SergioNYK wrote:Melo and Randle situation is totally different. I compare Randle more towards to Marbury.

As negative as I’ve been on Randle recently I think that’s unfair. Marbury was beyond a losing player. He was the prototype for Dennis Smith Jr. a shoot first pg who couldn’t shoot, play defense and was a locker room virus. With a guy like marbury you would be lucky to crack 25 wins in a season

I think the reports of Randle being a locker room cancer are overblown. Yes he’s an alpha but that hasn’t caused the losing it’s his ISO style of play on the court. A team can win with Randle as we showed just a year ago but the ceiling is 40-45 wins and 1st round exit in the playoffs

Randle isnt going anywhere this offseason. While fans may want him gone and I get it now's not the time. You are gonna get at least another start to the year with Obi fighting for minutes off the bench. Hopefully Randle plays more like he did in his MIP season. Anything in the middle would really boost this squad. I expect other guys to improve as well, or pick up where they left off

SupremeCommander wrote:well, I love Melo and thought he was one of our very best players

I thought Randle's season two seasons ago was one of the very best seasons in franchise history

I'd say right now I am 49 percent in favor of keeping him, and 51 percent in favor of trading him. Melo was not mentally fragile. He didn't feel compelled to tell me or his dissenters to stfu. I guess I question if Randle is man enough for NYC

Marbury was on track for HOF credentials. Then the sulking and took the entitlements he received too far. I his heart he meant well off the court.

As for “Randle not man enough”…..>its an interesting take. In the “be careful what you wish for” catagory he did in fact reach all star and All NBA status and signed what was labeled a very team friendly deal. He play no doubt fell off a notch and while his stats were respectable, his attitude needs adjusting.

None of us know **** as to why he got salty. But at the end of the day lets see how he responds.

fishmike wrote:ITs a game where you need buckets to win. Melo was easily the better player. He pretty much played on one good team and they went to the conference finals. That was the Billups/JRSmith/Melo/Kmart/Nene team. Thats a good squad (they lost to the Kobe/Gasol Lakers in 6)

Randle isnt going anywhere this offseason. While fans may want him gone and I get it now's not the time. You are gonna get at least another start to the year with Obi fighting for minutes off the bench. Hopefully Randle plays more like he did in his MIP season. Anything in the middle would really boost this squad. I expect other guys to improve as well, or pick up where they left off

Randle has yet to match Melo's achievements here going into season 4, and he's not even in the same solar system clutch-wise.

Either way, I still think Randle deserves another shot at redemption. Especially if he can take advantage and play nice with the group he now has.

TheGame wrote:The issue is really more a question of what can you get for Randle. He is too good just to trade for the sake of getting rid of him. We would have to get back something that really helps our team. If we could find a good trade, I would trade Randle in a heartbeat. I think Toppin has more long term potential, and Randle’s lack of consistent defense and his questionable attitude from last year makes moving him seem like a solid move for the team but we have to get back solid value for him.

What is Randle’s potential at age 28? 2nd-3rd All NBA/Allstar. Its where he was.
Will be 28 in November
Vs. 24(25 in March) late blooming potential former college player of the year.

Ask a non pro like Nalod I’d have to say year 3 is for OBI to show his stuff and has to earn his minutes. He might have already. He has to create his own shot more and that outside shot show is fixed.

Randle is not a bad defender. Look it up. He is distracted, argumentative, and perhaps it was born from frustration on the court and perhaps off. Every GM saw what we saw but knows more and is not emotionally offended by him. What is his real value? How is his contact percieved? Not by overly stimulated fans like us, but by objective pro’s but whose job is to try to obtain talent for the least bit of cost.

Naturally its june and we look at the best teams and try to envision how to replicate that. Neither of our finals teams has a traditional low or high post player, or a rim runner that dominates like Mitch in that space. Williams on Boston is active and very good.

Tatum has been demonstrating great patiencce to let the game come to him or he takes it to the rim. The biggest thing is he moves the ball. We have this immage of Randle not and even are putting him in a Melo Box and labeling them as similar. Lets be real, Melo was a wing and Randle a PF now evolving into a Point Forward with mixed results. Some good, some not so good. But……….what is being asked of him and what is he not executing? And, if high tempo is the name of the game can he relax, ith contract in hand, and not worry about stats and move the ball. It will come back to him.

Boston is doing this without a star PG. SMart is a very good player but not the prototypical PG. That Ime trusts him and it took how many years to refine his game to this level? Patience. He is 28. Maybe Mcbride can become this type of player in 6 years? LOL!

Can Randle exist with OBi for some time? There was no real commitment to this last season.

Statwise: EF, Randle and RJ put up good numbers but inefficient. Granted, EF early was awful, RJ was sick and not good also until January, and by then Randle was in a tizz. OBI struggled until he found a rhythem and IQ did get better at making decisions with time.

