but so did Obi.

He is the third leading scoring because he’s taking a lot of shots.
SergioNYK
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2/24/2023  11:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/24/2023  11:02 AM
I'm not sure I'd bench RJ but there is no shame in being the Manu off the bench for a team but players today look at it as a demotion and you might lose RJ if you do that. I'd ride with him the rest of the season and hope for the best and evaluate it in the offseason. We're going to need RJ these last 22 games to play well. I personally think he's going to finish the season strong.

And we've been playing well since the Hart trade. I wouldn't touch anything.
jskinny35
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2/24/2023  12:16 PM
I think RJ's minutes will decrease if his inefficiency does... they can try to move him this offseason if this continues. Otherwise - his value goes down and would be harder to move. It's weird as RJ's play improved much in the 2nd half of last season but he clearly is struggling to find his way this year.

It does seem like he may be the odd man out with Brunson and Randle long-term but let's evaluate after the season ends/playoffs.
foosballnick
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2/24/2023  1:13 PM
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:The Knicks are winning, RJ is playing with the reserves just as much as the starters, and he’s only finishing games when he’s playing well. Benching him would piss him off and disrupt chemistry. And for wha benefit? There’s more downside than upside since he’s already playing with the second unit.

Yep, exactly. Have to look at the cons of such a decision more closely. We have witnessed Thibs sitting RJ in the fourth..RJs reaction wasn't stellar. Hart guarding SF in the starting lineup will wear the man down and make him less effective overall. Hart, as a sub, also fits better with his uptempo play more so than with the starters because we already have pieces that fit the running game on the bench, not so much with the starters.What RJ seems to lack is the understanding that scoring at the basket would be easier for him if his defender wasn't 100% sure that RJ will not pass. So, as was previously mentioned, RJ really needs to up his passing game to open up his drives.

One thing people don’t always consider is this isn’t 2k where you just flip guys around with no regard. There’s a human element and a lockerroom/ chemistry dynamic that has to be considered. It’s not as simple as it may seem on paper. When you look at the way things are going right now, why is thibs going to disrupt the team in a major way? This is the nba. Guys just don’t get benched. Something would have to go very wrong for a high profile starter to get benched. RJ either figures it out or he will get traded.

I could not agree more. I have been a HUGE advocate of that, especially when guys say "why didnt coach bench xxx and play yyy" when yyy is like Cam Reddish or some ****.

However WHEN are you able to do it with "with regard"

Its literally been 3.5 years now. Maybe we wait to the offseason to just move him because he's not benchable?

What would the team say> You are giving the minutes to guys who have played better and shot better for 50+ plus games. This is not a bad week.

Is RJ so important to the chemistry of the team we just keep playing no matter what? Is there no end game beyond the offseason?

You say keep playing him no matter what like he isn’t the 3rd leading scorer on the team and hasn’t won us a ton of games this year. I forgot what it’s called but seems like many of you are trying to convince yourself it’s been worse than it is as it keeps getting mentioned. I get he’s struggled a bit but he’s still having his career high efficiency and it’s not like he’s been reddish/ Fournier bad. Barrett is still a very good, but inefficient player.

Knicks fans need a villian / bad guy on the roster to pick on. Yhe reasons have varied....for instance Ewing was picked apart because he always guaranteed a 'ship but could not deliver....Houston because he was one dimensional and not worth his contract, Marbury - well for essentially being Starbury, Melo for high volume/not making players atound him better, Randle for being ISO/Turnover/Middle finger, Now RJ for being Innefficient/No Pass/No Defense.

I'm going to trust the coach with RJ's minutes. Thibs obviously sees something in him that has kept him in the starting lineup. Plus it really is not who starts anyway, its substitution patterns and lineup pairings along the way as well as end of game.
blkexec
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2/24/2023  4:39 PM
SergioNYK wrote:I'm not sure I'd bench RJ but there is no shame in being the Manu off the bench for a team but players today look at it as a demotion and you might lose RJ if you do that. I'd ride with him the rest of the season and hope for the best and evaluate it in the offseason. We're going to need RJ these last 22 games to play well. I personally think he's going to finish the season strong.

