martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I want McBride and I cannot lie!

I agree with this. Adding to the cupboard only confuses Thibs. Randle, Obi, Quickly and a number one for Zion. Resign Mitch.

Zion
Cam
Mitch
RJ
McBride

Sims
Fournier
Rose
Burks
Thaj

McBride has shown zero signs of being a starting level PG. He can eventually pair nicely with IQ off the bench. We need a starting caliber Pg.

I'm in a different boat. McBride and IQ are a couple more years away from really being productive at their current positions as starters but I'm not shutting down that door. I'm hopeful IQ starts next year.

Where do you see IQ starting ? I ask because I was pushing to see him start at PG this season and I thought I remember you being adamant he wasn’t a PG. I was sort of convinced he wasn’t a PG either but still wanted to see it for a real sample size. I still think he’s ideal at 6th man but I wouldn’t rule it out in the future.

Starting at PG. I was never in the "IQ is not a PG" choir. I have been in the "IQ is not ready to start this year at PG" stance

Ok makes perfect sense. I loved his role with rose off the bench last year. Probably because we were winning. I guess we will see.

Remember just last year when trading for Rose was going to ruin IQ? lol

Oh yes I do!

Chandler wrote:Not seeing Brogdon mentioned. He might be available

also i can envision an SGA scenario given that they have Giddy and tons of picks. they can use help up front and might see moving SGA as maximizing value

also i've been reasonably happy with the team's drafting.

Who wouldn't like the next Ja Morant on their team, but we shouldn't be thinking we need that to win

If either SGA or Brogdon are actually available yes

Giddy is a stud. OKC is definitely going to be using SGA as trade bait.

We experienced these can be elite wings, 2’s, or the 1.
Who is playig the two or “wings”….RJ and Grimes? RJ and Reddish? We staying with Evan? One of them is being traded and its not RJ.

Grimes at the 2 with IQ spreads the floor for RJ and Randle. All 4 can score. I try to resign Mitch or start Norlens.
Evan, Reddish, Drose/Deuce, Obi, Simms

There is my 10. This won’t happen. We will draft and have trade(s) but this is my view for this moment. Norlens. Is not my long term answer but if mitcch walks one should assume he gets healthy and comes in proper shape this year. If Simms can take the minutes so much the better.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:IQ surging up the depth chart does change the narrative. Im just fuzzy to this “PG” thing. Great players who can handle the ball, penetrate, pull up and shoot, or pass off, manage pace. Match ups matter. Randle when right can blow by most 4’s. They put smaller guys on him but he takes them low. He is devistating when getting the ball down him and putting smaller guys helps that.
PG’s are guys you can’t stay in front of? Breaking down an offense. Spree, Kawhai, Kobe, Jordan, etc……….Wings that can do it. Surround them with Shooters.

We experienced these can be elite wings, 2’s, or the 1.
Who is playig the two or “wings”….RJ and Grimes? RJ and Reddish? We staying with Evan? One of them is being traded and its not RJ.

Grimes at the 2 with IQ spreads the floor for RJ and Randle. All 4 can score. I try to resign Mitch or start Norlens.
Evan, Reddish, Drose/Deuce, Obi, Simms

There is my 10. This won’t happen. We will draft and have trade(s) but this is my view for this moment. Norlens. Is not my long term answer but if mitcch walks one should assume he gets healthy and comes in proper shape this year. If Simms can take the minutes so much the better.

It's not just breaking down the offense. It's what they do after that. Randle isn't capable of doing anything past the simple read. And he makes those reads difficult with dumb jump passes and chaotic spin moves. RJ is getting there, but I'm not sure he'll ever become a consistent primary initiator. Quick has shown some flashes, but he needs consistency. Hopefully he steps up, but the offense needs someone other than Randle.

I Think Randle struggles to move the ball as his role has changed. RJ is 21, I can’t put a ceiling on what he can or cannot become. Randle Passing out of the paint has improved a lot.
Im really impressed with IQ’s play the last few weeks. The light went off in his head. I think Deuce can get there.

I think some of us are forgetting how good frank was on defense. He was VERY offensively tentative were Deuce Is not. We moved on.

gradyandrew wrote:I'm all in for Dame. I think Obi needs a new home where he can get more minutes. This doesn't like playing Obi with Randle. I think Cam Reddish has a higher ceiling as a back up to Randle and he's a better corner 3 guy. Going forward the guys I think will stay on the roster are: Randle RJ IQ Grimes Reddish Fournier Rose. Resigning Robinson and getting a starting caliber PG are the main priorities. Next year Knicks have 6 Picks. It's time to make a big move.

Dame is 31, expensive and coming off an injury. Only way I'd support that if Randle (and others) were going out in a trade for him. Much rather keep Mitch, Toppin and more picks vs Randle (who would actually probably thrive in Portland). Brunson is a better call as Dame really should go to a contending team and adding him here (even if we kept Randle) does not make us that.

But if the Knicks pursue Dame I hope it looks something like this...

Randle, Burks, Kemba and 2 #1 picks for Dame (+ filler)

gradyandrew wrote:I'm all in for Dame. I think Obi needs a new home where he can get more minutes. This doesn't like playing Obi with Randle. I think Cam Reddish has a higher ceiling as a back up to Randle and he's a better corner 3 guy. Going forward the guys I think will stay on the roster are: Randle RJ IQ Grimes Reddish Fournier Rose. Resigning Robinson and getting a starting caliber PG are the main priorities. Next year Knicks have 6 Picks. It's time to make a big move.

