BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:We got 30 threads on Randle sucking this season but no one even mentions RJ being one of two players in the league to shoot less than 50% at the rim? Obi is a less efficient Bullock in the half court. This toxic fan base is the worst. Pacers loved Sabonis despite him and Randle being basically the same player. what gives?

They are not the same player. I'll concede that Randle has more talent. But Sabonis has been performing at a more consistent level than Randle throughout their careers. Also, I don't believe Sabonis has ever told his fanbase to STFU.

I would take Sabonis any day over Randle - better attitude, more willing passer, etc... as for RJ - he's 21/22 compared to Randle who's 27 so while he needs to improve his efficiency - he would still be in college so most of us think he will continue to improve. If he doesn't in a season or two - they'll move on from him as well.

You can shred Toppin for his inconsistency and stats (compared to Randle), but he moves the ball, plays at a fast pace, and is liked by his teammates. You subtract Randle and add Toppin and the team seems to function better overall (regardless of ind stats).

jskinny35 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:We got 30 threads on Randle sucking this season but no one even mentions RJ being one of two players in the league to shoot less than 50% at the rim? Obi is a less efficient Bullock in the half court. This toxic fan base is the worst. Pacers loved Sabonis despite him and Randle being basically the same player. what gives?

They are not the same player. I'll concede that Randle has more talent. But Sabonis has been performing at a more consistent level than Randle throughout their careers. Also, I don't believe Sabonis has ever told his fanbase to STFU.

I would take Sabonis any day over Randle - better attitude, more willing passer, etc... as for RJ - he's 21/22 compared to Randle who's 27 so while he needs to improve his efficiency - he would still be in college so most of us think he will continue to improve. If he doesn't in a season or two - they'll move on from him as well.

You can shred Toppin for his inconsistency and stats (compared to Randle), but he moves the ball, plays at a fast pace, and is liked by his teammates. You subtract Randle and add Toppin and the team seems to function better overall (regardless of ind stats).

The thing with RJ is his play also regressed this season. I don't think teams really prepped for the Knicks last season. Knicks were healthy last year and got some lucky wins. This season Kemba sunk the team early and then they played without a PG. Randle has 3 spots where he converted from at an absurd rate last year, teams were able to push him out of his comfort zone this season. Adding an all NBA level PG will open up the court for everyone, that's why it's imperative the Knicks make a trade before the 2023 deadline. Knicks need more talent, not less.

Philc1 wrote:There’s only 2 paths:

A) Randle plays better next season, Knicks overall are better and get the 8th or 9th seed

B) Randle continues to be a ball stopper on offense, Knicks win less games next year, he gets Thibs fired after demanding a trade and eventually just getting a buyout

I’d say with fair confidence he won’t get bought out. He has a new 4 year deal that starts. Thats just really silly. Can’t vouch that Thibs lasts or Randle is not a ball stopper. Only two paths? That limited.

wargames wrote:I think they keep him. His contract is designed to always be around top 50 in cost and if he hit the incentives that means he played better. I think they sit on him and see if he can build that trade value before they look to jettison.

Agreed. Just get him a PG and another player he can rely on to take the load off his shoulders. He is a very good second option. Especially if he accepts that role. Problem is we do not have a first option.

gradyandrew wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:We got 30 threads on Randle sucking this season but no one even mentions RJ being one of two players in the league to shoot less than 50% at the rim? Obi is a less efficient Bullock in the half court. This toxic fan base is the worst. Pacers loved Sabonis despite him and Randle being basically the same player. what gives?

They are not the same player. I'll concede that Randle has more talent. But Sabonis has been performing at a more consistent level than Randle throughout their careers. Also, I don't believe Sabonis has ever told his fanbase to STFU.

I would take Sabonis any day over Randle - better attitude, more willing passer, etc... as for RJ - he's 21/22 compared to Randle who's 27 so while he needs to improve his efficiency - he would still be in college so most of us think he will continue to improve. If he doesn't in a season or two - they'll move on from him as well.

You can shred Toppin for his inconsistency and stats (compared to Randle), but he moves the ball, plays at a fast pace, and is liked by his teammates. You subtract Randle and add Toppin and the team seems to function better overall (regardless of ind stats).

