martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:So much offensive space available to them. Played well on d as well.

Why I've been advocating for Myles Turner. A center that can hit an open 3 would open up this offense so much. Even when they play Taj at center the offense looks better because he can hit a jump shot. Turner isn't perfect but he does provide the rim protection that Thibs wants. Problem is Turner has injury problems and Thibs would play him 36 minutes a night until his knees gave out. Maybe Mo Bamba could be had at a reasonable rate

Yes I have been pushing for Turner or Bamba for the same reasons. Obviously Mitch has been great, but Turner would open up space for Barrett and Randle, if the plan is to continue to build around them.

except Barrent and Randle doont have a spacing problem. The problem isnt Mitch. Its Randle and RJ. "Spacing" is NOT why Randle shot 41% from 3 last year and 30% this year. Please quantify that before we stick **** players at center like Turner and wonder why the spacing isnt working

3pt shooting isn’t the concern here. If we have a center that can make threes than Randle spends more time close to the basket and won’t see as many double teams. If you want to stick with Mitch, fine, he’s a good player. But Randle will continue to take tough threes and long range twos because mitch’s defender is hedging towards him and living with the handful of Mitch offensive rebounds per game. It can absolutely still work, but Randle and Barrett will have to live with tougher shots. Replace Mitch with Turner or Bamba and the lane is open for Barrett and Randle with no help defender nearby.

Mitch's defender is out near the 3point line or just under hedging towards Randle? I don't see that.

Mitch spends a lot of time typically in the PnR or dunkers spot. Randle has a ton of wide open 3's and just misses or hesitates while open, jukes and dribbles for a while and then takes a step back or contested 3. This has nothing to do with Mitch.

EVERY team would benefit from a stretch center but there only so many guys out there who do that while defending at a high level.

There are like 5 or so of those guys in the league?

its all good. I want a Center in crunch time can hit a FT at better than 54% and at least looks like he gives a **** doing it.
I like Mitch. 12-15 mil tops. I get we are not playoff bound but if we ever are he is a liablity. Only saving grace is nobody ever passes to him in crunch time.

Turner killed us one game and he is a god now to some. Bamba is a 4 year player restricted unlesss they don’t tender a 10mil qualifying offer. Seems logical they would. He is playing more this year, avg 10pts, and 34% from three avg about 3 attempts there.

Can’t say what magic do but would I rather pay him 15mm than Mitch? oh, he is from NYC. Of course we do. LOL.
Perfect world is we can conjure a Sign and trade for mitch to dallas. Might take more than Mitch though. Dallas can have its pick back which really helps there cap. Can a clean sign and trade even happen with mitch? Not sure.
Can anyone clarify this?

I don’t see Magic let Bamba just walk away without compensation unless he has no value. If so, there is more to this.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:So much offensive space available to them. Played well on d as well.

Why I've been advocating for Myles Turner. A center that can hit an open 3 would open up this offense so much. Even when they play Taj at center the offense looks better because he can hit a jump shot. Turner isn't perfect but he does provide the rim protection that Thibs wants. Problem is Turner has injury problems and Thibs would play him 36 minutes a night until his knees gave out. Maybe Mo Bamba could be had at a reasonable rate

Yes I have been pushing for Turner or Bamba for the same reasons. Obviously Mitch has been great, but Turner would open up space for Barrett and Randle, if the plan is to continue to build around them.

except Barrent and Randle doont have a spacing problem. The problem isnt Mitch. Its Randle and RJ. "Spacing" is NOT why Randle shot 41% from 3 last year and 30% this year. Please quantify that before we stick **** players at center like Turner and wonder why the spacing isnt working

3pt shooting isn’t the concern here. If we have a center that can make threes than Randle spends more time close to the basket and won’t see as many double teams. If you want to stick with Mitch, fine, he’s a good player. But Randle will continue to take tough threes and long range twos because mitch’s defender is hedging towards him and living with the handful of Mitch offensive rebounds per game. It can absolutely still work, but Randle and Barrett will have to live with tougher shots. Replace Mitch with Turner or Bamba and the lane is open for Barrett and Randle with no help defender nearby.

