SergioNYK wrote:Brunson is a proven playoff performer (Randle is not) so he's our best player imo.

SergioNYK wrote:This team is at it's best when Randle is the 3rd best player on the team behind Brunson and RJ too..

I get the Randle hate. You cant be a Knick fan without having some interesting emotional traits (phucks sakes look at Nalod). Randle was wildly disappointing last year after the AS/MIP season. His attitude sucked. I have no excuse but the fact that it stayed internal tells me he had stuff going on (wife post partum? I have no clue, he's human).

Its fine... its ALL fine I get it... stuff like this is a daily theme on Reddit also

Knixkik wrote:Randle is our most talented but I feel like replacing him with Toppin wouldn’t leave much regression

Its just utter madness. Randle is an established 2 way guy who's a work horse on both sides of the ball, super physical and has 4 years of 20/10/4 and an AS game. I LOVE Obi. Just go back to when he was drafted and I was streaking down the quad. But he's not anywhere near the NBA player Randle is and if you think subbing in Obi is close to a push I want what your smoking (no seriously I'll take it anyway)

fishmike wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Brunson is a proven playoff performer (Randle is not) so he's our best player imo.

Brunson's first playoffs he was a bench player for 8ppg in 7 games and was terrible. He was NOT good. Randle gets more than 5 games before being labeled anything in the playoffs. Brunson surely benefitted

SergioNYK wrote:This team is at it's best when Randle is the 3rd best player on the team behind Brunson and RJ too..

I get the Randle hate. You cant be a Knick fan without having some interesting emotional traits (phucks sakes look at Nalod). Randle was wildly disappointing last year after the AS/MIP season. His attitude sucked. I have no excuse but the fact that it stayed internal tells me he had stuff going on (wife post partum? I have no clue, he's human).

Its fine... its ALL fine I get it... stuff like this is a daily theme on Reddit also

Knixkik wrote:Randle is our most talented but I feel like replacing him with Toppin wouldn’t leave much regression

Its just utter madness. Randle is an established 2 way guy who's a work horse on both sides of the ball, super physical and has 4 years of 20/10/4 and an AS game. I LOVE Obi. Just go back to when he was drafted and I was streaking down the quad. But he's not anywhere near the NBA player Randle is and if you think subbing in Obi is close to a push I want what your smoking (no seriously I'll take it anyway)

For phuchs sake, what are my traits?

1. Factorial accuracy fetish
2. Not a phucking idiot
3. Humility
4. Sarcasm
5. Lack of brevity

Nalod wrote:

fishmike wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Brunson is a proven playoff performer (Randle is not) so he's our best player imo.

Brunson's first playoffs he was a bench player for 8ppg in 7 games and was terrible. He was NOT good. Randle gets more than 5 games before being labeled anything in the playoffs. Brunson surely benefitted

SergioNYK wrote:This team is at it's best when Randle is the 3rd best player on the team behind Brunson and RJ too..

I am not sure what that means? Randle is an established 20/10 2-way guy who at worst is productive (last year) and at best an all star (two years ago). He certainly looks focused on being a high assist guy taking the right shots. He's also beating up guys nicely in the post. I have always thought Randle/Mitch were a spacing problem but they have looked great early and Randle's even gotten Mitch some nice post ups!

I get the Randle hate. You cant be a Knick fan without having some interesting emotional traits (phucks sakes look at Nalod). Randle was wildly disappointing last year after the AS/MIP season. His attitude sucked. I have no excuse but the fact that it stayed internal tells me he had stuff going on (wife post partum? I have no clue, he's human).

Its fine... its ALL fine I get it... stuff like this is a daily theme on Reddit also

Knixkik wrote:Randle is our most talented but I feel like replacing him with Toppin wouldn’t leave much regression

Its just utter madness. Randle is an established 2 way guy who's a work horse on both sides of the ball, super physical and has 4 years of 20/10/4 and an AS game. I LOVE Obi. Just go back to when he was drafted and I was streaking down the quad. But he's not anywhere near the NBA player Randle is and if you think subbing in Obi is close to a push I want what your smoking (no seriously I'll take it anyway)

For phuchs sake, what are my traits?

