TheGame wrote:FO has done a masterful job. It remains to be seen if it made a mistake on Mitchell, but we really will not know until we see what Grimes becomes. If Grimes turns into a consistent 18-20 point, high efficiency 3 pt and defensive specialist, then he makes more sense for this team than Mitchell, who is a terrible defender. Even if they missed on Mitchell, the FO still has done a better job than any FO we have had over the past 10 years.

It was gut the roster and trade multiple future picks for Mitchell. Mitchell and Brunson with no depth behind them. I wanted Mitchell but it depended on the price and it was too high after Rose made very reasonable offers

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Took a quick look at the 23' FA list. The only one that would really make a deal worth it is LaMelo Ball, and the Hornets have a club option. If there was a way of getting better by trading Randle, it probably would be for a player, not cap room. Right now I dont see a deal that makes us better, but the FO might. We'll see..

Terence Ross and Robin Lopez are UFAs next year, I believe. Wouldnt mind the FO making a run at them.

GustavBahler wrote:As I said, depends on who the FO brings in.

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

ToddTT wrote:I think they’re setting up a trade for Westbrook.

The thought crossed my mind as well. Lakers could use Randle. Dont believe Randle would mind going back to LA, playing with LeBron. Maybe it includes a pick swap.

The big question would be who the FO would target, with the cap room. Will more moves be made, to bring in not one but two stars?

Im liking what Im seeing from Randle. But this would be a deal that works for everyone, if the FO follows up with the right move(s).

Sorry... Im missing the part where someone explains how trading our best player is good thing for us?

I don’t know how Lamelo would work with Brunson already here. DM was different because he could probably adjust to becoming a full time shooting guard and probably would like that. Lamelo is strictly a pg

Yeah, but we know JB can play off ball from his years with Luka. I'm just not sure 'melo is a winning player.

True. Kidd transitioned to full time 3 and D SG last 4-5 years of his career

martin wrote:Not only the players and assets, the team seems to be on a march towards a much better modern team. Really liked this article

https://theathletic.com/3735994/2022/10/27/knicks-floaters-offensively/

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1585665196516941830

How the Knicks are using floaters to be effective offensively
Fred Katz

When Isaiah Hartenstein first arrived in Los Angeles last autumn, the LA Clippers had an adjustment for him. Hartenstein is an especially tall and considerably coordinated player, a rare 7-footer with touch. He relies on a feathery floater, but the team suggested he go to the rim more — until they got a better look at that quirky push shot.

The ball started to go in. And in again. And again. And again. The Clippers quickly realized if it ain’t broke …

“They just let me rock with it,” Hartenstein said.

Hartenstein learned the floater from his father, Florian, a former pro player who was mostly a screener and rebounder. Florian wanted his son to be more versatile than he was. Today, Isaiah says the floater is the easiest shot in basketball, even simpler than a layup, since staying 5 or 6 feet away from the hoop often means avoiding contact.

The numbers back up Hartenstein’s sentiment. He made an impressive 55 percent of his floaters last season, 11th-best among 116 qualifying NBA players, according to data tracked by Second Spectrum and supplied to The Athletic.

It’s no coincidence the Knicks wanted Hartenstein when he hit free agency this past summer. The front office appreciated his paint defense and passing, but there was a secondary perk to signing the 24-year-old, too: those floaters are darn effective. And oh boy, do the Knicks love those kinds of looks.

It seems like crafting some sort of teardrop is a prerequisite for entering Madison Square Garden these days. Immanuel Quickley is a self-taught float master, thanks to used wrappers and potato chip bags.

“I started shooting floaters at probably about five (years old) throwing the trash in the trash can,” he said. “Just throw it up. If it goes in, it goes in. If it doesn’t, you just go over to the floor and pick it up.”

The Knicks’ two biggest free-agency acquisitions from this past summer, Hartenstein and Jalen Brunson (who shot 52 percent last season on floaters, according to Second Spectrum), learned how to loft the shot without the help of trash. Brunson’s father, Rick, who’s now an assistant with the Knicks, was a pro player, too, and taught his son the move.

“Everything that I’ve learned is basically from him,” Jalen Brunson said.

Derrick Rose has a floater. RJ Barrett has been working on one since last season. Heck, even Julius Randle spent the summer honing a floater, which wasn’t previously in his arsenal. He tried two runners in the first quarter of a win over the Orlando Magic earlier this week.

The Knicks have cannonballed into floaters, and they’ve done it consciously.

Head coach Tom Thibodeau calls it “the modern midrange shot.” New York has made a concerted effort to change its shot profile over the past couple of seasons. The team wants to take more than 40 3-pointers a game and was proud of how often it got to the charity stripe a season ago when it finished second in free-throw rate.

The Knicks are going harder in that direction now. And part of the change is replacing unnecessary midrange jumpers with floaters, which have a slightly higher percentage than long 2s, a higher foul rate and a higher offensive rebound rate. A floater 5-8 feet from the basket forces a rim-protector to step up, leaving the hoop open.

In 2021-22, NBA teams snagged offensive rebounds nearly twice as often off missed floaters as they did off missed midrange jumpers. And the numbers stand out even more for the Knicks.

One of the reasons Thibodeau dubbed Mitchell Robinson the league’s best offensive rebounder earlier this season is specifically because of Robinson’s work on floaters. The organization is fully aware that Robinson is the world’s greatest at recovering those shots — and it’s not close.

Robinson offensive rebounded 28.5 percent of the Knicks’ missed floaters last season, by far the best rate in the NBA, according to Second Spectrum. Think about it like this: The league-average offensive rebound rate on floaters for a team was 31.1 percent last season, which means Robinson alone rebounded those misses nearly as well as an entire lineup does.

When a Knicks player takes a floater, there’s a realistic chance the possession isn’t ending on that shot.

“It holds true for everyone,” Thibodeau said. “I think it’s one of the reasons why we are a good offensive rebounding team; we do get into the paint.”

Those boards lead to easy second-chance points, too, considering many of them occur because Robinson’s defender is behind him contesting a shot. Once the ball touches his fingertips, there’s no one to stop a dunk.

Establishing so many floaters also opens up the baseline for lobs. For instance, if Quickley drives by his defender, forcing a frantic help defender to step up and contest one of his shots, a big man like Robinson could be down low patiently waiting for a dump-off or, even more rambunctious, a cutting Obi Toppin could fly in from the corner for a lob.

“I just want us to attack the rim, and make the right reads,” Thibodeau said.

For the most part, that’s what the Knicks have done. Four games into this season, the Knicks are taking 23 shots a game from floater range, the most in the NBA and nearly 10 more than they averaged in 2021-22. They’re taking fewer midrange jumpers because of it.

The Knicks finished 23rd in points per possession last season. In today’s way-too-early-to-analyze league leaders, they’re fifth, which should come with a shaker of salt, considering their light schedule thus far.

Still, the process has looked different than it did a season ago. Brunson has organized the offense like none of the point guards from yesteryear could. They’re playing faster. They’ve adjusted the shot profile, cutting out midrange jumpers and getting to the rim even more. Sometimes that means layups. But when they can’t get to the basket, they have another option, one that’s better than pulling up for an inefficient long 2-pointer.

“When you look at the numbers when the ball hits the paint before you shoot it, it forces the defense to collapse,” Thibodeau said. “The numbers are going to go up. … I think the modern midrange shot now is the floater in the lane.”

I can't read this enough. I didn't consider the other affects of a floater - I attacked it last season as giving up the probability of a foul, but without a Ja Morant type that can take the contact and still finish his shot attempt, it makes sense that there are other benefits to the floater - like a higher percentage of offensive rebound.