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Thibbs Needs to Sit RJ more and give Grimes 25-30 minutes a game
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martin
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11/21/2022  12:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/21/2022  1:00 PM
SergioNYK wrote:We didn't draft RJ third and just gave him a $105M to sit on the bench. We have no choice but to let him figure it out and hope he snaps out of this funk soon. Thibs could and should limit his playing time but sitting him would completely destroy him imo.

I do think Thibs and Brunson need to make an effort to get him some easy buckets. I know he's missing point blank layups at a crazy rate but get him something slashing to the hoop. And RJ himself needs to put in the extra work and play smarter. Concentrate more on defense and playmaking. Especially on those drives where he's met and with 3 defenders. Kick it out!

Knicks run all sorts of PnR and DHO for RJ going to his left every game. And they pass to him when he is wide open at the 3point line. I'm not sure what more you can do.

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franco12
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11/21/2022  1:13 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:I must sound like a broken record by now....but, RJ should be playing against other teams 2nd unit.

I won’t sell out on RJ until he’s got more shooting around him. He drives into a packed lane every game. Get grimes going and get a center who can shoot and watch a difference. RJ needs space to operate. Hartenstein was supposed to bring shooting and playmaking at the center and those things are nowhere to be found, so we are stuck with the same issues.

well the next coach wont let Obi/IQ have a 2 game stretch where they shoot 1-20 combined. Unacceptable! How Thibs lets stuff like this (along with RJ's missing) is beyond me

Are you on the fire Thibs band wagon.

It's funny because I have been asking for Obi to get more minutes - and he has performed great up until this recent stretch.

No one on this roster- besides EF - can shoot.
BigDaddyG
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11/21/2022  1:14 PM
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:We didn't draft RJ third and just gave him a $105M to sit on the bench. We have no choice but to let him figure it out and hope he snaps out of this funk soon. Thibs could and should limit his playing time but sitting him would completely destroy him imo.

I do think Thibs and Brunson need to make an effort to get him some easy buckets. I know he's missing point blank layups at a crazy rate but get him something slashing to the hoop. And RJ himself needs to put in the extra work and play smarter. Concentrate more on defense and playmaking. Especially on those drives where he's met and with 3 defenders. Kick it out!

Knicks run all sorts of PnR and DHO for RJ going to his left every game. And they pass to him when he is wide open at the 3point line. I'm not sure what more you can do.

I think that's part of the larger problem. The only way RJ thinks he can contribute is by scoring and he's not that good a scorer. Sure he can get hot from time to time, but he's not a guy I feel comfortable relying on for 20ppg every night. He has to realize that 20 a game on below average efficiency means nothing. Cut his shots back. No one will complain if he averages 16-17 a game, but makes good reads and kick outs on drives. Stardom is not in the cards for him and that's OK. He can still be a good player that contributes to winning. Rudy Gay is the perfect example. Gay went from being an efficient chucker to a solid NBA player who most coaches would feel leaving on the floor during crunch time.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
fishmike
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11/21/2022  1:18 PM
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:I must sound like a broken record by now....but, RJ should be playing against other teams 2nd unit.

I won’t sell out on RJ until he’s got more shooting around him. He drives into a packed lane every game. Get grimes going and get a center who can shoot and watch a difference. RJ needs space to operate. Hartenstein was supposed to bring shooting and playmaking at the center and those things are nowhere to be found, so we are stuck with the same issues.

well the next coach wont let Obi/IQ have a 2 game stretch where they shoot 1-20 combined. Unacceptable! How Thibs lets stuff like this (along with RJ's missing) is beyond me

Are you on the fire Thibs band wagon.

It's funny because I have been asking for Obi to get more minutes - and he has performed great up until this recent stretch.

No one on this roster- besides EF - can shoot.

that's not a bandwagon, that's a ship of fools.

It was of course a joke. Kind of like this being a coaching problem. RJ is missing open look after open look. I'm not sure I remember a player being this cold. Obi/IQ 1-20 over the last 2 games.