This enough to run back with? I doubt the FO stands pat as we hae a log jam of players who need to play and have value. Draft night could be fun this year.

Enjoy the finals and that Jason Tatum is only 24! Potentially he has not hit his prime yet.

MVP types Giannis, Embiid and Jokic say hello and they coming back.

jrodmc wrote:I swear I did not put Berman up to this.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=146742774

So both Marbles and Melo have Berman as a groupie? LMAO

That article is part of the pay per edition. Can anyone quote it?

JRODMC, Lin was first player from Tawain and made quite a following here. Does he get a video send off?

FYI, I Have no problem with Melo getting one BTW. Not his number retired here. If Denver wants to do that, thats fine.
Knicks have made a high bar of it. IF Melo was here 10 plus seasons I suppose he be in Ewing territory and deserving. He was 7 years both in NY and Denver. Not enough special moments or accomplishments as a knick other than excellent individual performances and stats. He’ll be so honored for that when he goes into the HOF. If we base it on HOF, then Bernard King gets retired (2.5 years but he dominated as a knick), and I suppose McAdoo? Spencer Haywood got in for is early career dominance, but he was a knick for a few seaosns.

Funny, While I am totally an earl Monroe fan………….Rookie of the year, one time All NBA team but one stat stood out……Just 4 all star nods. Yet he not only made top 50 of all time, but stayed on the list as top 75 of all time. I get the HOF, he avged 41 pts his senior year in college which counts. His artistry counts. His logevity counts. But to make that top 75 list given his lack of dominance. If not a knick I wonder if he would have made those lists. Im glad he did!!!!

MaTT4281 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:well, I love Melo and thought he was one of our very best players

I thought Randle's season two seasons ago was one of the very best seasons in franchise history

I'd say right now I am 49 percent in favor of keeping him, and 51 percent in favor of trading him. Melo was not mentally fragile. He didn't feel compelled to tell me or his dissenters to stfu. I guess I question if Randle is man enough for NYC

I'm right there with you - although I may be closer to 45% keep him/55% trade him. I tend to flip flop lately.

Rehabbing his game/value obviously going to yield best returns (whether we keep or trade). I really don't think fixing his game is that complicated. A lot of the struggles came from his outside shot this year. 2021 Randle hit it at a good clip, opening up lanes, collapsing defenses leaving other guys open. 2022 Randle just couldn't find his groove. Defense slags, and we see more dribbling, more iso, more turnovers. If there's one thing I could have him work on this summer, it's the 3 (or at least the 18 footer).

At the same time, his overall demeanor and disinterest this year is pretty damning. Be frustrated, whatever, but the way he let that impact him is too toxic. He is clearly not comfortable handing over the reigns to RJ and has destroyed whatever confidence I had in him to actually be a leader on this team. Melo, even with his stubbornness, handled the NY pressure and media as well as you can. If Randle handled it the same, we'd be talking about a disappointing year, but I don't think pushing him out the door.

Big summer for the FO. Need to keep constant tabs on Julius and figure out of we're in for another Player's Tribune article or a jar of Vaseline.

Agree with both of you though tilting more toward dumping Randle because that attitude can become cancerous.

i suspect if after the thumbs-down, STFU incident he had played out of his mind and made us shut up, we'd be having a different conversation.

That said, i think Randle's and RJ's success two years ago were largely the result of Thibs. People don't just magically increase their shooting % that much in one year by becoming more accurate -- at least not IMO. Instead, the coach had them taking less bad shots and sticking to the shots they could hit. Teams got wise to this and by the next season adjusted and the Knicks didn't or couldn't counter-adjust. Randle forced things resorting to old bad habits of ISO,etc.

this is a pivotal year. I think the FO is going to give Randle another chance yet honestly open to legitimate deals. There are a lot of guys on Knicks who seem to genuinely enjoy playing for one another; Randle needs to shape up or be shipped out

Chandler wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:well, I love Melo and thought he was one of our very best players

I thought Randle's season two seasons ago was one of the very best seasons in franchise history

I'd say right now I am 49 percent in favor of keeping him, and 51 percent in favor of trading him. Melo was not mentally fragile. He didn't feel compelled to tell me or his dissenters to stfu. I guess I question if Randle is man enough for NYC

I'm right there with you - although I may be closer to 45% keep him/55% trade him. I tend to flip flop lately.

Rehabbing his game/value obviously going to yield best returns (whether we keep or trade). I really don't think fixing his game is that complicated. A lot of the struggles came from his outside shot this year. 2021 Randle hit it at a good clip, opening up lanes, collapsing defenses leaving other guys open. 2022 Randle just couldn't find his groove. Defense slags, and we see more dribbling, more iso, more turnovers. If there's one thing I could have him work on this summer, it's the 3 (or at least the 18 footer).

