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Suns, Sarver, and Sterling-Silver….
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gradyandrew
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9/17/2022  12:13 AM
https://arizonasports.com/story/3296731/key-points-full-robert-sarver-investigation-report/

Finally some real reporting where the findings of the investigation are summarized clearly and in full. It seems like the punishment meted by Silver was spot on. I hope he defends himself after letting people run wild.

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gradyandrew
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9/17/2022  12:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2022  12:40 AM
The Charlotte Hornets didn't pull Miles Bridges' qualifying offer prior to the July 13 deadline, according to NBA insider Marc Stein.

As a result, Bridges remains a restricted free agent and will earn $7.9 million for the 2022-23 NBA season if he signs the one-year tender.

The 24-year-old was arrested June 29 in Los Angeles and charged with felony domestic violence.

I'd say whoever owns the Hornets is on far shakier ground here.

smackeddog
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9/17/2022  2:55 AM
gradyandrew wrote:
The investigation also found Sarver to have made misogynistic and sexually inappropriate comments in the workplace. One example was when he wanted to unassign a pregnant employee from an event because it would take place shortly after she had given birth. His reasoning was that she would be “breastfeeding” and “babies need their mom, not their father.” Sarver eventually put her back on the event.

https://deadspin.com/nba-report-proves-that-robert-sarver-is-a-bad-guy-1849532227

So wanting to give a new mom extra time off is misogynistic?

It's blatantly sexist

A) Why is he assuming she's going to be breastfeeding? WTF business is it of his? Why is this the first thing that pops into his mind, it's creepy/ sleazy

B) whether she needs to be at home or not is her decision to make, not his

C) babies need a parent, it doesn't matter if they're a mom or a dad- the assumption that it needs to be the mom is something crap or lazy dads or men say to get out of actually parenting.

D) it's the year 2022, the fact people still say/ believe/ dont understand how this is sexist and illegal by an employer is depressing

gradyandrew
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9/17/2022  5:39 AM
smackeddog wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:
The investigation also found Sarver to have made misogynistic and sexually inappropriate comments in the workplace. One example was when he wanted to unassign a pregnant employee from an event because it would take place shortly after she had given birth. His reasoning was that she would be “breastfeeding” and “babies need their mom, not their father.” Sarver eventually put her back on the event.

https://deadspin.com/nba-report-proves-that-robert-sarver-is-a-bad-guy-1849532227

So wanting to give a new mom extra time off is misogynistic?

It's blatantly sexist

A) Why is he assuming she's going to be breastfeeding? WTF business is it of his? Why is this the first thing that pops into his mind, it's creepy/ sleazy

B) whether she needs to be at home or not is her decision to make, not his

C) babies need a parent, it doesn't matter if they're a mom or a dad- the assumption that it needs to be the mom is something crap or lazy dads or men say to get out of actually parenting.

D) it's the year 2022, the fact people still say/ believe/ dont understand how this is sexist and illegal by an employer is depressing

First off there's a difference between misogyny(dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women) and sexism(prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women) which is important and relevant. I don't think in this example he's being hateful, so sensitivity training seems like the appropriate remedy (as prescribed).

A) It's possible she already stated she wanted to breastfeed.
B) Apparently, that's the case. He said she didn't need to take part. She said she would, and she did.
C) Most employers give new mom's more time off than new dad's, so it's not like that statement is without legal precedent
D) Sexist? yes. Illegal? not sure. At least to my main point, however illegal it might be, it certainly pales in comparison to hospitalizing your partner. For media, fans, and players to get up in arms about one and not the other is disgusting.

Nalod
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9/17/2022  4:08 PM
gradyandrew wrote:
The Charlotte Hornets didn't pull Miles Bridges' qualifying offer prior to the July 13 deadline, according to NBA insider Marc Stein.

As a result, Bridges remains a restricted free agent and will earn $7.9 million for the 2022-23 NBA season if he signs the one-year tender.

The 24-year-old was arrested June 29 in Los Angeles and charged with felony domestic violence.

I'd say whoever owns the Hornets is on far shakier ground here.

