Randle's an average 28 minute role player ..
Randle's playing-time minutes give him all-star stats ..
Randles offense performance are a C+ grade ..
Randle's defense performance are a C- grade ..
In the past two seasons coach Thibs Knicks are LOSERS without D.Rose leadership and decision-making in the 4th quarter ..

Here are each quarter of Randle's average minutes

First - 12 min
Second - 7 min
Third - 10 min
Fourth - 9 min
Total - 38 min which are 10 min to much.

Kemet wrote:Randle is overrated as a star player !!!
When u look at Randle's NBA career without a star player, he's a 30 win season player.

Randle's an average 28 minute role player ..
Randle's playing-time minutes give him all-star stats ..
Randles offense performance are a C+ grade ..
Randle's defense performance are a C- grade ..
In the past two seasons coach Thibs Knicks are LOSERS without D.Rose leadership and decision-making in the 4th quarter ..

Here are each quarter of Randle's average minutes

First - 12 min
Second - 7 min
Third - 10 min
Fourth - 9 min
Total - 38 min which are 10 min to much.

This post is just inflammatory and not based in fact, just opinion.

Randle's defense is actually ridiculously good. As a PF, often tasked with working in the paint where FG% often exceed 50%, his opposing FG% is 42% - best in the Knicks starting lineup and top 10 of starters in the league. What is your issue with his defense and don't say blocks. Blocks doesn't mean defense. There is so much more to it.

His offense needs to be refined but he has a rare set of tools, when they were working (e.g. last year). Not many guys can get 20 points, 10 rebs, 5 assists, 40% from 3 and 80% from FT. That's the guy I am looking for, despite the down year.

This year, his percentages are down - 30% from 3 and 76% from the line. That's a problem he needs to sort out to get back to All NBA status. But we know he has the ability to shoot 40% from 3. Just needs to buckle down and earn those shots again. As that 3 escapes him, he has been getting to the line a lot more.

My grades?

B+ Offense
A Defense.

I don't think he is the center of a heliocentric offense, but he wants to be here, I want that man on my squad.

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Kemet wrote:Randle is overrated as a star player !!!
When u look at Randle's NBA career without a star player, he's a 30 win season player.

Randle's an average 28 minute role player ..
Randle's playing-time minutes give him all-star stats ..
Randles offense performance are a C+ grade ..
Randle's defense performance are a C- grade ..
In the past two seasons coach Thibs Knicks are LOSERS without D.Rose leadership and decision-making in the 4th quarter ..

Here are each quarter of Randle's average minutes

First - 12 min
Second - 7 min
Third - 10 min
Fourth - 9 min
Total - 38 min which are 10 min to much.

This post is just inflammatory and not based in fact, just opinion.

Randle's defense is actually ridiculously good. As a PF, often tasked with working in the paint where FG% often exceed 50%, his opposing FG% is 42% - best in the Knicks starting lineup and top 10 of starters in the league. What is your issue with his defense and don't say blocks. Blocks doesn't mean defense. There is so much more to it.

His offense needs to be refined but he has a rare set of tools, when they were working (e.g. last year). Not many guys can get 20 points, 10 rebs, 5 assists, 40% from 3 and 80% from FT. That's the guy I am looking for, despite the down year.

This year, his percentages are down - 30% from 3 and 76% from the line. That's a problem he needs to sort out to get back to All NBA status. But we know he has the ability to shoot 40% from 3. Just needs to buckle down and earn those shots again. As that 3 escapes him, he has been getting to the line a lot more.

My grades?

B+ Offense
A Defense.

I don't think he is the center of a heliocentric offense, but he wants to be here, I want that man on my squad.

There is a lot of video footage of Randle not actually paying attention on defense. Imagine what his opposing FG% would be if he tried 90% of the time.

I haven’t seen much of that, though I definitely saw him being a bit slow prior to the trade deadline. Watching a number of game (probably only saw 20-30 this year), he is generally engaged and active (and effective).

The Knicks generally were failing pretty miserably in their rotations the entire first half of the season, I think some of those defensive collapses are demoralizing.