And we've been playing well since the Hart trade. I wouldn't touch anything.

I agree and the manu example is a perfect role for RJ. It might take a off season trade to move RJ if that’s the plan. Otherwise I’m with you, keep him where he’s at, don’t change anything. And chalk this up to RJs development plan.

I think he’s going to have an all star second half.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
GustavBahler
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2/25/2023  11:10 AM
I think Thibs has been making the right call with RJ, when it comes to benching. He let RJ start, and IQ finish. Taking RJ out of the starting lineup to begin with, would have caused more drama than it was worth. By benching RJ in the 4th, Thibs is giving Barrett a chance to right the ship, so to speak.

About 20 games left. Im guessing RJ wont be benched this season. But who knows if RJ will be back? Its about fit with the other starters, more than anything IMO.

I wouldnt mind seeing Hartenstein and RJ in the same unit.
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2/25/2023  1:36 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:The Knicks are winning, RJ is playing with the reserves just as much as the starters, and he’s only finishing games when he’s playing well. Benching him would piss him off and disrupt chemistry. And for wha benefit? There’s more downside than upside since he’s already playing with the second unit.

Yep, exactly. Have to look at the cons of such a decision more closely. We have witnessed Thibs sitting RJ in the fourth..RJs reaction wasn't stellar. Hart guarding SF in the starting lineup will wear the man down and make him less effective overall. Hart, as a sub, also fits better with his uptempo play more so than with the starters because we already have pieces that fit the running game on the bench, not so much with the starters.What RJ seems to lack is the understanding that scoring at the basket would be easier for him if his defender wasn't 100% sure that RJ will not pass. So, as was previously mentioned, RJ really needs to up his passing game to open up his drives.

One thing people don’t always consider is this isn’t 2k where you just flip guys around with no regard. There’s a human element and a lockerroom/ chemistry dynamic that has to be considered. It’s not as simple as it may seem on paper. When you look at the way things are going right now, why is thibs going to disrupt the team in a major way? This is the nba. Guys just don’t get benched. Something would have to go very wrong for a high profile starter to get benched. RJ either figures it out or he will get traded.

I could not agree more. I have been a HUGE advocate of that, especially when guys say "why didnt coach bench xxx and play yyy" when yyy is like Cam Reddish or some ****.

However WHEN are you able to do it with "with regard"

Its literally been 3.5 years now. Maybe we wait to the offseason to just move him because he's not benchable?

What would the team say> You are giving the minutes to guys who have played better and shot better for 50+ plus games. This is not a bad week.

Is RJ so important to the chemistry of the team we just keep playing no matter what? Is there no end game beyond the offseason?

You say keep playing him no matter what like he isn’t the 3rd leading scorer on the team and hasn’t won us a ton of games this year. I forgot what it’s called but seems like many of you are trying to convince yourself it’s been worse than it is as it keeps getting mentioned. I get he’s struggled a bit but he’s still having his career high efficiency and it’s not like he’s been reddish/ Fournier bad. Barrett is still a very good, but inefficient player.

most of the #s say he's that bad. I guess I am just hating. Seems glaring to me. I dont want to trash his confidence either, but he's not earning the share of shots he's getting. I dont know any other way to put it than that, and its been an all year thing not a bad stretch thing. Hart/Quickly are competition

This is the issue. The more he shoots, the better chance the team loses. The Knicks would be better off playing Hart, who isn't a great 3 point shooter either, but is better than RJ in every other facet of the game. If RJ wasn't a high pick, he would be on the bench by now.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
ToddTT
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2/25/2023  1:47 PM
So which one of you clowns is Tony?

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
martin
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2/25/2023  1:48 PM
ToddTT wrote:So which one of you clowns is Tony?

hahahahahahahaaha

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Papabear
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2/25/2023  3:02 PM
Papabear Says

I'll give it 2 months and some of you will be getting rid of Hart. I remember when some wanted Quickly gone.

Papabear
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