franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I take it that we've given up on McBride or Grimes getting PG minutes?

I'm fine with going into next season with largely the same roster, with McBride and IQ as our PG with some Burks and hopefully Rose.

But, is Thibs going to play McBride?

And, are you and everyone else ok with missing the play offs again? I'm encouraged by the play of IQ down the stretch, and the rest of the young players. If they start the season the way we finished, then I think the play offs are a realistic expectation, but I'm not sure if they realistically can. We'll need Randle to play up and RJ to get a lot more efficient.

I don’t see how Brunson on his own, can lift us into the second round. We already proved we can make the playoffs with this roster. I would think the goal should be 2nd round or higher. Is a maxed out Brunson going to lead us to the 2nd round? How much maneuvering will we have financially if we give Brunson the max? And what’s our next move or is that our only move?

Depending on the above answers will dictate how I feel from a fans perspective. And I don’t get this Thibs will not play McBride stuff. He hand picked McBride personally and even pulled him into the rotation towards the end of the season that resulted in a positive impact on the team. Thibs will play whoever he’s forced to play. If we draft a PG and or add Brunson, then deuce will not play. Thibs already showed us he’s going to play players based on the pecking order from the front office. He’s not going to sit players the FO add, just to play deuce. But he will play deuce if he has no choice. And that’s assuming the FO doesn’t over crowd the PG spot with vets and or a rookie from the draft.

Defensively in my opinion deuce is still the best PG defender on this years roster and next years roster, without even knowing the PG land scape of this years draft. Kennedy is an option and he has decent enough defense with better offense. I’m ok with him or drafting someone that will jump ahead of deuce if they are the better player. But I would think grooming deuce as an option to be the backup would be ideal. Spend that extra Brunson money on the other holes we have to fill like center, wing defender more consistent catch and shoot players, etc. plus Dallas already said they not letting him go.

As long as Randle is the #1 option on this team, we will be competing for play-in spots for the foreseeable future, regardless if Brunson, McBride, or Burks are running the point.

In a way, that is a compliment to Randle - he will singlehandedly keep us in contention, regardless of what trash we have on the roster!

I feel the same way about Randle- I worry that he is a negative influence. But if a 40 year old Jason Kidd got Melo to the playoffs, I'm sure there is a PG out there that can help! Whether we can get them is the question.

Compliment? There's a difference between competing for and actually grabbing a seed. 10 of the 15 teams in the east made the playoffs (play-in, and with Randle leading the way, we finished bottom 5. Even if we were to secure a 10th seed, is that really anything to celebrate?

The bad news is Brunson is getting somewhat "exposed" I suppose. The good news is it makes him more obtainable? As many have stated maxing him is an "I was high" statement. He is a good player and would help us, but in no way should we overpay with money and assets. The big question among other big questions is how do we improve the PG position? Does a progressing IQ plus a maybe healthy Rose plus Deuce plus whomever solve? Brunson at a fair price why not. Pipe dream savior? Uh uh.

Uptown wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I take it that we've given up on McBride or Grimes getting PG minutes?

I'm fine with going into next season with largely the same roster, with McBride and IQ as our PG with some Burks and hopefully Rose.

But, is Thibs going to play McBride?

And, are you and everyone else ok with missing the play offs again? I'm encouraged by the play of IQ down the stretch, and the rest of the young players. If they start the season the way we finished, then I think the play offs are a realistic expectation, but I'm not sure if they realistically can. We'll need Randle to play up and RJ to get a lot more efficient.

I don’t see how Brunson on his own, can lift us into the second round. We already proved we can make the playoffs with this roster. I would think the goal should be 2nd round or higher. Is a maxed out Brunson going to lead us to the 2nd round? How much maneuvering will we have financially if we give Brunson the max? And what’s our next move or is that our only move?

Depending on the above answers will dictate how I feel from a fans perspective. And I don’t get this Thibs will not play McBride stuff. He hand picked McBride personally and even pulled him into the rotation towards the end of the season that resulted in a positive impact on the team. Thibs will play whoever he’s forced to play. If we draft a PG and or add Brunson, then deuce will not play. Thibs already showed us he’s going to play players based on the pecking order from the front office. He’s not going to sit players the FO add, just to play deuce. But he will play deuce if he has no choice. And that’s assuming the FO doesn’t over crowd the PG spot with vets and or a rookie from the draft.