Do you think they are not putting in the work?
Do you think they are not playing hard?
IS there a toxic clubhouse?

These are reasons you fire coaches.

Its like... hey coach why you gotta bury Obi?
Then its like.... "oh"

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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11/21/2022  1:18 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:We didn't draft RJ third and just gave him a $105M to sit on the bench. We have no choice but to let him figure it out and hope he snaps out of this funk soon. Thibs could and should limit his playing time but sitting him would completely destroy him imo.

I do think Thibs and Brunson need to make an effort to get him some easy buckets. I know he's missing point blank layups at a crazy rate but get him something slashing to the hoop. And RJ himself needs to put in the extra work and play smarter. Concentrate more on defense and playmaking. Especially on those drives where he's met and with 3 defenders. Kick it out!

Knicks run all sorts of PnR and DHO for RJ going to his left every game. And they pass to him when he is wide open at the 3point line. I'm not sure what more you can do.

I think that's part of the larger problem. The only way RJ thinks he can contribute is by scoring and he's not that good a scorer. Sure he can get hot from time to time, but he's not a guy I feel comfortable relying on for 20ppg every night. He has to realize that 20 a game on below average efficiency means nothing. Cut his shots back. No one will complain if he averages 16-17 a game, but makes good reads and kick outs on drives. Stardom is not in the cards for him and that's OK. He can still be a good player that contributes to winning. Rudy Gay is the perfect example. Gay went from being an efficient chucker to a solid NBA player who most coaches would feel leaving on the floor during crunch time.

You are not wrong.

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franco12
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11/21/2022  1:18 PM
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:

Macri is a fan of UK...I've been saying Randle and RJ are a bad fit for years...You can add Robinson into the mix as well. Then we sign Brunson(who is our best player) who performs best in the midrange. So, that's 4 guys that play the most minutes together that are all most comfortable 10 feet and in.

All of these trade scenarios involving moving IQ, or Obi or Rose or even Evan are peripheral moves and wont fix the core issues. This core needs to be broken up if we are going to move this thing forward.

Not only do they not work on the offensive end, but the combo of Brunson, RJ, and Randle don't work defensively either...

I wish RJ were comfortable 10 feet in!
franco12
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11/21/2022  1:26 PM
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:I must sound like a broken record by now....but, RJ should be playing against other teams 2nd unit.

I won’t sell out on RJ until he’s got more shooting around him. He drives into a packed lane every game. Get grimes going and get a center who can shoot and watch a difference. RJ needs space to operate. Hartenstein was supposed to bring shooting and playmaking at the center and those things are nowhere to be found, so we are stuck with the same issues.

well the next coach wont let Obi/IQ have a 2 game stretch where they shoot 1-20 combined. Unacceptable! How Thibs lets stuff like this (along with RJ's missing) is beyond me

Are you on the fire Thibs band wagon.

It's funny because I have been asking for Obi to get more minutes - and he has performed great up until this recent stretch.

No one on this roster- besides EF - can shoot.

that's not a bandwagon, that's a ship of fools.

It was of course a joke. Kind of like this being a coaching problem. RJ is missing open look after open look. I'm not sure I remember a player being this cold. Obi/IQ 1-20 over the last 2 games.

Do you think they are not putting in the work?
Do you think they are not playing hard?
IS there a toxic clubhouse?

These are reasons you fire coaches.

Its like... hey coach why you gotta bury Obi?
Then its like.... "oh"

I think it might be a coaches problem- and that is not to say Thibs is a bad coach- far from it - just maybe a bad fit with this roster at this time. Maybe his words aren't connecting. So he is trying to say the right things, but this group just isn't able to take that coaching and play better.

I'll reference one of my favorite coaches and he was able to get stellar PG play out of the likes of Raymond Felton and Chris Duhon. As a thought exercise, go back in time to the start of this season and put D'Antoni in as head coach - and I am not saying our record would be better- it might be worst! But I think it's fair to say our shooting % would be stronger.

