After last year this is the concern. Last year in the playoffs despite shooting 46% from 3 Brunson was -9, -7, -19, -9, -10, +9 and -11 in 7 games and only played 16 minutes.

Lets see how he does against a backcourt that plays some D.

fishmike wrote:you see Brunson last night? Despite an "efficient" scoring game he was -16

After last year this is the concern. Last year in the playoffs despite shooting 46% from 3 Brunson was -9, -7, -19, -9, -10, +9 and -11 in 7 games and only played 16 minutes.

Lets see how he does against a backcourt that plays some D.

franco12 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

fishmike wrote:you see Brunson last night? Despite an "efficient" scoring game he was -16

After last year this is the concern. Last year in the playoffs despite shooting 46% from 3 Brunson was -9, -7, -19, -9, -10, +9 and -11 in 7 games and only played 16 minutes.

Lets see how he does against a backcourt that plays some D.

But let’s trade younguns and picks and max him so we can boo him.

In a perfect world, we're trading Randle and paying him $20m per year for 4 or 5.

Perfect world? That's where IQ is the 2-way stud we have be waiting for

KnickDanger wrote:

fishmike wrote:you see Brunson last night? Despite an "efficient" scoring game he was -16

After last year this is the concern. Last year in the playoffs despite shooting 46% from 3 Brunson was -9, -7, -19, -9, -10, +9 and -11 in 7 games and only played 16 minutes.

Lets see how he does against a backcourt that plays some D.

But let’s trade younguns and picks and max him so we can boo him.

Philc1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

fishmike wrote:you see Brunson last night? Despite an "efficient" scoring game he was -16

After last year this is the concern. Last year in the playoffs despite shooting 46% from 3 Brunson was -9, -7, -19, -9, -10, +9 and -11 in 7 games and only played 16 minutes.

Lets see how he does against a backcourt that plays some D.

But let’s trade younguns and picks and max him so we can boo him.

In a perfect world, we're trading Randle and paying him $20m per year for 4 or 5.

no thats a phucked up world where we are stuck behind an undersized PG for 4-5 years. You can cry your Thibs tunes every night when he plays Brunson 40 minutes a night because he's a hard worker (true) and has a great attitude (true) and is a mentor for the kids (true) and Thibs loves and trusts him (true) and we get beat every year in round because he gets smothered by longer athletic guards

Perfect world? That's where IQ is the 2-way stud we have be waiting for

Why not have both a competent starting pg that can hit shots like Brunson AND a nice two way combo Guard like Quickly coming off the bench?

IQ might be a great player- I think he might be our most dynamic talent, but we will still need help at the PG position. Our plan next season can't be just go with IQ & Burks.

Also- adding Brunson does not turn us into a championship caliber team. But we do need to balance out the roster, we need help in the back court.

In a perfect world, we're landing a top 4 pick in this draft and turning our franchise round for the next 5-10 years.

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

fishmike wrote:you see Brunson last night? Despite an "efficient" scoring game he was -16

After last year this is the concern. Last year in the playoffs despite shooting 46% from 3 Brunson was -9, -7, -19, -9, -10, +9 and -11 in 7 games and only played 16 minutes.

Lets see how he does against a backcourt that plays some D.

But let’s trade younguns and picks and max him so we can boo him.

In a perfect world, we're trading Randle and paying him $20m per year for 4 or 5.

no thats a phucked up world where we are stuck behind an undersized PG for 4-5 years. You can cry your Thibs tunes every night when he plays Brunson 40 minutes a night because he's a hard worker (true) and has a great attitude (true) and is a mentor for the kids (true) and Thibs loves and trusts him (true) and we get beat every year in round because he gets smothered by longer athletic guards

Perfect world? That's where IQ is the 2-way stud we have be waiting for

Why not have both a competent starting pg that can hit shots like Brunson AND a nice two way combo Guard like Quickly coming off the bench?

IQ might be a great player- I think he might be our most dynamic talent, but we will still need help at the PG position. Our plan next season can't be just go with IQ & Burks.

Also- adding Brunson does not turn us into a championship caliber team. But we do need to balance out the roster, we need help in the back court.

In a perfect world, we're landing a top 4 pick in this draft and turning our franchise round for the next 5-10 years.

