BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:How about this one?

19-22 RJ to a 21-24 Pierce
https://stathead.com/tiny/8K8yY

Here is 19-22 RJ to 19-22 Wiggins
https://stathead.com/tiny/HFtBj

Here's Ingram....same ages
https://stathead.com/tiny/a3DFg

Paul George from 20-23
https://stathead.com/tiny/h8DFU

Kawai from 20-23
https://stathead.com/tiny/TS22m

The Kawaii, George and Pierce comparisons start falling apart once you dive deeper into the advanced stats. You want to say Wiggins, that's fair. Ingram is close too. But again, I'd say Ingram is probably unrealistic due to the difference in physical tools between the two. Demar DeRozan is probably the best comparison I've seen for making the case toward RJ's path toward stardom. But even then, you have to consider that DeRozan came into the league as a better athlete.

So now we get to pick and choose which stats we follow?

But comparing a 22 year old who came in the league at 19 to a 25 year-old who came into the league at 22 is ok though?

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:How about this one?

19-22 RJ to a 21-24 Pierce
https://stathead.com/tiny/8K8yY

Here is 19-22 RJ to 19-22 Wiggins
https://stathead.com/tiny/HFtBj

Here's Ingram....same ages
https://stathead.com/tiny/a3DFg

Paul George from 20-23
https://stathead.com/tiny/h8DFU

Kawai from 20-23
https://stathead.com/tiny/TS22m

The Kawaii, George and Pierce comparisons start falling apart once you dive deeper into the advanced stats. You want to say Wiggins, that's fair. Ingram is close too. But again, I'd say Ingram is probably unrealistic due to the difference in physical tools between the two. Demar DeRozan is probably the best comparison I've seen for making the case toward RJ's path toward stardom. But even then, you have to consider that DeRozan came into the league as a better athlete.

So now we get to pick and choose which stats we follow?

But comparing a 22 year old who came in the league at 19 to a 25 year-old who came into the league at 22 is ok though?

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:How about this one?

19-22 RJ to a 21-24 Pierce
https://stathead.com/tiny/8K8yY

Here is 19-22 RJ to 19-22 Wiggins
https://stathead.com/tiny/HFtBj

Here's Ingram....same ages
https://stathead.com/tiny/a3DFg

Paul George from 20-23
https://stathead.com/tiny/h8DFU

Kawai from 20-23
https://stathead.com/tiny/TS22m

The Kawaii, George and Pierce comparisons start falling apart once you dive deeper into the advanced stats. You want to say Wiggins, that's fair. Ingram is close too. But again, I'd say Ingram is probably unrealistic due to the difference in physical tools between the two. Demar DeRozan is probably the best comparison I've seen for making the case toward RJ's path toward stardom. But even then, you have to consider that DeRozan came into the league as a better athlete.

So now we get to pick and choose which stats we follow?

But comparing a 22 year old who came in the league at 19 to a 25 year-old who came into the league at 22 is ok though?

No, but I think most fans have become sophisticated that raw stats alone aren't enough to determine actual production on the court. Yes, they do carry some importance, but not as much weight as you want to place on them. I did acknowledge that LeVert was older, but I also countered that RJ did also have more developmental minutes early on. You have to have a more a nuanced look at these numbers, not just cherry pick whatever stats fit your narrative. That's how you come up with out there Kobe comparisons.

I guess I just disagree with the reliance on the numbers. There might be an advanced shooting metric, or some PER 38 or 40 or 36 to try to even stuff out, but numbers are always secondary to me to what I see.

And I'm the first to admit I'm not always 100% right....although I should be.

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a fair comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

I have no problem since RJ did have a lot more developmental minutes in the NBA the LeVert. Yeah, it's not a straight apples to apples comparison, but it's a lot closer than a Kobe comparison. Wouldn't you agree?

No. I think IF you are going to use this type of comparison, you need to be equal as possible. Ages, time in the league, physical development....that all matters. Comparing a 22 year old to a 25 year old in this league like comparing a 20 year old to a 40 year old in real life.

I think comparisons are dumb because players develop different, team usage is different. I can look at a guyvand say he reminds me of this guy style wise or body type wise....but to try a predict the development of a player based on the development of another player is useless to me.

