martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every time I read these arguments against Lillard, I have flash backs to how we wouldn’t want Chris Paul or Kevin Durant. Remember Chris Paul’s meniscus or Durant’s foot graft? Or Chris Paul’s age. I think this board is relatively conservative when it comes to injuries. I’ve been skittish since we traded Nene and Camby for McDyess.

Love or hate Lillard, the guy is a talent in this league. If guys are playing until they are 40, he isn’t old. If they break down at 33 he is. Never love love breaking the entire roster for one player. My question is if you are grabbing Lillard, who else are you getting to come with? Lill RJ and JR don’t get it done in this league.

Thing is, Superteams right now have what I’ll call a maturation period. 1st step, acquire 2 top 10 players and a 3rd all star. No bench except for vet min former stars. Then, add exception players until you are about to hard cap. Keep filling in blanks with 2nd rd picks you can buy or g league players that are hot. Maybe steal an international player who used to play in the NBA but couldn’t cut it earlier in their career. It takes a year or two or three. But once they mature, you are looking at a Nets team with Durant, Irving, Simmons, Aldridge, Drummond… and they add more exception players this offseason. You don’t just make one trade for a star player and compete with that. Or GSW (who has also had a leprechaun’s luck in the draft) and about to get bailed out by the NBA by expansion).

My dream scenario (of this exact moment in time) is Donovan Mitchell (remaining at PG) and forcing his way out of Utah (why?)) and KAT out of Minnesota (why?). Still think that pair needs more ammo to finish a playoff series. Need something more to go with those two. But that group still needs a few years to grow (as would our core, though we lack the “star” that we hope and pray Barrett can become.

Because the above seems more like a video game move, I actually want to see Barrett and Randle continue working on their chemistry. I’m not in love with the rest of the roster (though I really do love Robinson), I still think we need to add a 3&D PG and SF. We aren’t one player away from a championship. We are one or more players away from starting the maturation process.

Until then, we are actually stuck in the NBA doldrums. We need a little luck more than we need one superstar. But if you can pull off 2 or 3, I’m in.

It all comes down to what cost. If you are just giving up Rubio and a future 1st ala Phoenix, sure. Trades that are bigger than that come with big warning signs like Brooklyn had when trading for Paul Pierce and company.

I can agree with this. Cost is the first question.

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:yes for the play, no for the cost. Not at 32. He's not worth a bunch of picks and players. Yes for Burks/Fournier/Noel/Kemba and maybe a pick with protection. 32 years old making $40mm+ a year. The only way it helps us is if we send them those guys above and modest draft comp.

He's a fine opportunity but a terrible investment. This is not a guy you spend assets on at this point

Including Kemba and Noel in a trade. For anyone or anything. That's funny. It's supposed to be funny, right? Are you still super high?

And to your second point, why would we be giving up any 1st round picks to take on a salary dump of that size?

If Dame couldn't save Portland with McCullom next to him, how or why is he saving us? Other than an old Screamin Stevie Smith factoid about how Dame wants to be the main wheel at MSG (and his camp doesn't), does he even really want to come here? And exactly who is Dame recruiting to come here if the trade gets done? Melo? Just asking. Because you know I had to.

its called a salary dump. That happens quite a bit. The reason you dont give up much is because like Melo he's a 1 way scorer who can get hot and win games but that not title material so there really isnt a point. Would I use a salary dump and an FRP to add Dame? Sure. Would I add picks and young players? No thanks.

The way I remember salary dumps, it's the team with the unwanted contract that GIVES a first rounder for the other team to TAKE the salary dump. Like how the Lakers had to send an FRP or two with Lin to get rid of him. I'm not sure who you think is dumping salary in your trade scenario. You honestly think Portland wants to dump Dame's $40mm/yr so we can dump Fournier and Noel's and Kemba's salaries on them?

That sounds more like trading dumps.

I understand the relative value of Dame compared to what we would be sending them. I just don't know in what world Portland would be taking back a contract like Fournier's, and why we would be expected to send picks to Portland for Dame's contract.

Would prefer going after guys like Mitchell, Murray or Alexander if we are going to dream about a savior. Although they would not meet the "not giving up young assets" criteria listed above. Think we just stick to the plan. Keep drafting solid players (Although this is not a great draft class) and wait for the player that makes sense in terms of time line, age and cap space requirement. Still think we are a decent PG away from the playoffs.