His contract makes him a focal point of discussion, but that man is earning out every penny. Overall, his defense is very good - more than the hate posts will grant him.

Contrast that with the last game with Randle in Utah:
5 (almost 6) players scored in double figures (not terrible!)
37% shooting (terrible!)
20 assists (way less movement)
37 RB (similar)

We can't underestimate the impact of mood/joy on the court. Randle casting a big gloom over the rest of the team, and like with Melo (whom I never liked either), the ball stopping is a killer for the flow of the team. This pains me to say because I was so thrilled about him last year.

jrodmc wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Kemet wrote:Randle is overrated as a star player !!!
When u look at Randle's NBA career without a star player, he's a 30 win season player.

Randle's an average 28 minute role player ..
Randle's playing-time minutes give him all-star stats ..
Randles offense performance are a C+ grade ..
Randle's defense performance are a C- grade ..
In the past two seasons coach Thibs Knicks are LOSERS without D.Rose leadership and decision-making in the 4th quarter ..

Here are each quarter of Randle's average minutes

First - 12 min
Second - 7 min
Third - 10 min
Fourth - 9 min
Total - 38 min which are 10 min to much.

This post is just inflammatory and not based in fact, just opinion.

Randle's defense is actually ridiculously good. As a PF, often tasked with working in the paint where FG% often exceed 50%, his opposing FG% is 42% - best in the Knicks starting lineup and top 10 of starters in the league. What is your issue with his defense and don't say blocks. Blocks doesn't mean defense. There is so much more to it.

His offense needs to be refined but he has a rare set of tools, when they were working (e.g. last year). Not many guys can get 20 points, 10 rebs, 5 assists, 40% from 3 and 80% from FT. That's the guy I am looking for, despite the down year.

This year, his percentages are down - 30% from 3 and 76% from the line. That's a problem he needs to sort out to get back to All NBA status. But we know he has the ability to shoot 40% from 3. Just needs to buckle down and earn those shots again. As that 3 escapes him, he has been getting to the line a lot more.

My grades?

B+ Offense
A Defense.

I don't think he is the center of a heliocentric offense, but he wants to be here, I want that man on my squad.

There is a lot of video footage of Randle not actually paying attention on defense. Imagine what his opposing FG% would be if he tried 90% of the time.

I haven’t seen much of that, though I definitely saw him being a bit slow prior to the trade deadline. Watching a number of game (probably only saw 20-30 this year), he is generally engaged and active (and effective).

The Knicks generally were failing pretty miserably in their rotations the entire first half of the season, I think some of those defensive collapses are demoralizing.

His contract makes him a focal point of discussion, but that man is earning out every penny. Overall, his defense is very good - more than the hate posts will grant him.

+1
Holy **** Batman. An actually positive Randle review!

Cue the "but he doesn't look engaged in the team huddles!" posts.

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Kemet wrote:Randle is overrated as a star player !!!
When u look at Randle's NBA career without a star player, he's a 30 win season player.

Randle's an average 28 minute role player ..
Randle's playing-time minutes give him all-star stats ..
Randles offense performance are a C+ grade ..
Randle's defense performance are a C- grade ..
In the past two seasons coach Thibs Knicks are LOSERS without D.Rose leadership and decision-making in the 4th quarter ..

Here are each quarter of Randle's average minutes

First - 12 min
Second - 7 min
Third - 10 min
Fourth - 9 min
Total - 38 min which are 10 min to much.

This post is just inflammatory and not based in fact, just opinion.

Randle's defense is actually ridiculously good. As a PF, often tasked with working in the paint where FG% often exceed 50%, his opposing FG% is 42% - best in the Knicks starting lineup and top 10 of starters in the league. What is your issue with his defense and don't say blocks. Blocks doesn't mean defense. There is so much more to it.

His offense needs to be refined but he has a rare set of tools, when they were working (e.g. last year). Not many guys can get 20 points, 10 rebs, 5 assists, 40% from 3 and 80% from FT. That's the guy I am looking for, despite the down year.