At the same time, his overall demeanor and disinterest this year is pretty damning. Be frustrated, whatever, but the way he let that impact him is too toxic. He is clearly not comfortable handing over the reigns to RJ and has destroyed whatever confidence I had in him to actually be a leader on this team. Melo, even with his stubbornness, handled the NY pressure and media as well as you can. If Randle handled it the same, we'd be talking about a disappointing year, but I don't think pushing him out the door.

Big summer for the FO. Need to keep constant tabs on Julius and figure out of we're in for another Player's Tribune article or a jar of Vaseline.

Agree with both of you though tilting more toward dumping Randle because that attitude can become cancerous.

i suspect if after the thumbs-down, STFU incident he had played out of his mind and made us shut up, we'd be having a different conversation.

That said, i think Randle's and RJ's success two years ago were largely the result of Thibs. People don't just magically increase their shooting % that much in one year by becoming more accurate -- at least not IMO. Instead, the coach had them taking less bad shots and sticking to the shots they could hit. Teams got wise to this and by the next season adjusted and the Knicks didn't or couldn't counter-adjust. Randle forced things resorting to old bad habits of ISO,etc.

this is a pivotal year. I think the FO is going to give Randle another chance yet honestly open to legitimate deals. There are a lot of guys on Knicks who seem to genuinely enjoy playing for one another; Randle needs to shape up or be shipped out

For the 100th time. He told a reporter to STFU. Not fans.
He only gave tumb down to the boo. Lets not blow it out of proportion. Not like he took a dump on the Knick logo and gave fans the finger.

All that and other, and there was no evidence he was a cancer. This team never stopped fighting and Thibs never lost them. The yoot look joyful and teh vets like Taj, and Burks were all in.

All we got are argumentative Randle who was not focused on defense at times. Not good, but awful. We got one incident where he argued with an assist and we don’t know what the deal was. shove a video in his face while heated? He might have said “Get that out of my face, I know what I did wrong”? NOt “Im gonna kill you and your whole family if you dare to question my royalty”. What was it?

Not even me says he is without fault and needs to find a lessor role or better outward attitude to either his internall frustration or that with teammates. But lets not go so far to say we know what is going on. If its bad, lets discuss it. If its not, why make things up?

Chandler wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:well, I love Melo and thought he was one of our very best players

I thought Randle's season two seasons ago was one of the very best seasons in franchise history

I'd say right now I am 49 percent in favor of keeping him, and 51 percent in favor of trading him. Melo was not mentally fragile. He didn't feel compelled to tell me or his dissenters to stfu. I guess I question if Randle is man enough for NYC

I'm right there with you - although I may be closer to 45% keep him/55% trade him. I tend to flip flop lately.

Rehabbing his game/value obviously going to yield best returns (whether we keep or trade). I really don't think fixing his game is that complicated. A lot of the struggles came from his outside shot this year. 2021 Randle hit it at a good clip, opening up lanes, collapsing defenses leaving other guys open. 2022 Randle just couldn't find his groove. Defense slags, and we see more dribbling, more iso, more turnovers. If there's one thing I could have him work on this summer, it's the 3 (or at least the 18 footer).

At the same time, his overall demeanor and disinterest this year is pretty damning. Be frustrated, whatever, but the way he let that impact him is too toxic. He is clearly not comfortable handing over the reigns to RJ and has destroyed whatever confidence I had in him to actually be a leader on this team. Melo, even with his stubbornness, handled the NY pressure and media as well as you can. If Randle handled it the same, we'd be talking about a disappointing year, but I don't think pushing him out the door.

Big summer for the FO. Need to keep constant tabs on Julius and figure out of we're in for another Player's Tribune article or a jar of Vaseline.

Agree with both of you though tilting more toward dumping Randle because that attitude can become cancerous.

i suspect if after the thumbs-down, STFU incident he had played out of his mind and made us shut up, we'd be having a different conversation.

That said, i think Randle's and RJ's success two years ago were largely the result of Thibs. People don't just magically increase their shooting % that much in one year by becoming more accurate -- at least not IMO. Instead, the coach had them taking less bad shots and sticking to the shots they could hit. Teams got wise to this and by the next season adjusted and the Knicks didn't or couldn't counter-adjust. Randle forced things resorting to old bad habits of ISO,etc.

this is a pivotal year. I think the FO is going to give Randle another chance yet honestly open to legitimate deals. There are a lot of guys on Knicks who seem to genuinely enjoy playing for one another; Randle needs to shape up or be shipped out

The only way Randle returns next season and things don't go south immediately is if he a) shoots unbelievably or b) plays decent but doesn't hold the ball anymore, doesn't complain and hustles consistently. Problem is Randle has shown that last season was not the only time he struggled with his emotions (Laker videos) and is likely to have bad games as all pros do. Bad games at this point will result in boos as Randle has placed a target on his back from last season's behavior and poor performance.

Can Randle mature enough to not respond poorly when he has had a bad game and the crowd boos and chants for Obi? I expect that scenario to happen - just a question of how long into the season before it happens...