Defensively in my opinion deuce is still the best PG defender on this years roster and next years roster, without even knowing the PG land scape of this years draft. Kennedy is an option and he has decent enough defense with better offense. I’m ok with him or drafting someone that will jump ahead of deuce if they are the better player. But I would think grooming deuce as an option to be the backup would be ideal. Spend that extra Brunson money on the other holes we have to fill like center, wing defender more consistent catch and shoot players, etc. plus Dallas already said they not letting him go.

As long as Randle is the #1 option on this team, we will be competing for play-in spots for the foreseeable future, regardless if Brunson, McBride, or Burks are running the point.

In a way, that is a compliment to Randle - he will singlehandedly keep us in contention, regardless of what trash we have on the roster!

I feel the same way about Randle- I worry that he is a negative influence. But if a 40 year old Jason Kidd got Melo to the playoffs, I'm sure there is a PG out there that can help! Whether we can get them is the question.

Compliment? There's a difference between competing for and actually grabbing a seed. 10 of the 15 teams in the east made the playoffs (play-in, and with Randle leading the way, we finished bottom 5. Even if we were to secure a 10th seed, is that really anything to celebrate?

Of anyone who played any minutes only McBride has a lower TS% or EFG% than Randle and RJ.
The highest usage % on the team: Randle and RJ
Leading the team in FGA: Randle and RJ

We literally have the two most inefficient players taking the first and second most shots. That is nuts, but also pretty easy to explain. Randle's FG volumes were based on last year, while RJ's are based on the future. There is going to be a shift at some point and with the emergence of some young scoring there should certainly be a call for more balance.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I take it that we've given up on McBride or Grimes getting PG minutes?

I'm fine with going into next season with largely the same roster, with McBride and IQ as our PG with some Burks and hopefully Rose.

But, is Thibs going to play McBride?

And, are you and everyone else ok with missing the play offs again? I'm encouraged by the play of IQ down the stretch, and the rest of the young players. If they start the season the way we finished, then I think the play offs are a realistic expectation, but I'm not sure if they realistically can. We'll need Randle to play up and RJ to get a lot more efficient.

I don’t see how Brunson on his own, can lift us into the second round. We already proved we can make the playoffs with this roster. I would think the goal should be 2nd round or higher. Is a maxed out Brunson going to lead us to the 2nd round? How much maneuvering will we have financially if we give Brunson the max? And what’s our next move or is that our only move?

Depending on the above answers will dictate how I feel from a fans perspective. And I don’t get this Thibs will not play McBride stuff. He hand picked McBride personally and even pulled him into the rotation towards the end of the season that resulted in a positive impact on the team. Thibs will play whoever he’s forced to play. If we draft a PG and or add Brunson, then deuce will not play. Thibs already showed us he’s going to play players based on the pecking order from the front office. He’s not going to sit players the FO add, just to play deuce. But he will play deuce if he has no choice. And that’s assuming the FO doesn’t over crowd the PG spot with vets and or a rookie from the draft.

Defensively in my opinion deuce is still the best PG defender on this years roster and next years roster, without even knowing the PG land scape of this years draft. Kennedy is an option and he has decent enough defense with better offense. I’m ok with him or drafting someone that will jump ahead of deuce if they are the better player. But I would think grooming deuce as an option to be the backup would be ideal. Spend that extra Brunson money on the other holes we have to fill like center, wing defender more consistent catch and shoot players, etc. plus Dallas already said they not letting him go.

As long as Randle is the #1 option on this team, we will be competing for play-in spots for the foreseeable future, regardless if Brunson, McBride, or Burks are running the point.

In a way, that is a compliment to Randle - he will singlehandedly keep us in contention, regardless of what trash we have on the roster!

I feel the same way about Randle- I worry that he is a negative influence. But if a 40 year old Jason Kidd got Melo to the playoffs, I'm sure there is a PG out there that can help! Whether we can get them is the question.

Compliment? There's a difference between competing for and actually grabbing a seed. 10 of the 15 teams in the east made the playoffs (play-in, and with Randle leading the way, we finished bottom 5. Even if we were to secure a 10th seed, is that really anything to celebrate?

The Knicks shooting #s are wild last year.

Of anyone who played any minutes only McBride has a lower TS% or EFG% than Randle and RJ.
The highest usage % on the team: Randle and RJ
Leading the team in FGA: Randle and RJ

We literally have the two most inefficient players taking the first and second most shots. That is nuts, but also pretty easy to explain. Randle's FG volumes were based on last year, while RJ's are based on the future. There is going to be a shift at some point and with the emergence of some young scoring there should certainly be a call for more balance.