I will say this - we're probably stuck with this group and the liklihood of a scrap by season, and a giant miss in the talent lotto.
fishmike
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11/21/2022  1:29 PM
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:

Macri is a fan of UK...I've been saying Randle and RJ are a bad fit for years...You can add Robinson into the mix as well. Then we sign Brunson(who is our best player) who performs best in the midrange. So, that's 4 guys that play the most minutes together that are all most comfortable 10 feet and in.

All of these trade scenarios involving moving IQ, or Obi or Rose or even Evan are peripheral moves and wont fix the core issues. This core needs to be broken up if we are going to move this thing forward.

Not only do they not work on the offensive end, but the combo of Brunson, RJ, and Randle don't work defensively either...

they should nuke it... I get why we resigned Randle/RJ but damn if one guy didnt have an outlier season and the other is a career .415 FG% and we gave him $100mm+

Pretty sure Randle is a favorite to stay and... I think RJ's extension makes him hard to trade.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
GustavBahler
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11/21/2022  3:15 PM
Has RJ ever been taken out of a starting lineup going back to middle school? Not counting an injury.

IDK. As in life, sometimes your game has to hit rock bottom before you get things going again. RJ really hasnt experienced that part of playing organised ball. Might give him the added incentive to find new ways to contribute, and become more consistent at what he's doing now.

Randle might play better at this stage of his career with a coach who is more talented on offense than Thibs. In a system that moves the ball, wont allow Randle to overdribble. I think he would do well. Sometimes the talk about Randle treats him like he's devoid of talent. Which isnt the case.

Still believe all the FO needs is for Randle to have a good stretch before the trade deadline, and he wont be very hard to move. And not at a fire sale price. His contract isnt as bad for his production compared to the new ones they're giving out these days. Wasnt signed for the going max rate at the time, as well.
blkexec
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11/21/2022  4:13 PM
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:I must sound like a broken record by now....but, RJ should be playing against other teams 2nd unit.

I won’t sell out on RJ until he’s got more shooting around him. He drives into a packed lane every game. Get grimes going and get a center who can shoot and watch a difference. RJ needs space to operate. Hartenstein was supposed to bring shooting and playmaking at the center and those things are nowhere to be found, so we are stuck with the same issues.

well the next coach wont let Obi/IQ have a 2 game stretch where they shoot 1-20 combined. Unacceptable! How Thibs lets stuff like this (along with RJ's missing) is beyond me

Are you on the fire Thibs band wagon.

It's funny because I have been asking for Obi to get more minutes - and he has performed great up until this recent stretch.

No one on this roster- besides EF - can shoot.

that's not a bandwagon, that's a ship of fools.

It was of course a joke. Kind of like this being a coaching problem. RJ is missing open look after open look. I'm not sure I remember a player being this cold. Obi/IQ 1-20 over the last 2 games.

Do you think they are not putting in the work?
Do you think they are not playing hard?
IS there a toxic clubhouse?

These are reasons you fire coaches.

Its like... hey coach why you gotta bury Obi?
Then its like.... "oh"

HS coaches yes, college coaches maybe. NBA coaches? No

In the NBA or NFL, coaches are easier to replace than an entire team. Coaches are the scape goat and all coaches understand that when they sign the dotted line. Mike Woodson was fired and he's known as one of the best coaches the knicks had, if you look at all the coaching records. And Mikes reason for his firing is not on your list. So coaches get fired for a variety of reasons.

Sometimes the FO fires a coach like Thibs because he doesn't fit the direction that the FO is now going towards. If they continue to draft well (Obi, IQ, Grimes, Sims) while adding stop gap vets like Kemba and Fournier, you don't need an old school coach from the 80s to coach a young team. You need a coach that can relate to todays NBA players.

