And finding a shooter who plays defense is hard to do. We had bullock and fans wanted him out fast. We have Burks and traded him to Detroit. I think we had Courtney Lee and traded him away. So we’ve had 3 and D players. That’s not the solution.

WE NEED THIBS TYPE PLAYERS. It doesn’t matter what label we put on them. If Thibs doesn’t trust them they are not playing. Thibs hand picked deuce and he wasn’t a regular rotation player until recently. And Thibs hand picked him from the draft. So as soon as we figure out who’s considered a thibs player, we will go around in circles and end up in the same spot. If thibs is a keeper, then he needs his guys in order to compete.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:I like Fish's suggestion of trading for Westbrook. Of course, the second after we do a trade like that (for an extra body), Thibs will stop trusting the guy we trade for.

I'm not ready to accept the premise that Obi and McBride can't contribute.

I think Obi needs to be featured in the 2nd unit. We have to run plays for him.

And can we get Fournier some minutes.

If we're going to lose games going with 6 players - which may end with a quick first round exit- why not going with 8 or 9, try to develop McBride and Obi- and if we miss the play offs, we have actually accomplished more - finding out if McBride and Obi are keepers and getting a chance of a lottery pick vs mid round first?

Agree

Deuce and Toppin are getting minutes. I don’t think there’s anything we can really learn about them in 20 mins that we can’t learn in 12. They are rotation players right now who simply aren’t doing enough to earn beyond that. And it’s not a knock on them, particularly deuce. He was a 2nd round pick 2 years ago and I think he’s getting an opportunity that few second round picks get, especially on winning teams.

'I don't feel tardy!'

I don't feel like we are a winning team. We're an injury to Randle or Brunson away from another losing streak and staring up at the play in.

And for Obi - he showed last year what he can do if given time and focus.

There is a big difference from being out there for a short stretch and getting 12 minutes vs. being featured, asked to run plays and shoot over 20+.

We really only started to win when we got Grimes back and McBride into the rotation to play with energy. I think there was a stat showing our record when some of these players get 20 mins being really good.

I think the statement that Thibs only trusts a few players is true - and maybe he is right. If Obi can't contribute to 'winning', he should be traded.

Now - I think we would have had a better chance yesterday of winning if Obi had gotten more meaningful minutes. Why is Thibs playing RJ 49 minutes when he is shooting like garbage from 3?

Obi was 2 of 4 from the field, 1 for 1 from 3 in 11 minutes.

We got 2 points out of Hart.

RJ & Randle combined for 3 of 15 from 3. The second of a back to back, and they showed they're not super human.

I know it's hard to go small against Toronto - but I also know Thibs doesn't like to ever go small.

were arent that good... you are right, but that's ok when the rotation is < 24 years old. We are literally learning to win game by game here and doing a decent job.

Thibs likes aggressive players that attack the rim and Westbrook is 100% that and he's a great disher which guys like IQ/Obi/Hart (the guy's he would run with) would really benefit from. Its a 1 year rental (or maybe we love him and he comes back in that role cause phuck it he loves NYC, who knows). Point is its a short term commitment and helps our roster some (Rose has to wanna go, and I think he's enjoy playing w/ Lebron)

I wish Thibs would give a little more rope to Obi & McBride and heck Fournier - but his spots aren't changing and I now 100% agree with your idea of adding Westbrook or Grant or someone like that - a veteran that can defend and hold their own in the offense.

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:I like Fish's suggestion of trading for Westbrook. Of course, the second after we do a trade like that (for an extra body), Thibs will stop trusting the guy we trade for.

I'm not ready to accept the premise that Obi and McBride can't contribute.

I think Obi needs to be featured in the 2nd unit. We have to run plays for him.

And can we get Fournier some minutes.

If we're going to lose games going with 6 players - which may end with a quick first round exit- why not going with 8 or 9, try to develop McBride and Obi- and if we miss the play offs, we have actually accomplished more - finding out if McBride and Obi are keepers and getting a chance of a lottery pick vs mid round first?