The thing with RJ is his play also regressed this season. I don't think teams really prepped for the Knicks last season. Knicks were healthy last year and got some lucky wins. This season Kemba sunk the team early and then they played without a PG. Randle has 3 spots where he converted from at an absurd rate last year, teams were able to push him out of his comfort zone this season. Adding an all NBA level PG will open up the court for everyone, that's why it's imperative the Knicks make a trade before the 2023 deadline. Knicks need more talent, not less.

The thing with RJ Barrett has been his talent/skills/and IQ level were not ready for the NBA level of basketball in 2019 and 2020.
The 2019 NBA Draft Class were a poor GLeague draft class which featured super-star Ja Morrant. If Barrett stayed a year or two and came out in the 2020 or 2021 draft class he would not have been a top 10 pick.
After 3 seasons of receiving 35 min per game, and the green light to shoot whenever on the Knicks, Barrett's NBA growth has been taking baby-steps. Barrett's inconsistent performance in 2020-21 season needed a mentor in his lineup (Dinwiddie & Derozan) during his 3rd season in the NBA.

Kemet wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

wargames wrote:I think they keep him. His contract is designed to always be around top 50 in cost and if he hit the incentives that means he played better. I think they sit on him and see if he can build that trade value before they look to jettison.

Agreed. Just get him a PG and another player he can rely on to take the load off his shoulders. He is a very good second option. Especially if he accepts that role. Problem is we do not have a first option.

Said it perfectly! Every one we have is fighting above their weight. Add Lillard, heck or even Kyrie and Randle can concentrate on rebounds, passing out to the perimeter on drives, and good shots, RJ on wing defense, etc. all down the line. That's why I don't like the idea of getting Brunson- I don't think he can carry the offense.

The Knicks organization making Randle a super-star captain of the team after Randle had his first decent NBA season, which was in a Covid-19 Empty stadium season, and not recalling Randle's previous 6 losing seasons .. has made the Knicks entire FO questionable ???

Lets say the Knicks find away to get us a decent starter PG (Dinwiddie, and healthy D.Rose) for the 2022-23 season, and keeps Randle too. Does Randle have the talent to play the PF position (and just the PF position) for an above .500 team? I dont think so!
Randle's first 6 season in the NBA he played at the PF position, and all 3 teams never played above a .450 season having Randle at the PF spot. Because a PF are more than just grabbing defensive rebounds.
Randle received the "Most Improve Player" award from being a Bust, than Bum, than all-star (how did Randle look in the all-star game? Out of place.).
When Randle was at Kentucky his perfomance showed he would be a decent SF in the NBA

Randle played 1 game his first season. So there is that.
Those Laker years were a cluster filled with a revolving door of mismatched free agents every year. Not even a top 3 player of all time was able to help those teams. Not to mention Randle was not even a top three option. But let's pretend you knew that and he was the main reason for their lack of success. The first year he was a top three option was with NOP and he put up 20/10.
The Knicks FO did not "make" him a superstar. He has yet to be that. The Knicks just realized that he had an All Start year and could be a long term producer. They decided to extend him at what they thought would be a decent price. Their view proved to be correct as he once again had a decent production year.
Now if you want to argue that he should not be a first option, needs to stop dribbling up the court, has to refrain from his negative body language, needs a PG and has to keep defensive effort despite bad offensive games then yes, I would agree. My point has always been that we have had few players that are good. Randle had an All Star year. He is a double double. Perhaps keeping him an adding MORE good players should be the plan. Not getting rid of them because they could not single handedly bring us a chip. If we fail to make playoffs despite having 5 solid starters at every position, then it's time to look at what pieces do not match. But we were far from that this past year. Hoping we get a solid PG and a guy that can stretch the floor at the 5. Think we have a good bench and young pieces that are in the verge of taking it up a level.

Philc1 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Philc1 wrote:There’s only 2 paths:

A) Randle plays better next season, Knicks overall are better and get the 8th or 9th seed

B) Randle continues to be a ball stopper on offense, Knicks win less games next year, he gets Thibs fired after demanding a trade and eventually just getting a buyout

So your thought is that the Knicks are potentially going to opt to have $28m per year dead cap hit on a guy 20/10/5 guy who is under 30.

They’ve done it before why not again

when? I know math is not your strong suit but you talking about Noahs deal?
you have been given hints as to why this is different. In fact, when you gloriously spewed his full cap hold with incentives that alone was a hint to perhaps take a non lazy moment before you type one of your unworthy one line self congratulatory simple inaccurate burbs you find so amusing.