It's easy for the FO to let Thibs go as the scape goat....vs....the FO saying, "we F'ed up on all of our picks". None of the FO picks are starters. Most of the FO aquisition vet players have been duds. Is that Thibs fault? Nope. Will he take the fall? Yep. It's part of the job, which is why the line for the next NBA coach is short. Especially for the knicks. Until we can get a FO personnel that has the team building skills to put a solid team together, we will always look to blame the coach or highest paid player. Thats the nature of the beast.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
TPercy
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11/21/2022  4:47 PM
I don't get it. I don't think he's lazy or anything either I think he has a mentality thing and his game improvement priorities are just messed up.
The Future is Bright!
Nalod
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11/21/2022  5:09 PM
Woodson got fired because Phil Jax was hired and he wanted Steve Kerr to run his schematic. Getting fired from knicks does not always have to be for a good reason.
RJ went for 30 vs. Pistons and been in a 5 game funk.
5 games and fans are freaking out.
Kicks on 2-2 road trip and some want to blow it up?
Road trips are often when teams implode. This one is far from it.
Teams are inquiring because we have a logjam and its not unreasonable for the yoot to want opportunity here or elsewhere.
Duece is in year 2. Can't say he a bust or has right to ask for more. Obi and IQ have. Grimes is getting his.

As for rumor/blog Evan can be moved with teams wanting a pick seems premature. Some blogs tap into our anger and we run with it.
I have no doubt Evan wants out and and he should.
ToddTT
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11/21/2022  5:11 PM
Rookie wrote:I must sound like a broken record by now....but, RJ should be playing against other teams 2nd unit.

We can go deeper…


Send his ass to the g league.

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
ramtour420
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11/21/2022  5:18 PM
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:I must sound like a broken record by now....but, RJ should be playing against other teams 2nd unit.

I won’t sell out on RJ until he’s got more shooting around him. He drives into a packed lane every game. Get grimes going and get a center who can shoot and watch a difference. RJ needs space to operate. Hartenstein was supposed to bring shooting and playmaking at the center and those things are nowhere to be found, so we are stuck with the same issues.

Let's pretend that we get the Joker on this team. Are we going to run plays where he gets the ball and guys cut to the basket? There aren't any such plays in our playbook. Are we going to get away from the 1on 1 fockin garbage $hit we have been running for a few years now? No. Will we play inside out ? You know the answer. Having Hartenstein do only handoffs and pretend he is Mitch is a damn crime.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
HofstraBBall
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11/21/2022  5:26 PM
martin wrote:
SergioNYK wrote:We didn't draft RJ third and just gave him a $105M to sit on the bench. We have no choice but to let him figure it out and hope he snaps out of this funk soon. Thibs could and should limit his playing time but sitting him would completely destroy him imo.

I do think Thibs and Brunson need to make an effort to get him some easy buckets. I know he's missing point blank layups at a crazy rate but get him something slashing to the hoop. And RJ himself needs to put in the extra work and play smarter. Concentrate more on defense and playmaking. Especially on those drives where he's met and with 3 defenders. Kick it out!

Knicks run all sorts of PnR and DHO for RJ going to his left every game. And they pass to him when he is wide open at the 3point line. I'm not sure what more you can do.

Why would they notice that? Or the fact 95% of our roster shot 18% from three in one game. Nah....It's obviously the Thibs schemes!

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
HofstraBBall
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11/21/2022  5:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/21/2022  6:14 PM
fishmike wrote:
franco12 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Rookie wrote:I must sound like a broken record by now....but, RJ should be playing against other teams 2nd unit.

I won’t sell out on RJ until he’s got more shooting around him. He drives into a packed lane every game. Get grimes going and get a center who can shoot and watch a difference. RJ needs space to operate. Hartenstein was supposed to bring shooting and playmaking at the center and those things are nowhere to be found, so we are stuck with the same issues.

well the next coach wont let Obi/IQ have a 2 game stretch where they shoot 1-20 combined. Unacceptable! How Thibs lets stuff like this (along with RJ's missing) is beyond me

Are you on the fire Thibs band wagon.