In another thread, I mentioned that our two highest usage players are inefficient, which is one of the reasons why we are inconsistent. At some point, Randle or RJ need to be moved. RJ is still developing his game and has age on his side which seemingly makes Randle the most likely candidate to be moved. From the front office's perspective, it might be a good time to pivot to a youth movement by moving Randle and inserting Obi into the starting lineup. Maybe turn the keys over to IQ if we can't land a better pg option. The fan-base will embrace this movement and it can buy the front office more time.

With that said, the connections and relationship between Randle and this front office runs deep and as much as I do not want to see him back in the blue and orange, I am almost certain they are going to run it back with him, again. I don't see a player available that we can add to RJ and Randle without giving up much that will replace either of the two as a #1 or #2 option. There's a good chance we will have another up and down year, fighting for seeds 8-10. By this time next year, rumors of Thibs and Leon being on the hot seat will be more intense as will the trade Randle articles...

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I take it that we've given up on McBride or Grimes getting PG minutes?

I'm fine with going into next season with largely the same roster, with McBride and IQ as our PG with some Burks and hopefully Rose.

But, is Thibs going to play McBride?

And, are you and everyone else ok with missing the play offs again? I'm encouraged by the play of IQ down the stretch, and the rest of the young players. If they start the season the way we finished, then I think the play offs are a realistic expectation, but I'm not sure if they realistically can. We'll need Randle to play up and RJ to get a lot more efficient.

I don’t see how Brunson on his own, can lift us into the second round. We already proved we can make the playoffs with this roster. I would think the goal should be 2nd round or higher. Is a maxed out Brunson going to lead us to the 2nd round? How much maneuvering will we have financially if we give Brunson the max? And what’s our next move or is that our only move?

Depending on the above answers will dictate how I feel from a fans perspective. And I don’t get this Thibs will not play McBride stuff. He hand picked McBride personally and even pulled him into the rotation towards the end of the season that resulted in a positive impact on the team. Thibs will play whoever he’s forced to play. If we draft a PG and or add Brunson, then deuce will not play. Thibs already showed us he’s going to play players based on the pecking order from the front office. He’s not going to sit players the FO add, just to play deuce. But he will play deuce if he has no choice. And that’s assuming the FO doesn’t over crowd the PG spot with vets and or a rookie from the draft.

Defensively in my opinion deuce is still the best PG defender on this years roster and next years roster, without even knowing the PG land scape of this years draft. Kennedy is an option and he has decent enough defense with better offense. I’m ok with him or drafting someone that will jump ahead of deuce if they are the better player. But I would think grooming deuce as an option to be the backup would be ideal. Spend that extra Brunson money on the other holes we have to fill like center, wing defender more consistent catch and shoot players, etc. plus Dallas already said they not letting him go.

As long as Randle is the #1 option on this team, we will be competing for play-in spots for the foreseeable future, regardless if Brunson, McBride, or Burks are running the point.

In a way, that is a compliment to Randle - he will singlehandedly keep us in contention, regardless of what trash we have on the roster!

I feel the same way about Randle- I worry that he is a negative influence. But if a 40 year old Jason Kidd got Melo to the playoffs, I'm sure there is a PG out there that can help! Whether we can get them is the question.

Compliment? There's a difference between competing for and actually grabbing a seed. 10 of the 15 teams in the east made the playoffs (play-in, and with Randle leading the way, we finished bottom 5. Even if we were to secure a 10th seed, is that really anything to celebrate?

The Knicks shooting #s are wild last year.

Of anyone who played any minutes only McBride has a lower TS% or EFG% than Randle and RJ.
The highest usage % on the team: Randle and RJ
Leading the team in FGA: Randle and RJ

We literally have the two most inefficient players taking the first and second most shots. That is nuts, but also pretty easy to explain. Randle's FG volumes were based on last year, while RJ's are based on the future. There is going to be a shift at some point and with the emergence of some young scoring there should certainly be a call for more balance.

In another thread, I mentioned that our two highest usage players are inefficient, which is one of the reasons why we are inconsistent. At some point, Randle or RJ need to be moved. RJ is still developing his game and has age on his side which seemingly makes Randle the most likely candidate to be moved. From the front office's perspective, it might be a good time to pivot to a youth movement by moving Randle and inserting Obi into the starting lineup. Maybe turn the keys over to IQ if we can't land a better pg option. The fan-base will embrace this movement and it can buy the front office more time.

With that said, the connections and relationship between Randle and this front office runs deep and as much as I do not want to see him back in the blue and orange, I am almost certain they are going to run it back with him, again. I don't see a player available that we can add to RJ and Randle without giving up much that will replace either of the two as a #1 or #2 option. There's a good chance we will have another up and down year, fighting for seeds 8-10. By this time next year, rumors of Thibs and Leon being on the hot seat will be more intense as will the trade Randle articles...