This year, his percentages are down - 30% from 3 and 76% from the line. That's a problem he needs to sort out to get back to All NBA status. But we know he has the ability to shoot 40% from 3. Just needs to buckle down and earn those shots again. As that 3 escapes him, he has been getting to the line a lot more.

My grades?

B+ Offense
A Defense.

I don't think he is the center of a heliocentric offense, but he wants to be here, I want that man on my squad.

There is a lot of video footage of Randle not actually paying attention on defense. Imagine what his opposing FG% would be if he tried 90% of the time.

I haven’t seen much of that, though I definitely saw him being a bit slow prior to the trade deadline. Watching a number of game (probably only saw 20-30 this year), he is generally engaged and active (and effective).

The Knicks generally were failing pretty miserably in their rotations the entire first half of the season, I think some of those defensive collapses are demoralizing.

His contract makes him a focal point of discussion, but that man is earning out every penny. Overall, his defense is very good - more than the hate posts will grant him.

+1
Holy **** Batman. An actually positive Randle review!

Cue the "but he doesn't look engaged in the team huddles!" posts.

That 42% is for defended field goals. Overall, the number is 47% which speaks to the fact that he's not always engaged. Eff team huddles, there are numerous times that Randle wasn't engaged on the court.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1&CF=GP*GE*40:D_FGA*GE*9&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Are you prepared to use that same argument about Rudy Gobert at 48%? I sorted this by split between Defended FG% vs ordinary FG% for his opponents for players appearing in 40+ games and 9+ defended attempts. You can look at players with good spreads. This doesn't mean that he isn't "engaged" any more than Gobert is off looking at flowers in the middle of a game.

My point is that he is very good at defense.

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Kemet wrote:Randle is overrated as a star player !!!
When u look at Randle's NBA career without a star player, he's a 30 win season player.

Randle's an average 28 minute role player ..
Randle's playing-time minutes give him all-star stats ..
Randles offense performance are a C+ grade ..
Randle's defense performance are a C- grade ..
In the past two seasons coach Thibs Knicks are LOSERS without D.Rose leadership and decision-making in the 4th quarter ..

Here are each quarter of Randle's average minutes

First - 12 min
Second - 7 min
Third - 10 min
Fourth - 9 min
Total - 38 min which are 10 min to much.

This post is just inflammatory and not based in fact, just opinion.

Randle's defense is actually ridiculously good. As a PF, often tasked with working in the paint where FG% often exceed 50%, his opposing FG% is 42% - best in the Knicks starting lineup and top 10 of starters in the league. What is your issue with his defense and don't say blocks. Blocks doesn't mean defense. There is so much more to it.

His offense needs to be refined but he has a rare set of tools, when they were working (e.g. last year). Not many guys can get 20 points, 10 rebs, 5 assists, 40% from 3 and 80% from FT. That's the guy I am looking for, despite the down year.

This year, his percentages are down - 30% from 3 and 76% from the line. That's a problem he needs to sort out to get back to All NBA status. But we know he has the ability to shoot 40% from 3. Just needs to buckle down and earn those shots again. As that 3 escapes him, he has been getting to the line a lot more.

My grades?

B+ Offense
A Defense.

I don't think he is the center of a heliocentric offense, but he wants to be here, I want that man on my squad.

There is a lot of video footage of Randle not actually paying attention on defense. Imagine what his opposing FG% would be if he tried 90% of the time.

I haven’t seen much of that, though I definitely saw him being a bit slow prior to the trade deadline. Watching a number of game (probably only saw 20-30 this year), he is generally engaged and active (and effective).

The Knicks generally were failing pretty miserably in their rotations the entire first half of the season, I think some of those defensive collapses are demoralizing.

His contract makes him a focal point of discussion, but that man is earning out every penny. Overall, his defense is very good - more than the hate posts will grant him.

+1
Holy **** Batman. An actually positive Randle review!

Cue the "but he doesn't look engaged in the team huddles!" posts.