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:yes for the play, no for the cost. Not at 32. He's not worth a bunch of picks and players. Yes for Burks/Fournier/Noel/Kemba and maybe a pick with protection. 32 years old making $40mm+ a year. The only way it helps us is if we send them those guys above and modest draft comp.

He's a fine opportunity but a terrible investment. This is not a guy you spend assets on at this point

Including Kemba and Noel in a trade. For anyone or anything. That's funny. It's supposed to be funny, right? Are you still super high?

And to your second point, why would we be giving up any 1st round picks to take on a salary dump of that size?

If Dame couldn't save Portland with McCullom next to him, how or why is he saving us? Other than an old Screamin Stevie Smith factoid about how Dame wants to be the main wheel at MSG (and his camp doesn't), does he even really want to come here? And exactly who is Dame recruiting to come here if the trade gets done? Melo? Just asking. Because you know I had to.

its called a salary dump. That happens quite a bit. The reason you dont give up much is because like Melo he's a 1 way scorer who can get hot and win games but that not title material so there really isnt a point. Would I use a salary dump and an FRP to add Dame? Sure. Would I add picks and young players? No thanks.

So you're okay sending one FRP for Dame's contract, but nothing more. Okay.

The way I remember salary dumps, it's the team with the unwanted contract that GIVES a first rounder for the other team to TAKE the salary dump. Like how the Lakers had to send an FRP or two with Lin to get rid of him. I'm not sure who you think is dumping salary in your trade scenario. You honestly think Portland wants to dump Dame's $40mm/yr so we can dump Fournier and Noel's and Kemba's salaries on them?

That sounds more like trading dumps.

I understand the relative value of Dame compared to what we would be sending them. I just don't know in what world Portland would be taking back a contract like Fournier's, and why we would be expected to send picks to Portland for Dame's contract.

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:yes for the play, no for the cost. Not at 32. He's not worth a bunch of picks and players. Yes for Burks/Fournier/Noel/Kemba and maybe a pick with protection. 32 years old making $40mm+ a year. The only way it helps us is if we send them those guys above and modest draft comp.

He's a fine opportunity but a terrible investment. This is not a guy you spend assets on at this point

Including Kemba and Noel in a trade. For anyone or anything. That's funny. It's supposed to be funny, right? Are you still super high?

And to your second point, why would we be giving up any 1st round picks to take on a salary dump of that size?

If Dame couldn't save Portland with McCullom next to him, how or why is he saving us? Other than an old Screamin Stevie Smith factoid about how Dame wants to be the main wheel at MSG (and his camp doesn't), does he even really want to come here? And exactly who is Dame recruiting to come here if the trade gets done? Melo? Just asking. Because you know I had to.

its called a salary dump. That happens quite a bit. The reason you dont give up much is because like Melo he's a 1 way scorer who can get hot and win games but that not title material so there really isnt a point. Would I use a salary dump and an FRP to add Dame? Sure. Would I add picks and young players? No thanks.

So you're okay sending one FRP for Dame's contract, but nothing more. Okay.

The way I remember salary dumps, it's the team with the unwanted contract that GIVES a first rounder for the other team to TAKE the salary dump. Like how the Lakers had to send an FRP or two with Lin to get rid of him. I'm not sure who you think is dumping salary in your trade scenario. You honestly think Portland wants to dump Dame's $40mm/yr so we can dump Fournier and Noel's and Kemba's salaries on them?

That sounds more like trading dumps.

I understand the relative value of Dame compared to what we would be sending them. I just don't know in what world Portland would be taking back a contract like Fournier's, and why we would be expected to send picks to Portland for Dame's contract.

same world that Melo helps his teams win.... like maybe it happens but its so impossibly hard to quantify its not worth talking about

1 Melo + a few quality vets + 1 non-"personality" coach - 1 ridiculous contract =

And worth of talking about is a pretty relative theoretical term given the **** that flies around here...

franco12 wrote:How is Dame any different from Kemba or D Rose? Or is he like Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler or DeRozan?