They dont need to be moved... they need to get better. More than half the rotation are on rookie deals with a good developmental coaching staff. Like it or not this is the time for patience

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

blkexec wrote:

franco12 wrote:

technomaster wrote:I take it that we've given up on McBride or Grimes getting PG minutes?

I'm fine with going into next season with largely the same roster, with McBride and IQ as our PG with some Burks and hopefully Rose.

But, is Thibs going to play McBride?

And, are you and everyone else ok with missing the play offs again? I'm encouraged by the play of IQ down the stretch, and the rest of the young players. If they start the season the way we finished, then I think the play offs are a realistic expectation, but I'm not sure if they realistically can. We'll need Randle to play up and RJ to get a lot more efficient.

I don’t see how Brunson on his own, can lift us into the second round. We already proved we can make the playoffs with this roster. I would think the goal should be 2nd round or higher. Is a maxed out Brunson going to lead us to the 2nd round? How much maneuvering will we have financially if we give Brunson the max? And what’s our next move or is that our only move?

Depending on the above answers will dictate how I feel from a fans perspective. And I don’t get this Thibs will not play McBride stuff. He hand picked McBride personally and even pulled him into the rotation towards the end of the season that resulted in a positive impact on the team. Thibs will play whoever he’s forced to play. If we draft a PG and or add Brunson, then deuce will not play. Thibs already showed us he’s going to play players based on the pecking order from the front office. He’s not going to sit players the FO add, just to play deuce. But he will play deuce if he has no choice. And that’s assuming the FO doesn’t over crowd the PG spot with vets and or a rookie from the draft.

Defensively in my opinion deuce is still the best PG defender on this years roster and next years roster, without even knowing the PG land scape of this years draft. Kennedy is an option and he has decent enough defense with better offense. I’m ok with him or drafting someone that will jump ahead of deuce if they are the better player. But I would think grooming deuce as an option to be the backup would be ideal. Spend that extra Brunson money on the other holes we have to fill like center, wing defender more consistent catch and shoot players, etc. plus Dallas already said they not letting him go.

As long as Randle is the #1 option on this team, we will be competing for play-in spots for the foreseeable future, regardless if Brunson, McBride, or Burks are running the point.

In a way, that is a compliment to Randle - he will singlehandedly keep us in contention, regardless of what trash we have on the roster!

I feel the same way about Randle- I worry that he is a negative influence. But if a 40 year old Jason Kidd got Melo to the playoffs, I'm sure there is a PG out there that can help! Whether we can get them is the question.

Compliment? There's a difference between competing for and actually grabbing a seed. 10 of the 15 teams in the east made the playoffs (play-in, and with Randle leading the way, we finished bottom 5. Even if we were to secure a 10th seed, is that really anything to celebrate?

The Knicks shooting #s are wild last year.

Of anyone who played any minutes only McBride has a lower TS% or EFG% than Randle and RJ.
The highest usage % on the team: Randle and RJ
Leading the team in FGA: Randle and RJ

We literally have the two most inefficient players taking the first and second most shots. That is nuts, but also pretty easy to explain. Randle's FG volumes were based on last year, while RJ's are based on the future. There is going to be a shift at some point and with the emergence of some young scoring there should certainly be a call for more balance.

In another thread, I mentioned that our two highest usage players are inefficient, which is one of the reasons why we are inconsistent. At some point, Randle or RJ need to be moved. RJ is still developing his game and has age on his side which seemingly makes Randle the most likely candidate to be moved. From the front office's perspective, it might be a good time to pivot to a youth movement by moving Randle and inserting Obi into the starting lineup. Maybe turn the keys over to IQ if we can't land a better pg option. The fan-base will embrace this movement and it can buy the front office more time.

With that said, the connections and relationship between Randle and this front office runs deep and as much as I do not want to see him back in the blue and orange, I am almost certain they are going to run it back with him, again. I don't see a player available that we can add to RJ and Randle without giving up much that will replace either of the two as a #1 or #2 option. There's a good chance we will have another up and down year, fighting for seeds 8-10. By this time next year, rumors of Thibs and Leon being on the hot seat will be more intense as will the trade Randle articles...

really? Thats the only scenario you can envision? Nothing like they "figure it out" and resume where they picked off the year before when they were fighting for homecourt?