Is there a morals clause?
Also he can sign it, and league can suspend him?
Players need not be convicted but indicted suspended until trail?
If anyone knows please chime in.

gradyandrew
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9/18/2022  12:22 PM
"We have not had those discussions as of yet," Tremaglio said. "We are all gearing up for a season. ... But I think it is very clear that our players are incredibly upset about what has occurred. Their hearts go out to the families and all of the individuals who have actually had to endure this for such a long period of time. But at the same time they recognize that they have a job to do and they are really excited about moving forward with the season."

Added Tremaglio: "Quite frankly, I know that we never want our players to be in a position where they are unsafe or individuals that they are around are unsafe. Mr. Sarver had the ability to set the tone at the top. And for us to have individuals that are in a leadership role impacting the game in that way is detrimental to the success of our players and the safety of our players and that will not be tolerated."

Rondo allegedly smashed a bunch of items around the house ... and, according to court documents, told Bachelor "You're dead" before leaving the residence.

Bachelor claimed Rondo eventually came back with a gun, scaring her and their kids.

Bachelor was eventually granted protection for herself and her two children, and Rondo had to temporarily stay at least 500 feet away from Ashley and their kids

My guess is the NBPA is hoping the Miles Bridges charges get 'resolved' in the same way, by an out of court settlement. That way everyone can pretend nothing happened.

gradyandrew
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9/19/2022  9:49 PM
Just for comparison, PayPal has 7.5% African American employees while the Suns have 15%. Image> substance.
smackeddog
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9/20/2022  2:11 AM
gradyandrew wrote:Just for comparison, PayPal has 7.5% African American employees while the Suns have 15%. Image> substance.

And the relevance is? Not really sure why you seem so passionate about defending Sarver (you seem to be on some sort of a mission) or that you think he got unfairly punished, unless you work in a strange/ toxic workplace where all the stuff he did is considered the norm or is okay? In which case, yikes!

I genuinely don't get how you don't understand the basic requirements of professional behaviour and anti discriminatory practice at work.

wargames
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9/20/2022  6:57 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/20/2022  6:58 AM
gradyandrew wrote:Just for comparison, PayPal has 7.5% African American employees while the Suns have 15%. Image> substance.

Did the CEO basically make an ass of himself to his employees multiple times? Sarver did… After they specifically warned him not to.

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Nalod
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9/20/2022  7:32 AM
smackeddog wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:Just for comparison, PayPal has 7.5% African American employees while the Suns have 15%. Image> substance.

And the relevance is? Not really sure why you seem so passionate about defending Sarver (you seem to be on some sort of a mission) or that you think he got unfairly punished, unless you work in a strange/ toxic workplace where all the stuff he did is considered the norm or is okay? In which case, yikes!

I genuinely don't get how you don't understand the basic requirements of professional behaviour and anti discriminatory practice at work.

Get were Grady is coming from and could be said I too “defending” him. Not really, its a very gray area and the issues of being a ****ing ******* which Sarver is and has been over 18 years vs. forcing him or anyowner to sell the team. Remember, the NBA is not “law”. They found him guilty of things that Sarver could have resolved civilly. Dolan let Isiah stay on and in a way created a permissible environment that cost him 11 million with Anucha Brown Sanders. That is not cause to force him to sell. He had to change the culture. So did Mark Cuban. Im sure there are others. And yes, owners can’t fire themselves.
Dolan has a good record of diversity in his executive rants at MSG. Both minority and women.
Sarvers made woman cry and created hostile workspace. Likey made it hard for them to sue. Thats unfair and not cool. And hard for women to retaliate and sue.
His Dropping of the N-word repeating others who said it is not cool but not nearly the egregious area Sterling went to. Sarver is an *******. Its it all for the world to see.
Public money goes to the cost of the arena. The city leaders and Taxpaysers might have a say.

Does Paypal actually discriminate? If 20% of the population is black, do they need to also have that as its employee base? What to other tech companies hold as their work force break down? Same for Latin American employees? Asian?

gradyandrew
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9/20/2022  9:38 AM
smackeddog wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:Just for comparison, PayPal has 7.5% African American employees while the Suns have 15%. Image> substance.

And the relevance is? Not really sure why you seem so passionate about defending Sarver (you seem to be on some sort of a mission) or that you think he got unfairly punished, unless you work in a strange/ toxic workplace where all the stuff he did is considered the norm or is okay? In which case, yikes!