1. Factorial accuracy fetish
2. Not a phucking idiot
3. Humility
4. Sarcasm
5. Lack of brevity

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:not our BEST player... sorry to say that is still Randle.

However, there isnt much talent separation between our main 4 guys (contract wise) are the core of our team and that's Mitch/Randle/RJ/Brunson. That is also not a bad thing, in fact I think it ends up being the strength of the team. They are all signed long term and you can already see them playing for each other. We have already seen Mitch get more post ups in 2 games than the prior 3 years. Brunson and Randle are already making sick passers to cutters in the half court. There is a much different attitude this year and its very positive.

Back to Brunson... not our best player but easily one of the highest IQ players in the league. What that means is he's really going to elevate guys around him because he's always making the right play. Randle/RJ are the best all around players on the roster, but their scoring is not EFF% enough and either that improves OR you get help. Hopefully we get both, as Brunson and IHart are massive offensive upgrades from last year and we already see them taking pressure of RJ/Randle to get a volume of shots off.

Brunson is also a perfect fit for Thibs. Those core 4 guys and Thibs all look like great fits. Honestly that group should win a lot of regular season games because we are good and deep and will defend every night. Still need a star wing, but I think we have the making of a good and deep team in the 45-50 win range with plenty of upside from young players and chemistry. Extra future draft assets are great also.

Randle is our most talented but I feel like replacing him with Toppin wouldn’t leave much regression. Replacing Brunson with any other stopgap PG would leave a huge hole on this team as we have seen last year. I do agree about needing to find an elite wing at some point.

Is RJ not ascending to a top 10 wing in the league? not saying he there yet. Not week one.

I’m saying whatever Barrett becomes, we need an elite wing in addition to him.

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:not our BEST player... sorry to say that is still Randle.

However, there isnt much talent separation between our main 4 guys (contract wise) are the core of our team and that's Mitch/Randle/RJ/Brunson. That is also not a bad thing, in fact I think it ends up being the strength of the team. They are all signed long term and you can already see them playing for each other. We have already seen Mitch get more post ups in 2 games than the prior 3 years. Brunson and Randle are already making sick passers to cutters in the half court. There is a much different attitude this year and its very positive.

Back to Brunson... not our best player but easily one of the highest IQ players in the league. What that means is he's really going to elevate guys around him because he's always making the right play. Randle/RJ are the best all around players on the roster, but their scoring is not EFF% enough and either that improves OR you get help. Hopefully we get both, as Brunson and IHart are massive offensive upgrades from last year and we already see them taking pressure of RJ/Randle to get a volume of shots off.

Brunson is also a perfect fit for Thibs. Those core 4 guys and Thibs all look like great fits. Honestly that group should win a lot of regular season games because we are good and deep and will defend every night. Still need a star wing, but I think we have the making of a good and deep team in the 45-50 win range with plenty of upside from young players and chemistry. Extra future draft assets are great also.

Randle is our most talented but I feel like replacing him with Toppin wouldn’t leave much regression. Replacing Brunson with any other stopgap PG would leave a huge hole on this team as we have seen last year. I do agree about needing to find an elite wing at some point.

Is RJ not ascending to a top 10 wing in the league? not saying he there yet. Not week one.

I’m saying whatever Barrett becomes, we need an elite wing in addition to him.

I think one of the nice things about this roster is that should be plug and play...

SGA is the guy... still hoping to us make a play. Maybe OKC gets Westbrook and those coveted Laker's picks, we send Rose/Fournier/IQ to the Lakers (which actually helps them), Obi/Grimes and some picks to OKC and get SGA back and basically look like this:
Brunson/SGA/RJ/Randle/Mitch with McBride/Cam/IHart rounding out the bench. We'll need another "guy" but that looks fun

I like SGA but I’m really concerned about the lack of outside shooting if Fournier is replaced in the lineup with a guy who isn’t an elite shooter. I’ve always felt Myles Turner can replace Mitch and offer the defense plus enough shooting to open up the paint but still need an elite shooter in the lineup on the perimeter.