2 Things -

- What are you trading for Dame and how are you making it work under the salary cap (Dame is making $42.5M next year)
- How does Dame fit into Thib's scheme? While he would boost the offense, he does not appear to fit into Thib's defensive demands at PG.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I want McBride and I cannot lie!

I agree with this. Adding to the cupboard only confuses Thibs. Randle, Obi, Quickly and a number one for Zion. Resign Mitch.

Zion
Cam
Mitch
RJ
McBride

Sims
Fournier
Rose
Burks
Thaj

McBride has shown zero signs of being a starting level PG. He can eventually pair nicely with IQ off the bench. We need a starting caliber Pg.

I'm in a different boat. McBride and IQ are a couple more years away from really being productive at their current positions as starters but I'm not shutting down that door. I'm hopeful IQ starts next year.

If we were competing for a championship next season, then you are correct and I agree. Since the roster will not be championship ready, this is the best time to hand over the keys to the kids. I and Mcbride. Let them fail and learn while the FO is building up this team in other areas. If a solid PG option comes up sure. But what I don’t get is this hesitation to start IQ. I can understand McBride since he’s still learning. But why not? What are you and others afraid of? Please help me understand this logic on why it’s a bad idea to start IQ?

Or how is IQ not ready? Why put a time on it like thats automatically the time when everything is clicking. That development timing is different for everybody. I believe regardless is IQ is “ready”, this is the perfect time to start him next year.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I want McBride and I cannot lie!

I agree with this. Adding to the cupboard only confuses Thibs. Randle, Obi, Quickly and a number one for Zion. Resign Mitch.

Zion
Cam
Mitch
RJ
McBride

Sims
Fournier
Rose
Burks
Thaj

McBride has shown zero signs of being a starting level PG. He can eventually pair nicely with IQ off the bench. We need a starting caliber Pg.

I'm in a different boat. McBride and IQ are a couple more years away from really being productive at their current positions as starters but I'm not shutting down that door. I'm hopeful IQ starts next year.

If we were competing for a championship next season, then you are correct and I agree. Since the roster will not be championship ready, this is the best time to hand over the keys to the kids. I and Mcbride. Let them fail and learn while the FO is building up this team in other areas. If a solid PG option comes up sure. But what I don’t get is this hesitation to start IQ. I can understand McBride since he’s still learning. But why not? What are you and others afraid of? Please help me understand this logic on why it’s a bad idea to start IQ?

Or how is IQ not ready? Why put a time on it like thats automatically the time when everything is clicking. That development timing is different for everybody. I believe regardless is IQ is “ready”, this is the perfect time to start him next year.

Because you are not open or accepting that there are other things going on, it's just not a binary decision to either start or give 40 minutes to IQ or not do so.

Your point of view is very limited and you haven't been open to the fact that there are either things you can't see or understand. In fact, you won't even listen to them and yet you keep wondering why.

You have stated over and over and over again that Thibs is an idiot for not starting McBride over Burks because he is a POA defender and look at his GLeague stats, right? But now you understand McBride is still learning.

This is not a simple conversation and IMHO it doesn't seem to me that you or Clean are up for it quite frankly. You keep droning on about the same things and are left to wonder why some very high level coaches aren't just doing what you want.

Clearly you only see what knick fans are sayiny on this site, as long as they agree with your point. Because it’s not me and clean. It’s the entire knick media and podcast on multiple platforms. Trying other sites besides UK and u will see I’m not alone. Sounds like u are being short sited sir.

I said Deuce should be in the rotation and IQ should’ve started over Burks. Let’s make that point clear. I also said (since u love quoting me which is fine). If it was up to me I would’ve started deuce then and now, with IQ as the 6 man. That’s my quote but I’m not thibs. Thibs is also a great coach, if he has a FO that’s aligned. Where thibs is terrible is his lack of flexibility. That doesn’t mean hes trash. I personally feel thibs doesn’t match this roster or the FO. And in general I don’t give coaches as much credit as you do. Just to help u out with my quotes or stance for the future.

I love Burks and think he’s a keeper, just not at PG.

Give 40 mins to IQ is also very short sided on your end. Wanting thibs to keep IQ in the 4th quarter instead of pulling him for Burks is nothing close to what u are saying. That’s my issue with thibs. He’s very rigid by default. That’s good and bad. So again who’s being short sided???

Again, why is IQ 2 years from being ready? Can u answer that sir.

Also define ready?

Then tell me how Burks who never played PG is more ready than IQ who’s been groomed for this position since he was drafted a few years ago. He works with coaches on being a better playmaker all the time.

So please answer those questions. Because you quoting me hasn’t been a good look for you.

These wild statements that “thibs should start deuce or thibs should play IQ 40 mins” is crazy. What I said was thibs is very very very old school. So he’s not going to play IQ 40 mins. He’s not going to play grimes or deuce if it wasn’t for Covid. And Thibs rather have a tall PG like Elf to run his system. That’s thibs.

What I said is what I would do. And I’m not playing iq 40 mins. I might start deuce, but I’m definitely putting him in the rotation. These are all things I would do. Thibs is fine in the right situation. This is not that situation. He’s better at coaching a team like the lakers full of vets. Not a team where the rookies and sophomores are the best players but have the roster are high priced vets. He’s not good when given that type of roster.