I genuinely don't get how you don't understand the basic requirements of professional behaviour and anti discriminatory practice at work.

smackeddog, sorry you misunderstand me. My point is no one is perfect. A 10 million fine and a ban for one year are already strong penalties. I'm sure some of the fine will cover the cost of the investigation, but a large portion of it is punitive damages which will hopefully be put to good use. As you point out there are issues of professionalism and anti discrimination as well. The counseling is needed.

However, I think he's also done some good as highlighted. I think you have to balance that he has a pretty good hiring record of diversity and also other charitable endeavors. What gets me is this:

Regarding the accusations of misogyny, they pale in comparison to what Rondo and Bridges DID this summer in a way that's not even really comparable. You can't compare a comment about someone breast feeding or getting a breast job with holding a gun to your ex wife or hospitalizing your partner. Yet in both those cases the NBA community stayed silent. The long term effects of those cases will also not be investigated, it make sense for everyone involved to have some kind of a monetary arrangement so Rondo and Bridges can keep making money. In brief, the NBA cares less about intimate partner violence than they do about unprofessional workplace behavior. I have a problem with that.

Philc1
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9/20/2022  1:21 PM
gradyandrew wrote:Just for comparison, PayPal has 7.5% African American employees while the Suns have 15%. Image> substance.

So one can simply pay their way out of being called a racist?

gradyandrew
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9/20/2022  4:01 PM
Philc1 wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:Just for comparison, PayPal has 7.5% African American employees while the Suns have 15%. Image> substance.

So one can simply pay their way out of being called a racist?

Good point Phil. First, is he? Does saying the n word in the first four contexts qualify someone as a racist? "Sarver did acknowledge using the word once many years ago. "On one occasion a player used the N-word to describe the importance of having each others' back," Sarver said through his attorneys. "I responded by saying, 'I wouldn't say n---a, I would say that we're in the foxhole together" In light of the management structure of Phoenix? Like I said, only the fifth instance seems inexcusable, but it also is the least documented. It's just one person saying he said it. And are there degrees? Can someone be more or less racist? I guess my feeling is,.is him saying the n word in those contexts worse than pulling a gun on his ex wife and kids or strangling his wife? Two instances where the NBA decided to not say anything?

gradyandrew
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9/20/2022  4:12 PM
I'll even say this- Sarver, Rondo, and Miles Bridges all acted under the same rationale- "I pay this person a lot of money to put up with my ****." Are those levels of "****" comparable?
wargames
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9/20/2022  9:43 PM
gradyandrew wrote:I'll even say this- Sarver, Rondo, and Miles Bridges all acted under the same rationale- "I pay this person a lot of money to put up with my ****." Are those levels of "****" comparable?

Rondo is still a FA, Bridges is probably going to jail. Your example emphasizes that these are people whose actions should lead to financial consequences.

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gradyandrew
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9/20/2022  10:58 PM
wargames wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:I'll even say this- Sarver, Rondo, and Miles Bridges all acted under the same rationale- "I pay this person a lot of money to put up with my ****." Are those levels of "****" comparable?

Rondo is still a FA, Bridges is probably going to jail. Your example emphasizes that these are people whose actions should lead to financial consequences.

I would say that is exactly what I am NOT talking about. If financial consequences we're the issue,the NBA community would have let the Sarver matter drop. As you can see by the NBPA director's comments, no one is suggesting that the financial penalty Sarver is paying is not enough. The issue is that the players and those around them are unsafe.

My feeling is that however "unsafe" they may feel around Sarver, I don't think anyone worries about him pulling a gun on them or beating them. Objectively those actions are much more "unsafe". When a woman is killed, the first suspect is always their partner because they are usually the ones who kill them. I don't think anyone in the Suns office ever feared for their life.

BigDaddyG
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9/20/2022  11:39 PM
gradyandrew wrote:
wargames wrote:
gradyandrew wrote:I'll even say this- Sarver, Rondo, and Miles Bridges all acted under the same rationale- "I pay this person a lot of money to put up with my ****." Are those levels of "****" comparable?

Rondo is still a FA, Bridges is probably going to jail. Your example emphasizes that these are people whose actions should lead to financial consequences.

I would say that is exactly what I am NOT talking about. If financial consequences we're the issue,the NBA community would have let the Sarver matter drop. As you can see by the NBPA director's comments, no one is suggesting that the financial penalty Sarver is paying is not enough. The issue is that the players and those around them are unsafe.

