blkexec wrote:martin wrote:You are constantly stating things that you THINK are happening not what is actually happening. There is this mental hump that many seem to have with Thibs. You don't even have to like him or his style but stating obvious things are are literally incorrect... I don't know what that is. Let me show you how:
blkexec wrote:But my point still stands. When you have a deep team and a coach that appears to play or (want to play) a shorter rotation (8-9 guys), and simply doesn't adjust OR takes too long to adjust, thats not a good match for this roster thats 11 deep (if you include Cam). Yes Thibs ran a 9-10 man rotation last year, but that was forced (in my opinion). That did not appear to be the norm (student of Van Gundy and Riley so I'm not surprised).
For the last 2 years, give or take, Thibs has played just about 10 guys with 2 full rotations. In his stints with Chicago and Minny, he played 9-10 guys consistently. Literally, WTF do you mean by "a coach that appears to play or want to play"? That's just you projecting something that does not meet reality.
Thibs literally appears to want to play 10 guys, not the opposite.
Ok so first I applaud your post clean up responses. Spot on for that and why this is a great site that you run very well. But I believe I said “in my opinion” and I believe I responded to fish saying yes thigs “starts 5 and brings 5” off the bench. I watch almost every single game and Thibs is extremely robotic and consistent and predictable with his rotation (like it or not) min distributions and keeping the starting 5 and bench 5 together for the most part (develops team chemistry). Yes I agree again just to be clear on those facts.
In my opinion I still feel like he prefers a tighter rotation and in my experience a tighter rotation is better at all levels of basketball. I’ve coached and played enough to understand that. Again I’m not saying it’s good or bad on thibs approach I’m saying it’s a mis- match with the FO and Thibs. to have thibs as a coach for this deep young team. Cam and Obi are clear examples of that mis alignment between FO and Thibs.
“We need to develop the yoots” is an old discussion that’s dead in my opinion and we already discussed last year several times already. Some believe bringing in the yoots along side the vets (which is what thibs has done) is development. I never knocked anybodys opinion on that. To me that’s one type of hybrid development. There are other ways to develop youths (even if you and others disagree). But I think we finally need an all in development approach without blockers like Randle or Rose or Fournier. Those three for example are blocking mins for players like Obi, Cam, IQ and Deuce.
This is a knick forum for fans to voice their opinions. And in my opinion, instead of those vets getting mins, I rather those mins go to the 3 or 4 yoots I mentioned above. Period. Enough with this hybrid development stuff. We didn’t hire thibs to develop youths, we hired thibs to win now. If RJ and company are being developed at the same time great. That’s a hybrid development strategy that comes with win now coaches who believes certain young players should get vet type mins. But stop kidding yourself. Grimes might be in the gleague next to deuce if it wasn’t for Covid so stop that. Thibs said it himself he wants to win now during his first press conference. That’s why we added vets so we can win. That’s great but that one year or 4th seed wasn’t a good representation of this team. Plus the FO moved some parts around trying to improve a formula that actually made us worse with Kemba and EF in the backcourt. Another sign of FO weakest but that for another discussion thread. Overall the FO doing better than I expected but I still have my doubts on certain things.
I’m saying moving forward, since we did not get DM in the trade, this year is the perfect time to start a full development mode and play these guys 30 plus mins. Play Obi and cam. Remove the blockers. We not going anywhere and knick fans are finally with the patient route. About time. Take advantage of that this year. Then maybe an Obi and IQ or Deuce trade or cam trade they are more valuable because other teams see them playing real mins. Look at the cavs. They play their new guys and was able to flip them. Can’t increase value if they are blocked by vets.
Agree, everyone is allowed to voice their opinion. And this is what a forum is for.
Also think that opinions are heavily influenced by ones past experiences and subject knowledge.
A Girls HS Mom, whos daughter is the 10th best player on a team, is upset that her daughter does not start. The mom, who has never played or watched the sport, feels the daughter should start because the last time she played she was able to score a layup. Her knowledge and experience does not allow her to understand that even though her daughter scored a lay up, it does not mean she is as good as the others. She is not able to notice that her daughter misses coverages on defense, does not execute the offensive plays and panics every time the other team presses. Thibs is an experienced coach and former COY. He recognizes who has the intangibles that fit best for what he is looking for. For example, in the case of Obi, maybe it's his inability to keep his defender on the perimeter. Offenses are able to play off him when he is on the perimeter (Reason why he gets so many chances to back cut for an alley-oop when defenders lose site of him). In a league where shooting is so important, Obi has yet to show he can and will need to improve before he is given major minutes. In the case of Deuce, who I know you like, any coach worth a dime is not going to elevate his bottom guy over other guys that have earned time before him. Deuce has also had a couple of chances and did not take full advantage. Grimes on the other hand did. In the NBA or any other professional sport, when given the chance, you must take full advantage and really shine in order to knock someone off their post. Hopefully he will be ready the next time he gets a shot.
In terms of the FO getting on the right page, as you call it. Think Thibs and the FO are on the same page. Thibs job is to win, develop ALL his players, get his best players performing at their highest level and to build a reputation that is respected by others and attracts top players. The FO's job is to win, provide the coach with good players, and build a reputation that is respected by others and attracts top players. Benching/Trading a recent All Star player who "struggled" for a player in his second year that cannot shoot but is a fan favorite is not a way to build a reputation that is respected. Instead, it is a message to the league/team that you are an organization/coach that will trade/bench a player who became an All Star, took less on his extension, just because he put up 20.1ppg vs 24.1ppg / 9.9rpg vs 10.2rpg / 5.1 asst vs 6.0? or did not repeat an incredible 41% from 3pt!
Agree you should have your opinion, but maybe you can consider some of these realities.
'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
9/9/2022 12:40 PM