I would say Randle is still overall our best player, though. His tangibles - 20/10 player, high assists, can score from anywhere, provides muscle intimidation on D (if not an occasional excellent play) are hard to ignore.

BUT... in the current positionless NBA - there's an expectation that to be the best player on the team, you also have to be a floor general/playmaker. Randle is quite versatile and does indeed have PG skills - he can handle the rock, create, hit the outside shot, and pass for assists, very much above average for a natural PF.

If he plays like a PG (like the ideal superstar), it comes to the detriment of his big man skills (it means he's out of position to rebound, it means he's scoring from the perimeter and less near the basket getting more TOs). The more he uses his PG skills, the more we point out that they're not great. (they're not expected to be, they're supposed to be a bonus!).

One way to think of things is that these last few years with Randle have been an exercise in player development with him. His PG and perimeter skills are on a dramatically higher level than when he first joined the team. He's dealt with adversity. Now with a healthy young natural PG (Burks is a good player, but he's still more of a wing with PG-like skills), Randle is in his most ideal situation with the Knicks yet. He can focus on being a big, but flash the PG skills periodically to keep the defense off balance.

And that sets him up to be the best Randle the Knicks have seen this season.

technomaster wrote:I'd say Brunson is an excellent PG/floor general. He might well be our most impactful guy from that respect.

I would say Randle is still overall our best player, though. His tangibles - 20/10 player, high assists, can score from anywhere, provides muscle intimidation on D (if not an occasional excellent play) are hard to ignore.

BUT... in the current positionless NBA - there's an expectation that to be the best player on the team, you also have to be a floor general/playmaker. Randle is quite versatile and does indeed have PG skills - he can handle the rock, create, hit the outside shot, and pass for assists, very much above average for a natural PF.

If he plays like a PG (like the ideal superstar), it comes to the detriment of his big man skills (it means he's out of position to rebound, it means he's scoring from the perimeter and less near the basket getting more TOs). The more he uses his PG skills, the more we point out that they're not great. (they're not expected to be, they're supposed to be a bonus!).

One way to think of things is that these last few years with Randle have been an exercise in player development with him. His PG and perimeter skills are on a dramatically higher level than when he first joined the team. He's dealt with adversity. Now with a healthy young natural PG (Burks is a good player, but he's still more of a wing with PG-like skills), Randle is in his most ideal situation with the Knicks yet. He can focus on being a big, but flash the PG skills periodically to keep the defense off balance.

And that sets him up to be the best Randle the Knicks have seen this season.

I feel like the bolded is one reason Obi doesn't get as many minutes as he does. It's not his game but to get to that next level - a sure fire starter - he has got to be more physically mature.

Well, I'm one of the guys that was for this trade. And that was trading the old Randle. This new Randle is a breath of fresh air. Would I still be in favor of trading Randle now, why not? Is Obi better than Randle, no and probably never will be, but thats not my reason to trade Randle and move Obi into starting lineup. I believe Obi's style of play would benefit the team's transition points. And moving Randle will not only open minutes for Obi, but also for other players. We are a deep team. So moving off of EF or Randle is addition by subtraction.

With or without the Randle trade, I don't think we make a lot of noise in the playoffs (assuming we make it).

But I'm also ok if we don't do anything. Keep Obi off the bench with IQ since they are great to watch together. But JB would have a lot of fun throwing lobs to Obi and Mitch. RJ also has some chemistry with Obi. So yep I'm all for a Randle trade or no trade at this point.

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1. Jalen Brunson
2a. Kevin McHale
2b. Hakeem Olajuwon
2c. Jackie Butler

I like having a decent PG (Brunson), how will he put up with Randle & Barrett's inconsistency on both sides of the court, and Leon Rose giving both 40 minutes to fore fill their stats ???