Agree

Deuce and Toppin are getting minutes. I don’t think there’s anything we can really learn about them in 20 mins that we can’t learn in 12. They are rotation players right now who simply aren’t doing enough to earn beyond that. And it’s not a knock on them, particularly deuce. He was a 2nd round pick 2 years ago and I think he’s getting an opportunity that few second round picks get, especially on winning teams.

'I don't feel tardy!'

I don't feel like we are a winning team. We're an injury to Randle or Brunson away from another losing streak and staring up at the play in.

And for Obi - he showed last year what he can do if given time and focus.

There is a big difference from being out there for a short stretch and getting 12 minutes vs. being featured, asked to run plays and shoot over 20+.

We really only started to win when we got Grimes back and McBride into the rotation to play with energy. I think there was a stat showing our record when some of these players get 20 mins being really good.

I think the statement that Thibs only trusts a few players is true - and maybe he is right. If Obi can't contribute to 'winning', he should be traded.

Now - I think we would have had a better chance yesterday of winning if Obi had gotten more meaningful minutes. Why is Thibs playing RJ 49 minutes when he is shooting like garbage from 3?

Obi was 2 of 4 from the field, 1 for 1 from 3 in 11 minutes.

We got 2 points out of Hart.

RJ & Randle combined for 3 of 15 from 3. The second of a back to back, and they showed they're not super human.

I know it's hard to go small against Toronto - but I also know Thibs doesn't like to ever go small.

were arent that good... you are right, but that's ok when the rotation is < 24 years old. We are literally learning to win game by game here and doing a decent job.

Thibs likes aggressive players that attack the rim and Westbrook is 100% that and he's a great disher which guys like IQ/Obi/Hart (the guy's he would run with) would really benefit from. Its a 1 year rental (or maybe we love him and he comes back in that role cause phuck it he loves NYC, who knows). Point is its a short term commitment and helps our roster some (Rose has to wanna go, and I think he's enjoy playing w/ Lebron)

I wish Thibs would give a little more rope to Obi & McBride and heck Fournier - but his spots aren't changing and I now 100% agree with your idea of adding Westbrook or Grant or someone like that - a veteran that can defend and hold their own in the offense.

The question is does Thibs agree. He moves to his own beat. I thought I had him figured out as far as the type of players he like, but I was wrong. He clearly has another way to justify PT outside of what we see on TV. So that’s why it’s hard to guess which players thibs will play or not play. No clue.

That is why whatever the FO does, he needs to be 100% on board with said move, and if he gets a shiney new toy and decides he doesn't want it, then he has some splaining to do!

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:In the hindsight thing, moving up for Duarte would have been a mistake.
Maybe we do a Toppin for Duarte trade as the need is there.
Is it that Thibs don’t trust some guys, or have some guys not earned that trust?

Toppin for Duarte has been a commonly mentioned possibility, but we would be trading one rotation player for another which doesn’t solve the problem. An expanded idea would be Toppin and reddish for Duarte and Daniel Theis. Theis hasn’t played yet this year but is close. But he’s a guy who I can envision perfectly suited for a 12-14 mpg energy role behind Randle, plus being a defensive guy thibs can trust. And Duarte has been erratic this year but offers enough on both sides of the ball to play 20 mpg. IQ, Duarte, Theis (who can play both frontcourt positions defensively) and Hart, with Deuce as the 10th man for defensive purposes is a bench rotation I can buy. The question would be is if Indiana is willing to help us. They would have to drop out pretty well over the next couple weeks.

Daniel Theis hasn't played this season, out indefinitely with knee surgery. Also has 2 years beyond this one for contract.

That’s how desperate we are for playable players.

No it's just a lack of a good idea and fit. Obi just gotta play better

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:In the hindsight thing, moving up for Duarte would have been a mistake.
Maybe we do a Toppin for Duarte trade as the need is there.
Is it that Thibs don’t trust some guys, or have some guys not earned that trust?