That 42% is for defended field goals. Overall, the number is 47% which speaks to the fact that he's not always engaged. Eff team huddles, there are numerous times that Randle wasn't engaged on the court.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1&CF=GP*GE*40:D_FGA*GE*9&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Are you prepared to use that same argument about Rudy Gobert at 48%? I sorted this by split between Defended FG% vs ordinary FG% for his opponents for players appearing in 40+ games and 9+ defended attempts. You can look at players with good spreads. This doesn't mean that he isn't "engaged" any more than Gobert is off looking at flowers in the middle of a game.

My point is that he is very good at defense.

The difference is we have all seen him take plenty of plays off. The eye test is very clear on this. I don't think anyone hear will say Randle is a very good defensive player. I'll even admit Randle was solid last year, especially on switches and the perimeter. Those spurts haven't been as consistent this year.And got all the talk of him possibly bouncing back next season, the truth is he's been playing closer to his career levels this year than last year. Last season is an aberration until proven otherwise.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Kemet wrote:Randle is overrated as a star player !!!
When u look at Randle's NBA career without a star player, he's a 30 win season player.

Randle's an average 28 minute role player ..
Randle's playing-time minutes give him all-star stats ..
Randles offense performance are a C+ grade ..
Randle's defense performance are a C- grade ..
In the past two seasons coach Thibs Knicks are LOSERS without D.Rose leadership and decision-making in the 4th quarter ..

Here are each quarter of Randle's average minutes

First - 12 min
Second - 7 min
Third - 10 min
Fourth - 9 min
Total - 38 min which are 10 min to much.

This post is just inflammatory and not based in fact, just opinion.

Randle's defense is actually ridiculously good. As a PF, often tasked with working in the paint where FG% often exceed 50%, his opposing FG% is 42% - best in the Knicks starting lineup and top 10 of starters in the league. What is your issue with his defense and don't say blocks. Blocks doesn't mean defense. There is so much more to it.

His offense needs to be refined but he has a rare set of tools, when they were working (e.g. last year). Not many guys can get 20 points, 10 rebs, 5 assists, 40% from 3 and 80% from FT. That's the guy I am looking for, despite the down year.

This year, his percentages are down - 30% from 3 and 76% from the line. That's a problem he needs to sort out to get back to All NBA status. But we know he has the ability to shoot 40% from 3. Just needs to buckle down and earn those shots again. As that 3 escapes him, he has been getting to the line a lot more.

My grades?

B+ Offense
A Defense.

I don't think he is the center of a heliocentric offense, but he wants to be here, I want that man on my squad.

There is a lot of video footage of Randle not actually paying attention on defense. Imagine what his opposing FG% would be if he tried 90% of the time.

I haven’t seen much of that, though I definitely saw him being a bit slow prior to the trade deadline. Watching a number of game (probably only saw 20-30 this year), he is generally engaged and active (and effective).

The Knicks generally were failing pretty miserably in their rotations the entire first half of the season, I think some of those defensive collapses are demoralizing.

His contract makes him a focal point of discussion, but that man is earning out every penny. Overall, his defense is very good - more than the hate posts will grant him.

+1
Holy **** Batman. An actually positive Randle review!

Cue the "but he doesn't look engaged in the team huddles!" posts.

That 42% is for defended field goals. Overall, the number is 47% which speaks to the fact that he's not always engaged. Eff team huddles, there are numerous times that Randle wasn't engaged on the court.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1&CF=GP*GE*40:D_FGA*GE*9&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

Are you prepared to use that same argument about Rudy Gobert at 48%? I sorted this by split between Defended FG% vs ordinary FG% for his opponents for players appearing in 40+ games and 9+ defended attempts. You can look at players with good spreads. This doesn't mean that he isn't "engaged" any more than Gobert is off looking at flowers in the middle of a game.

My point is that he is very good at defense.

The difference is we have all seen him take plenty of plays off. The eye test is very clear on this. I don't think anyone hear will say Randle is a very good defensive player. I'll even admit Randle was solid last year, especially on switches and the perimeter. Those spurts haven't been as consistent this year.And got all the talk of him possibly bouncing back next season, the truth is he's been playing closer to his career levels this year than last year. Last season is an aberration until proven otherwise.