They dont need to be moved... they need to get better. More than half the rotation are on rookie deals with a good developmental coaching staff. Like it or not this is the time for patience

I think there is room for improvement, but more than that, adjustments are needed. Thibs offense is iso-centric which plays into the way Randle wants to play, unfortunately, he is an inefficient iso-player. I don’t see him improving much if we continue to play Randle-ball. Can he adjust? Of course. Will he adjust is the better question. And will Thibs force him to adjust is the best question.

The younger guys can improve as well, but how much will Obi be able to excel with 10-15 minutes of court time? Will Thibs adjust and commit to a faster pace for 48 mins as opposed to doing it when the bench mobb is on the floor? Thibs believes in 48 mins of rim protection. Will he adjust and allow Obi and Randle to share the floor?
I also noticed you highlighted the part about us competing for seeds 8-10. I know most of us only focus on the Knicks, but we have to account for how competitive the teams in the east are. Finishing 11th in the east had just as much to do with how much the east improved as it did with our poor play.

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fishmike wrote:Cause while Brunson is a really good player he's got a history of being rendered ineffective by longer athletic guards and you best be considering that when talking about moving the kind of parts it would take to engineer a deal that gets this guy here. (not the mention the contract itself)

You got me. Brunson sucks. Now wait until his next 20+ point game so I can create another thread about how great he is. No one is saying Brunson or bust. He is good player and if the Knicks can add him w/o killing their pool of assets, then they should do it. Nothing wrong with letting things play out.

really? There's 10 threads that fix our PG problems... they all say "we need Brunson"

UK mentions over the last month:
Brunson 325
Tyus Jones and others combined: 12

You dont just let this play out. I appreciate your cavalier attitude but the number of times Knick fans say "get Brunson" is just too damn much! Its pure madness and I'll not have it

Brunson dominated round 1, led the entire nba in scoring during that series and remained efficient as well. Outplayed Mitchell all series. Had 2 poor games against CP and recovered nicely yesterday. He was honestly playing his way into a max contrsct because players who dominate in a playoff series typically earn that. He’s not the end all be all, but if it’s got to the point where you are being critical of him when he doesn’t score 30 a game, what’s that saying about the expectations he now receives ? I personally hope he struggles this round because he’s become nearly unattainable as it is.

And by recovered, you mean led his team in scoring and was top for the game from both teams.

The one thing I think I’ve observed about the sons of some of the NBA players I’ve grown up watching is they are not intimated by the big stage. Is that fair to say?

gradyandrew wrote:Reggie Bullock is once again playing major minutes on a top ranked defense. He looks like a bargain on that deal. I think we all would have let out a "Knicks gonna Knick" if the front office had resigned him as well as Rose Burks and Noel, but at least he would have been an asset. I think Bullock at 9 > Fournier at 17. Something to keep in mind with Rose and IQ already under contract.

One good playoff game suddenly Reggie Bullock is the second coming of Robert Horry

The guy is a stiff

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:Cause while Brunson is a really good player he's got a history of being rendered ineffective by longer athletic guards and you best be considering that when talking about moving the kind of parts it would take to engineer a deal that gets this guy here. (not the mention the contract itself)

Think this is a fair concern. Brunson would definitely be an upgrade but the jury is still out whether he would be worth the contract talked about and an option that would carry us deep in the playoffs.

Feel there are not many options for the latter and a couple other better priced ones for the former. I like Nunn, Jones, even Brogdon. The draft may be the best place to get the cheapest long term solution. Feel the only one worth giving up assets for is Murray. But SA is keeping him.

Maybe, just maybe, Randle can be better used next season and his effeciency improves. I can see the team getting Brogdon for the 11th pick and matching contracts to make it work, if we can't get Brunson in a sign and trade for Mitch or Randal. Randal, if I recall correctly often played very well in games where the Knicks took big leads only to play selfishly in the fourth quarter in games we lost. So maybe a team of Mitch, Randal, Cam, RJ, Brogdon cam make RJ and Randal more effective. Perhaps RJ can bully sgs, helping his effeciency, and Randal with C and Brogdon helping the scoring to be spread around can help Randal be less ball dominant. Plus a bench of Quick, Grimes, Evan, Obi, Sims plus Deuce and whoever is not traded among Burks, Rose, Noel and our MLE remains. Team can be much better next year. I want Randal again just deals ng with the possibility he will be back.

Alpha1971 wrote:My post above mention need Brogdon for our 11 the pick and contracts. I don't support that plan just see it happening. Indiana has a older and often injured ph with a big contract in Brogdon and see that as a problem for them. We should offer them expiring contracts, and several second picks. We are doing them a favor. If Brogdon has the value to get back a lottery pick then we should fans no less for Randall.