None of the players I put up will have any effect on how RJ develops. You could put up anyone in that type of comparison and make any point you want.

No. There's a huge difference. Yes, Levert was older, but he had a lot injuries earlier on in his college career and his early NBA years. This also plays into development and I will say that RJ has an edge there. In fact, RJs durability and ability to eat up a lot of minutes is one of his strengths.
You may have a point about comparisons. But the fact remains that every NBA franchise uses some sort of comparison model to make decisions on the draft, free agency etc. And they're a lot more advanced than what we're doing here. You can ignore them if you want, but it's the direction the league is heading.

Yea...but never to correlate a player's development to another player's development.

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a fair comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

I have no problem since RJ did have a lot more developmental minutes in the NBA the LeVert. Yeah, it's not a straight apples to apples comparison, but it's a lot closer than a Kobe comparison. Wouldn't you agree?

No. I think IF you are going to use this type of comparison, you need to be equal as possible. Ages, time in the league, physical development....that all matters. Comparing a 22 year old to a 25 year old in this league like comparing a 20 year old to a 40 year old in real life.

I think comparisons are dumb because players develop different, team usage is different. I can look at a guyvand say he reminds me of this guy style wise or body type wise....but to try a predict the development of a player based on the development of another player is useless to me.

None of the players I put up will have any effect on how RJ develops. You could put up anyone in that type of comparison and make any point you want.

No. There's a huge difference. Yes, Levert was older, but he had a lot injuries earlier on in his college career and his early NBA years. This also plays into development and I will say that RJ has an edge there. In fact, RJs durability and ability to eat up a lot of minutes is one of his strengths.
You may have a point about comparisons. But the fact remains that every NBA franchise uses some sort of comparison model to make decisions on the draft, free agency etc. And they're a lot more advanced than what we're doing here. You can ignore them if you want, but it's the direction the league is heading.

Yea...but never to correlate a player's development to another player's development.

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a far comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

RJ has been the same player for the last 3 years. Literally what's he better at since his sophomore/rookie season? (and I like him)

fishmike wrote:

joec32033 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:https://stathead.com/tiny/2lwzr

If you take a closer look at advance stats and factor in that Kobe only played like 16 minutes a game his rookie season, then I'd say this a pipedream. While RJ has made incremental improvements over the course of his career, Kobe SKYROCKETED during his four year spurt. No need for straw man arguments. Why not make a more reasonable RJ comparison, like Caris LeVert? I'm rooting for RJ, but he projects a ceiling of being a solid wing if you look at it objectively. Nothing wrong with that, but definitely not an untouchable.
Caris LeVert comparison: https://stathead.com/tiny/flXGu

its retarded.. and they are nothing alike. Kobe's ascension was stardom. RJ looks like a good NBA bucket better and rotation guy. LeVert is more realistic but hopefully as healthy version.

RJ is 23 soon... the hope is just he can be better BB player. Smarter plays, less TOs and better shots. Basically just be a better player

Phucking Kobe.. this is him reading this post
https://imgur.com/a/gD1VYmc

So a far comparison is a 19-22 year old RJ to a 22-25 year old Lavert?

they are similar players in terms of stats and impact... more impact. Comparing RJ/Kobe is.... well it's Friday so I'll be nice.

RJ has been the same player for the last 3 years. Literally what's he better at since his sophomore/rookie season? (and I like him)

First off I agree he is nothing like Kobe.

Second question...his 3 point shooting is better. Defense is worse. I think he is more comfortable in the clutch and isn't a horrible passer. This season alone within the past month or so he has been dunking to finish, but his finishing around the basket needs major work.

I think it's becoming obvious RJ is going to be at best that third player on a good team. He's a work horse so his shooting will keep improving slightly but he's never going to be a reliable knock down shooter. I actually think he needs to dial it back and stop trying to be an All-Star and concentrate more on being a more complete player, especially on defense. I think right now he's too obsessed with getting shots up and scoring 20 ppg that it takes away from his defense and playmaking. Someone needs to get in his ear and tell him a 15-18 ppg player on better efficiency and much better defense and playmaking is way better then a 22-25 ppg scorer in poor efficiency and no defense.