It's funny because I have been asking for Obi to get more minutes - and he has performed great up until this recent stretch.

No one on this roster- besides EF - can shoot.

that's not a bandwagon, that's a ship of fools.

It was of course a joke. Kind of like this being a coaching problem. RJ is missing open look after open look. I'm not sure I remember a player being this cold. Obi/IQ 1-20 over the last 2 games.

Do you think they are not putting in the work?
Do you think they are not playing hard?
IS there a toxic clubhouse?

These are reasons you fire coaches.

Its like... hey coach why you gotta bury Obi?
Then its like.... "oh"

Thibs gotta go. There were several plays in which the ball was rotated by several players in well thought out passes to a wide open side three for RJ. Of course, he missed it. Why? Bad scheme.

I also blame Thibs for our defensive schemes. Just look at this one where he tells Obi to move in circles, force the Center to cover a wing and then lets the driving player score. Thibs gotta go!

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
TheGame
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11/21/2022  6:28 PM
martin wrote:
TheGame wrote:It has been clear to everyone, except Thibbs, that RJ is off and has been hurting the team. While he has continued the draw fouls, he cannot hit his 3s and cannot really finish his layups. The other players are starting to look reluctant to pass him the ball because he usually just jacks up a bad shot (or even if it is a good shot, he misses it). Reduce RJs minutes. It will be a good lesson for him to learn that efficiency is important. Grimes’ first extended game action results in 10 points and 8 assists (Grimes used to be a PG). Prior to the season, this was supposed to be Grimes breakout year. It is time Thibbs gets this kid on the court with regular minutes, and he needs to stop playing RJ 34-35 minutes. Reduce RJs minutes down to 20-25 minutes until he improves his efficiency and get Grimes in the game more.

IMHO the make or break moment for Thibs will be when Grimes is grooving and showing the team he is out of the injury zone AND Cam comes back and is playing well.

If RJ continues to suck at that time and Grimes/Cam performing and Thibs starts RJ (or plays him more than those guys), he will lose team.

That will be the test. I agree that if RJ is still shooting 25% from 3 and Thibbs is still playing him 35 minutes a game, then it will be time to start questioning whether Thibbs is the right coach for the team.

Trust the Process
Chandler
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11/21/2022  7:03 PM
The celts often say it’s not who starts a game that matters. It’s who finishes. Knicks should employ this. If RJ or Julius or anyone else is having an off night then he doesn’t finish.


And I don’t agree that RJ thinks the only way to contribute is w scoring. I do agree he’s pressing too much and playing tight. He is a good player who has the potential to be very good but I’m not imagining a future where he’s dominant like Zion or electric like Ja. That doesn’t mean he’s second unit. But he does need to earn his minutes and thibs needs to adapt

There are a lot of guys right now not playing well.

(5)(7)
blkexec
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11/22/2022  7:32 AM
Chandler wrote:The celts often say it’s not who starts a game that matters. It’s who finishes. Knicks should employ this. If RJ or Julius or anyone else is having an off night then he doesn’t finish.


And I don’t agree that RJ thinks the only way to contribute is w scoring. I do agree he’s pressing too much and playing tight. He is a good player who has the potential to be very good but I’m not imagining a future where he’s dominant like Zion or electric like Ja. That doesn’t mean he’s second unit. But he does need to earn his minutes and thibs needs to adapt

There are a lot of guys right now not playing well.

Certain players do not have to earn mins, they already got it. JB, RJ & Randle.
But they could definitely lose mins. This is why players love thibs. He thinks from an 82 game season perspective, meaning no drastic changes with his big 3 so early in the season. Fans look at these games on a week to week or sometimes even day to day. That’s why some of us need therapy now. Meanwhile thibs is on a different clock than us. Season still early.