He’s basically a healthier Kemba at this point. If the blazers were willing to give him up to us for nothing but Fournier and Rose to match contracts I’d say yes but they aren’t doing that

This is why Burkes at “PG” does not freak me out. Im not saying I love him there. He is not the long term solution there I get.
As for Dame, Im ok with him coming but the Messianic complex we assign to these guys as fans is over the top at times.

That CP3 on PHX does is not relevant. CP3 also breaks down most years in the playoffs. He early made it last season. Lowrey looked like he was 35 for the last 10 years. Different type player.

I rooting for Dinwiddie big time to tilt Dallas away from Brunson and gives us a chance to work a sign and trade. I like Dame but Im not ready to give up on Randle and RJ is untouchable in my book. same for donovan Mitchell (No RJ on the Table for that trade).

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:Brunson's minutes and shots have been unaffected by Dinwiddie coming on board over the past 10 games. After finally finding a winning formula I don't see Dallas looking for a sign and trade. Cuban is savvy enough to realize the only way to keep Luca happy long term is to win games. They scored a big win so far with the KP trade- I don't see any reasonable deal the Knicks could make. Dallas rightly starts with RJ as the price.

I agree with you that perhaps Dallas has found a better type of rotation to fit around Doncic with all of their wing players. The one thing that's got to be in the back of their mind: With Luca, how many other wings do you need? Next year would be Brunson (if retained), THJr, Dinwiddie, Bertans, Bullock, Josh Green. That's a lot of guys in the 1-3 positions to all be paying $ towards and they would be thin up front.

Got to move someone for a big.

Good points. Randle? Robinson? Noel? Toppin? I don't see a deal for any of those guys working for both teams. Hardaway JR for Richaun Holmes (no longer starting) and Jeremy Lamb seems like a more sensible deal for all involved

3. Damian Lillard, Trail Blazers

You already know what time it is. As Allen Iverson put it, Lillard is a "certified killer." He has consistently been one of the NBA's most dangerous scorers, one capable of hitting shots from anywhere on the floor. He rises to the occasion when the game is on the line, as he led the league in clutch points last season while shooting 51.1 percent from the field and 39.1 percent from beyond the arc in clutch time.

cmon philc- he's no Kemba.

gradyandrew wrote:

First round

2022: Own

2023: Own; Has Dallas (if 11-30)

2024: Own

2025: Own

2026: Own

2027: Own

2028: Own

Second round

2022: Own; Has Charlotte (if 56-60)

2023: Own; Has Detroit; Has Utah; Least favorable of OKC, Washington and more favorable of Dallas and Miami

2024: Own; More favorable of Utah and Cleveland (via UTH swap for CLE); Has Detroit; Has Miami (if 56-60)

2025: Own; Has Brooklyn; Has Dallas if Dallas does not convey 1st round pick to New York in 2023, 2024 or 2025; Has Miami (if 56-60)

2026: Own; Has Minnesota

2027: Own

2028: Own

The big question for me is if LeBron will lean on Adam Silver to make 2023 the "double draft" ie change the rules so so High school graduates can be directly drafted. The Knicks have a whopping 6 picks next year. I'm sure all of those teams who traded them to the Knicks will be queasy about voting for the change. I'm sure to some extent LeBron feels like the League owes him this- there's a reason franchise values have quadrupled since he entered the league.

The Knicks can't use six picks. Those 4 second rounders essentially become late 1st value in a double draft. If we do get a double draft Knicks could send out this year's first, next year's Dallas pick and two 2023 first rounders along with Noel, Burks, Kemba, and Obi. I don't think Obi gets a good second contract playing 10 minutes a game behind Randle.

That deal shaves 7 million off of next years salary for Portland. Those savings, letting Nurkic go, and a Bledsoe buy out (only 3 million guaranteed). Would give Portland a clean cap going into 2023. If you can't buy a contender, your second best choice is lots of picks and space to build a team in your own image. A super crappy team is also easier to move.

Lots of moving parts here-

Portland City Commissioner Nick Fish said on Thursday that he expects the city’s NBA team to be sold in the wake of owner Paul Allen’s death last year. … The Trail Blazers’ lease with the city of Portland runs through 2025. It includes iron-clad language that would ensure the team stays through at least 2023.

but I think there's enough for us to be hopeful.

6 picks. I didn't even realize this. Good stuff gradyandrew