My feeling is that however "unsafe" they may feel around Sarver, I don't think anyone worries about him pulling a gun on them or beating them. Objectively those actions are much more "unsafe". When a woman is killed, the first suspect is always their partner because they are usually the ones who kill them. I don't think anyone in the Suns office ever feared for their life.


The difference here is the league itself conducted the investigation on Sarved and presented it's findings. The league is in a gray area with Rondo and Bridges. Yes, Rajon and Bridges appear to be irredeemable scum bags. But due process is still a thing and, as far as I know, Rond hasn't been charged. Bottom line, no one really knows what happened that night. Also, how can you expect the NBA to make a ruling on Bridges when he's yet to have been found guilty in a court of law. How would the NBA even begin to hand down an appropriate penalty to Bridges? Bottom line, these situations aren't as similar as you make them out to be. As for Sarver, he was warned about his actions and he didn't heed them. Now he has to face the consequences. Am I hellbent on seeing forced to sell? Not really. I've heard Sarver stories well before the article came out. But I don't know him as a person and I can't say how much of impact his actions had on the people who worked under him. There are people who are much closer to the situation who feel differently. I would say their understanding of the situation trump's anything we have to say on the matter.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
gradyandrew
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9/21/2022  1:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/21/2022  1:41 AM
Rondo hasn't been charged and he won't. His ex wife has already dropped the charges.
Miles Bridges partner has already taken down the pictures and statements she posted to IG. Let's be honest here, in both cases the women were convinced after getting legal counsel that the financial benefits due to them would likely increase if the respective players can continue to play in the NBA. For Rondo's case if she doesn't take the stand there isn't a case. For Bridges case, we wait and see. It will undoubtedly be much more difficult to get a conviction without a witness. Maybe she fell down the stairs right? We don't need a primer on how domestic violence works and why isn't so difficult to get a conviction.

The NBA decided to investigate Sarver based on Earl Watson's allegations in an ESPN article. For Rondo and Bridges ex and partner, they weren't lucky enough to get a 1000 word essay in a major NBA publication or have anyone in the NBA community tweet a statement of support.

The issue of Sarver having an extra legal investigation of his private statements and Rondo and Bridges not having an extra legal investigation of theirs is the exact point. #somelivesmatter

In terms of an appropriate penalty, how about just offering support for the victims?

Cavs/ Hornets tweet:
In view of the recent allegations against Rajon Rondo/ Miles Bridges, the Cavaliers/ Hornets will not consider resigning Rajon Rondo/ Miles Bridges until we can be sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are untrue. Domestic violence is unacceptable in any circumstance. We encourage all victims of domestic violence to get help today.

BigDaddyG
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9/21/2022  7:18 AM
The wife usually can't drop charges once police are called into do an investigation. Rondo's wife didn't drop any charges, they just reached a settlement on visitation. As far as we know, Miles Bridges is still facing charges and is awaiting a court appearance. The fact remains that both situations remain in flux and it would be irresponsible for the league to had down any penalties without having all the facts. The NBA took nearly a season to investigate Sarver and came to a conclusion. Those situations are different enough that I wouldn't even bother comparing them. The Dan Snyder/Washington Commanders situation is more comparable to be honest.
As far as the teams making any comments, I'm sure their attorneys advised them not to make anything more than a generic statement.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
gradyandrew
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9/21/2022  10:18 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/21/2022  10:22 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:The wife usually can't drop charges once police are called into do an investigation. Rondo's wife didn't drop any charges, they just reached a settlement on visitation. As far as we know, Miles Bridges is still facing charges and is awaiting a court appearance. The fact remains that both situations remain in flux and it would be irresponsible for the league to had down any penalties without having all the facts. The NBA took nearly a season to investigate Sarver and came to a conclusion. Those situations are different enough that I wouldn't even bother comparing them. The Dan Snyder/Washington Commanders situation is more comparable to be honest.
As far as the teams making any comments, I'm sure their attorneys advised them not to make anything more than a generic statement.

Do you think Miles Bridges beating his partner is worse than Sarver suggesting a new mother take the day off because babies need their mom and she could be breast feeding?

I'm not trying to be trite or troll. I just want to make sure that we agree on this, cutting all the legal bull**** aside as morally responsible human beings.

Suns, Sarver, and Sterling-Silver….

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