fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:How does one hold Randle and Obi accountable at the same time knowing they both play the same position and there is not much in the way of other suitable PFs on team (give or take)?

Just keep subbing one for the other until things work out? Bench both when things aren't right with either?

How does this work?

When Randle was at his worst last year he was still the Knicks most talented and proven guy but with a layer of obvious mental issues going on (the whole meditation thing at the beginning of games this year leads me to believe there is still something going on but really I have no clue). Starting him and then bench him for rest of game ala RJ against OKC? That could literally set off a firestorm of not good and sink Randle further. You do it with RJ and it's no sweat cause we know he can handle it.

Thibs is literally holding and treating everyone else differently. Why?

IMHO the Knicks want to move Randle but want to limit the picks you need to move him in a vacuum. How to you hold Randle accountable while also trying to pump up his value so that you can move him?

For me, the way to move Randle is to play him up to a point and hope Obi holds Randle accountable by his play. IMHO the Knicks DESPERATELY want Obi to negate Randle's time naturally but they need Obi to get better in all aspects of his game first; the Knicks WANT Obi to be the guy and National Champion player he was but he hasn't yet taken over games like they want him to. Obi is still an outlet player instead of a force/gravity player.

100% and add one thing... Thibs and Leon can be patient during this. Thibs/Randle are a season removed from a COY/MIP season. Its not that bad... its just not that GOOD. Randle who is "not a good fit and ahead of a dynamic young player" is just so much more valuable than a Randle who is "pissy because he's losing minutes to a rookie contract with a lot of holes in his game."

There's time (I know.. its SO much to watch)

Yes.

Randle did make second team all NBA. I still can't believe that and maybe it was a mirage, but **** it was also COVID real. (it could have been the whole crowds thing but why was this really only particular to Randle and not like a ton of other guys... so one off or not really a thing?)

Dude is still on the team and had that ceiling. Is it worth-while long term to see if the Knicks can coax him back to that level and try anything possible to do that? You don't coax a guy back to that level, ESPECIALLY with the gigantic and similarly fragile ego that Randle got going on, by benching him. Just don't work that way. I know Alan Hanh spoke to it this summer on FB stream. You just have to treat guys like that different, for better or worse.

IMHO TT was right, the Knicks should have waited a year to extend Randle.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Reddish https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/cam-reddish-shot-chart

Barrett https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/rj-barrett-shot-chart

Randle https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/julius-randle-shot-chart-this-season

Brunson https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jalen-brunson-shot-chart

I don't think anyone is being particularly efficient on offense. With the exception of some really bad looking shots, I think Reddish has been taking shots from the right places on the floor.

The one thing that really sticks out with Knicks players this season is the type of shots they are taking. Rim and 3pts, with the obvious exception of Brunson.

Interestingly, Brunson is shooting 56% from 2 and 29% from 3. That 3 point percentage is a career low. I am starting to think that the Knicks 3 point woes might be a systemic offense thing and not just a player oddity. I might take a look at team 3 point percentage versus passes per shot across the NBA. There is likely a correlation between the two and I figure our passes per shot are pretty low.

Also notable is that Brunson is getting to the line more than when he was in Dallas. Up from 2.7 to 4.6 ft attempts in roughly the same minutes.

I wouldn’t be surprised by this Thibs offense is heavy on FTA and relies on attacking the basket.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I think the coaching staff it starting to put Cam on particular players the way they did with RJ but I could be wrong on that, and then they hiding Brunson on the least punishing guard/SF.

So RJ/Cam or kinda interchangeable SF/SG

Thats a good point. Because Cam took Fournier's spot, one instinctively thinks he's the 2. But he's big enough to play a SF. Could also play the 4. Just out of curiosity, I wouldnt mind seing a small ball front court of Obi/Cam. When another team goes smallball. That would be one fast frontcourt.

rather see Obi play 3 and go big like Milw does.

I also would like to see Obi at the 3.

To me, Thibs has to get Obi's minutes up - he is too good of a shooter to not play.

Obi, Randle, Cam, RJ, Hart, Sims, IQ, Brunson. Kinda think that needs to be our core 8 for a stretch.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I think the coaching staff it starting to put Cam on particular players the way they did with RJ but I could be wrong on that, and then they hiding Brunson on the least punishing guard/SF.

So RJ/Cam or kinda interchangeable SF/SG

Thats a good point. Because Cam took Fournier's spot, one instinctively thinks he's the 2. But he's big enough to play a SF. Could also play the 4. Just out of curiosity, I wouldnt mind seing a small ball front court of Obi/Cam. When another team goes smallball. That would be one fast frontcourt.

rather see Obi play 3 and go big like Milw does.

I also would like to see Obi at the 3.

To me, Thibs has to get Obi's minutes up - he is too good of a shooter to not play.

Obi, Randle, Cam, RJ, Hart, Sims, IQ, Brunson. Kinda think that needs to be our core 8 for a stretch.

Did hell freeze over cause I don’t see DRose. I think Rose helps/unlocks IQ until the point at which IQ is fully capable of running point.

And then Grimes, gotta see him soon too.

martin wrote:I think the coaching staff it starting to put Cam on particular players the way they did with RJ but I could be wrong on that, and then they hiding Brunson on the least punishing guard/SF.

So RJ/Cam or kinda interchangeable SF/SG

this was my take too though i have even seen Cam on the pg

Chandler wrote:Cam needs to put on a little muscle so he can play through contact better and quit all that dippity do he does from time to time on his drives.

Yeah, I liked his aggression last night. I want to see him go hard to the rim. I know he can't always avoid the finesse finishes and I'm glad he has that in his arsenal. But you don't get fouls or punish the defense that way.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I think the coaching staff it starting to put Cam on particular players the way they did with RJ but I could be wrong on that, and then they hiding Brunson on the least punishing guard/SF.

So RJ/Cam or kinda interchangeable SF/SG

Thats a good point. Because Cam took Fournier's spot, one instinctively thinks he's the 2. But he's big enough to play a SF. Could also play the 4. Just out of curiosity, I wouldnt mind seing a small ball front court of Obi/Cam. When another team goes smallball. That would be one fast frontcourt.

rather see Obi play 3 and go big like Milw does.

I also would like to see Obi at the 3.

To me, Thibs has to get Obi's minutes up - he is too good of a shooter to not play.

Obi, Randle, Cam, RJ, Hart, Sims, IQ, Brunson. Kinda think that needs to be our core 8 for a stretch.

Did hell freeze over cause I don’t see DRose. I think Rose helps/unlocks IQ until the point at which IQ is fully capable of running point.

And then Grimes, gotta see him soon too.

I don't think you can go with 10 guys.

Everyone keeps talking about Grimes. Where is he? Is he hurt? He can wait until someone gets hurt.

D Rose might be finished, Kemba like. Right now, he is getting 10-15 minutes a night.

I'd rather put Brunson and IQ as the PG and get them into a rhythm. And then RJ and Cam are my primary SF & SG. Simms/Hart my C with Randle and Obi filling in the rest of those minutes. 8 guys.