Toppin for Duarte has been a commonly mentioned possibility, but we would be trading one rotation player for another which doesn’t solve the problem. An expanded idea would be Toppin and reddish for Duarte and Daniel Theis. Theis hasn’t played yet this year but is close. But he’s a guy who I can envision perfectly suited for a 12-14 mpg energy role behind Randle, plus being a defensive guy thibs can trust. And Duarte has been erratic this year but offers enough on both sides of the ball to play 20 mpg. IQ, Duarte, Theis (who can play both frontcourt positions defensively) and Hart, with Deuce as the 10th man for defensive purposes is a bench rotation I can buy. The question would be is if Indiana is willing to help us. They would have to drop out pretty well over the next couple weeks.

Daniel Theis hasn't played this season, out indefinitely with knee surgery. Also has 2 years beyond this one for contract.

That’s how desperate we are for playable players.

No it's just a lack of a good idea and fit. Obi just gotta play better

I’m with you. I’m not saying I would do it 100%. I’m just talking about what I can see realistically happening and what I can buy. I want Toppin to play better and be a part of the future here. I just make a thread echoing that on he and IQ. But for the way they are using Obi and he is developing, theis is a better player for that role if you’re also adding a guy like Duarte and not giving up any picks.

Obi is 24 with a birthday in March. He will be a 26 y.o rfa. He reportedly is always in the gym practicing so maybe this is all there is. If he doesn’t find that killer instinct soon he is going to be looking for a new job regardless of who his agents daddy is

MS wrote:If I’m the front office and we drafted Obi over an All NBA player we needed and was the biggest lay up in the draft, the last thing I’m doing is trading him to a team with that player who will elevate his game to another level.

Obi goes West otherwise it doesn’t make sense. Thibs has destroyed his value and confidence.

Still don’t know how we bungled free agency a year ago so badly. This shouldn’t be an issue finding a wing that can contribute.

MS wrote:If I’m the front office and we drafted Obi over an All NBA player we needed and was the biggest lay up in the draft, the last thing I’m doing is trading him to a team with that player who will elevate his game to another level.

Obi goes West otherwise it doesn’t make sense. Thibs has destroyed his value and confidence.

Still don’t know how we bungled free agency a year ago so badly. This shouldn’t be an issue finding a wing that can contribute.

We signed Brunson. its OK.
Wing? RJ.
Cam was to fill in the gap and contribute. he isn't.
Who did we wiff on this past year that could play wing off the bench?
Who did we offer? who refused?

Nalod wrote:

MS wrote:If I’m the front office and we drafted Obi over an All NBA player we needed and was the biggest lay up in the draft, the last thing I’m doing is trading him to a team with that player who will elevate his game to another level.

Obi goes West otherwise it doesn’t make sense. Thibs has destroyed his value and confidence.

Still don’t know how we bungled free agency a year ago so badly. This shouldn’t be an issue finding a wing that can contribute.

We signed Brunson. its OK.
Wing? RJ.
Cam was to fill in the gap and contribute. he isn't.
Who did we wiff on this past year that could play wing off the bench?
Who did we offer? who refused?

There were several wings in the 2022 draft. We could have traded back instead of out of the draft. Instead we have a bunch of protected picks. Maybe they have value in a trade? I dunno. What would you give up for Rose, Redish, Fournier and protected picks……me, not much. Teams are going to want players we don’t want to trade like IQ and Grimes. We can kick the tires on trade rumors leading up to the trade deadline but you have to give to get. One sided message board trade ideas aren’t likely in the real world of the nba.

I'm not looking forward to Obi being traded. But if his future in NY is being parked in the corner. Then for his sake and the Knicks, I hope we trade him for a player who is a better fit. Im sure fans would regret it. But it feels like he's only going to spin his wheels in NY. Not unless his role changes soon.