If the plan is stick with IQ and Burks at pg expect no playoffs next season and Thibs probably fired by May 2023

Might be more than Thibs getting the can at that point.

Last year, we definitely overachieved, bubble world.

This year a step back, but we saw potential from some players, especially the young ones, and some holes in the roster, like PG. THAT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED THIS OFF SEASON!

Philc1 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

fishmike wrote:you see Brunson last night? Despite an "efficient" scoring game he was -16

After last year this is the concern. Last year in the playoffs despite shooting 46% from 3 Brunson was -9, -7, -19, -9, -10, +9 and -11 in 7 games and only played 16 minutes.

Lets see how he does against a backcourt that plays some D.

But let’s trade younguns and picks and max him so we can boo him.

In a perfect world, we're trading Randle and paying him $20m per year for 4 or 5.

no thats a phucked up world where we are stuck behind an undersized PG for 4-5 years. You can cry your Thibs tunes every night when he plays Brunson 40 minutes a night because he's a hard worker (true) and has a great attitude (true) and is a mentor for the kids (true) and Thibs loves and trusts him (true) and we get beat every year in round because he gets smothered by longer athletic guards

Perfect world? That's where IQ is the 2-way stud we have be waiting for

Why not have both a competent starting pg that can hit shots like Brunson AND a nice two way combo Guard like Quickly coming off the bench?

IQ might be a great player- I think he might be our most dynamic talent, but we will still need help at the PG position. Our plan next season can't be just go with IQ & Burks.

Also- adding Brunson does not turn us into a championship caliber team. But we do need to balance out the roster, we need help in the back court.

In a perfect world, we're landing a top 4 pick in this draft and turning our franchise round for the next 5-10 years.

If the plan is stick with IQ and Burks at pg expect no playoffs next season and Thibs probably fired by May 2023

Nalod wrote:Be super interesting to know what our FO/coaching staff think of IQ and OBI. We knnow year end stat stuffing occurs with bench playing but what is the real expectation/value of those two?

I'm guessing it is super high.

The end of year play may have validated to some degree the work that those guys put in, but the type of work ethic these guys have showed us (to the degree we can tell) is very high.

You can't ask for me. Outside of on court performance. This next year will be telling for both guys.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Be super interesting to know what our FO/coaching staff think of IQ and OBI. We knnow year end stat stuffing occurs with bench playing but what is the real expectation/value of those two?

I'm guessing it is super high.

The end of year play may have validated to some degree the work that those guys put in, but the type of work ethic these guys have showed us (to the degree we can tell) is very high.

You can't ask for me. Outside of on court performance. This next year will be telling for both guys.

There are many instances and im sorry I can't document them were fringe players put up big career game numbers in last few games of a season. Im not saying thats what happend but its not a high water mark to be a determined norm for them.
That said, I get the progress and I would like to see both stick. I would like to see Randle and OBI existing either in a small ball shift or with Randle at the 3 as "point forward".
At the same time we are prime for making deals to consolidate.
I'd love to make a run for ayton were we move Mitch and obviously other sweetners. Its why Im rooting for PHX to win a chip. Get it done then retool with long term goals and financial reality. Not to say it won't cost, it will.

For me, Randle is a ****ty passer and decision maker and I don't know why anyone would want him with the ball in his hands. He is a ball stopper, not a ball mover or passer. He is just a desperation passer, he does not really facilitate. When he is going downhill, defenses collapse, and then he jumps in the air and then he passes. Yeah yeah, there are times he makes some very nice passes. He gets a lot of TO's. Too many.

Thibs had some candid moments at the end of the year in his post game interview and I wish more could have seen them or more were posted. He told us why he didn't feel Obi and Randle would play much together: it had to do with the whole philosophy for the team. Knicks focus on D first and their whole team is conditioned around this for the most part. He wants to stop teams first and then do scoring after that. Bring in Obi and Randle at same time and you need to outscore teams, ie your whole plan changes. Plus, you now have 2 poor defensive player who need to make Center decisions when defending, a weakness for both. And then on offense, you need to switch one of the 2 guys to take on the role of what the Center usually does, that's like learning a new position.

Suggesting that Obi should just get minutes with Randle is a nice thought but not one that is really well thought out.