The FO is the blame which is becoming more and more glaring, especially after wins due to injuries. If we had a full team I don’t think we win most games. Injuries helps thibs rotation which mean if he had the right team for him he will succeed. Due to injuries, We got to see Grimes with consistent starter mins recently and how he impacts that starting unit. Deuce playing cause of Rose injury. Deuce showing he can impact a game without scoring. Not too many players can do that on this team besides our centers and this new version of cam. Sims showing thibs he can contribute thanks to Mitch injury. Mitch is my man. I remember telling u guys I hooped with him and got an up close look prior to him being drafted. So far he’s exactly what I expected after talking to him. Basketball is not his first or second love. This is why he’s always injured and why I doubt he will have that much growth as a player other than natural man strength from getting older. But his lack of mobility laterally hurts is against athletic teams. But sims is built for that type of play. I’m really liking how sims is playing. Still need Mitch for certain matchups but sims is fun to watch.

Thibs will be thibs and that works for him. As you can see if the FO give him a team to play thibs style, Then the rotations look better. But add in a healthy cam, Mitch and drose, it becomes a challenge for thibs to find the right rotation. Which is why we lose games we should win.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
HofstraBBall
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11/22/2022  10:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/22/2022  10:46 AM
blkexec wrote:
Chandler wrote:The celts often say it’s not who starts a game that matters. It’s who finishes. Knicks should employ this. If RJ or Julius or anyone else is having an off night then he doesn’t finish.


And I don’t agree that RJ thinks the only way to contribute is w scoring. I do agree he’s pressing too much and playing tight. He is a good player who has the potential to be very good but I’m not imagining a future where he’s dominant like Zion or electric like Ja. That doesn’t mean he’s second unit. But he does need to earn his minutes and thibs needs to adapt

There are a lot of guys right now not playing well.

Certain players do not have to earn mins, they already got it. JB, RJ & Randle.
But they could definitely lose mins. This is why players love thibs. He thinks from an 82 game season perspective, meaning no drastic changes with his big 3 so early in the season. Fans look at these games on a week to week or sometimes even day to day. That’s why some of us need therapy now. Meanwhile thibs is on a different clock than us. Season still early.

The FO is the blame which is becoming more and more glaring, especially after wins due to injuries. If we had a full team I don’t think we win most games. Injuries helps thibs rotation which mean if he had the right team for him he will succeed. Due to injuries, We got to see Grimes with consistent starter mins recently and how he impacts that starting unit. Deuce playing cause of Rose injury. Deuce showing he can impact a game without scoring. Not too many players can do that on this team besides our centers and this new version of cam. Sims showing thibs he can contribute thanks to Mitch injury. Mitch is my man. I remember telling u guys I hooped with him and got an up close look prior to him being drafted. So far he’s exactly what I expected after talking to him. Basketball is not his first or second love. This is why he’s always injured and why I doubt he will have that much growth as a player other than natural man strength from getting older. But his lack of mobility laterally hurts is against athletic teams. But sims is built for that type of play. I’m really liking how sims is playing. Still need Mitch for certain matchups but sims is fun to watch.

Thibs will be thibs and that works for him. As you can see if the FO give him a team to play thibs style, Then the rotations look better. But add in a healthy cam, Mitch and drose, it becomes a challenge for thibs to find the right rotation. Which is why we lose games we should win.

Thibs plays the guys that give him a better chance to win. Not guys fans think can be that.
Fans think they are in day to day to know better.
It did not take a Cam injury to play Grimes. Grimes was hurt.
It did not take a EF injury to play Cam. Thibs did that.
Rose is better than Deuce. Kid can't shoot and will be in China if he can't. Effect on game is hopeful fan over reach. And I guess a good coach benches his backup PG for no reason?
MR is better than Sims. Let's leave out the games Sims came in and fouled repeatedly.
Obi back to not shooting. Should Thibs bench him?
Should Thibs have benched IQ for EF due to performance prior to last night?

Funny how fans complain about how Thibs gives leeway to top players, who have earned it, but don't notice that he does with the youngins as well.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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Thibbs Needs to Sit RJ more and give Grimes 25-30 minutes a game
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