I’m saying he is a very good defensive player. I don’t really see this “taking plays off” thing you are claiming. I acknowledge early on the team had really broken rotations that looked like people, not just Randle, weren’t finishing plays. I dunno, I think he is frustrated but he has every right to be.

He is a player though and I see a guy that is bodying people in the paint and playing very solid defense. Statistics say he is good on defense.

jskinny35 wrote:I don't care what statistics you show - at best he's an average/passable defensive player. He does have the tools and at times - the focus. Unfortunately there have been too many times we all see him loafing, not hustling, arguing with officials, etc... So at best he is an inconsistent defensive player with non-sustaining effort. I don't ever recall him locking any of the better players up. Team-wise - the fact that he doesn't show consistent effort is an issue. It's okay to get beat or play poorly - but it's no bueno to be recorded loafing on multiple occasions.

I have soured on him, I don't think he is a winning player.

Nalod wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I don't care what statistics you show - at best he's an average/passable defensive player. He does have the tools and at times - the focus. Unfortunately there have been too many times we all see him loafing, not hustling, arguing with officials, etc... So at best he is an inconsistent defensive player with non-sustaining effort. I don't ever recall him locking any of the better players up. Team-wise - the fact that he doesn't show consistent effort is an issue. It's okay to get beat or play poorly - but it's no bueno to be recorded loafing on multiple occasions.

And at 21mm this year, 23mm next year this is what you get. You get a player with emotions who had a few bad spots and they are etched in our minds. He has room to imporove his demeanor. That I won’t argue.
Last year all NBA Randle was the ceiling and he set the bar high. But he is not paid like that.
You won’t get a better player in return for him. That player will be flawed unless we draft a stud and he is “the man”.

He is paid like the 2nd or 3rd option. RJ is growing before us, now we need more condensed talent.
We are prime for a trade and perhaps a PG that can solve our chemistry issues.
Changing out Randle for an unknown is change but migth not be improvement. OBI needs the outside shot to hit. Then he can step up.

A bit of a correction. Although he will likely only get $23M next year, he counts as $26M due to likely bonuses (which seem more and more unlikely the longer I watch him play). So the cap hit will average out to about $29M over the course of the deal.

martin wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:I don't care what statistics you show - at best he's an average/passable defensive player. He does have the tools and at times - the focus. Unfortunately there have been too many times we all see him loafing, not hustling, arguing with officials, etc... So at best he is an inconsistent defensive player with non-sustaining effort. I don't ever recall him locking any of the better players up. Team-wise - the fact that he doesn't show consistent effort is an issue. It's okay to get beat or play poorly - but it's no bueno to be recorded loafing on multiple occasions.

And at 21mm this year, 23mm next year this is what you get. You get a player with emotions who had a few bad spots and they are etched in our minds. He has room to imporove his demeanor. That I won’t argue.
Last year all NBA Randle was the ceiling and he set the bar high. But he is not paid like that.
You won’t get a better player in return for him. That player will be flawed unless we draft a stud and he is “the man”.

He is paid like the 2nd or 3rd option. RJ is growing before us, now we need more condensed talent.
We are prime for a trade and perhaps a PG that can solve our chemistry issues.
Changing out Randle for an unknown is change but migth not be improvement. OBI needs the outside shot to hit. Then he can step up.

A bit of a correction. Although he will likely only get $23M next year, he counts as $26M due to likely bonuses (which seem more and more unlikely the longer I watch him play). So the cap hit will average out to about $29M over the course of the deal.

This is not correct. Every year they reassess if player bonuses are likely or not and they adjust the cap numbers. I don't have the link handy cut Larry Coon and his cap insights note this.

They adjust the cap numbers after the fact, but my understanding is that the number still carries over the next year. Even if it is an unlikely bonus, I thought the team must have the cap figure for the following year must take into account the possibility the player hits those benchmarks.