Mitch's defender is out near the 3point line or just under hedging towards Randle? I don't see that.

Mitch spends a lot of time typically in the PnR or dunkers spot. Randle has a ton of wide open 3's and just misses or hesitates while open, jukes and dribbles for a while and then takes a step back or contested 3. This has nothing to do with Mitch.

EVERY team would benefit from a stretch center but there only so many guys out there who do that while defending at a high level.

There are like 5 or so of those guys in the league?

Mitch’s defender spends a lot of time hedging to Randle so it prevents him from attacking the basket one on one. A good portion of Randle settling for mid range shots is the concern for that help defender. Obviously not all the time. But if you watch it closely you can see it’s a factor. I am not opposed to resigning Mitch. There’s pros and cons to keeping him or replacing him. But the primary con to keeping him is his presence doesn’t make life easiest for Randle and Barrett. It comes down to him being dominant enough at what he does to make up for that. Part of me just wants to see this same team with a real PG. either a star like D Mitchell or SGA, or a high end role player like Brogdon or Brunson.

Here is Randle's stats for WIDE OPEN SHOTS (6+ feet): Total eFG% 43%, 3pt% 27%, consisting of 13% of his shots.

Here is Randle's stats for OPEN SHOTS (4-6 feet): Total eFG% 48%, 3pt% 37%, consisting of 39% of his shots.

More than half of all of Randle's shots are open or wide open and his eFG% is poor.

It has nothing to do with Mitch. Randle is shooting poorly.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shots-closest-defender/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&CF=FG3A*E*:PLAYER_NAME*E*julius

If you want to argue it would be better to have Mitch or a center heaving 3's to unclog the lane, there are about 5-7 legit starting centers in the league that can both defend and shoot 3's at a decent clip.

Here is a good place to sort out Randle's shooting and how close defenders are: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203944/shots-dash

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:So much offensive space available to them. Played well on d as well.

Why I've been advocating for Myles Turner. A center that can hit an open 3 would open up this offense so much. Even when they play Taj at center the offense looks better because he can hit a jump shot. Turner isn't perfect but he does provide the rim protection that Thibs wants. Problem is Turner has injury problems and Thibs would play him 36 minutes a night until his knees gave out. Maybe Mo Bamba could be had at a reasonable rate

Yes I have been pushing for Turner or Bamba for the same reasons. Obviously Mitch has been great, but Turner would open up space for Barrett and Randle, if the plan is to continue to build around them.

except Barrent and Randle doont have a spacing problem. The problem isnt Mitch. Its Randle and RJ. "Spacing" is NOT why Randle shot 41% from 3 last year and 30% this year. Please quantify that before we stick **** players at center like Turner and wonder why the spacing isnt working

3pt shooting isn’t the concern here. If we have a center that can make threes than Randle spends more time close to the basket and won’t see as many double teams. If you want to stick with Mitch, fine, he’s a good player. But Randle will continue to take tough threes and long range twos because mitch’s defender is hedging towards him and living with the handful of Mitch offensive rebounds per game. It can absolutely still work, but Randle and Barrett will have to live with tougher shots. Replace Mitch with Turner or Bamba and the lane is open for Barrett and Randle with no help defender nearby.

Mitch's defender is out near the 3point line or just under hedging towards Randle? I don't see that.

Mitch spends a lot of time typically in the PnR or dunkers spot. Randle has a ton of wide open 3's and just misses or hesitates while open, jukes and dribbles for a while and then takes a step back or contested 3. This has nothing to do with Mitch.

EVERY team would benefit from a stretch center but there only so many guys out there who do that while defending at a high level.

There are like 5 or so of those guys in the league?

Mitch’s defender spends a lot of time hedging to Randle so it prevents him from attacking the basket one on one. A good portion of Randle settling for mid range shots is the concern for that help defender. Obviously not all the time. But if you watch it closely you can see it’s a factor. I am not opposed to resigning Mitch. There’s pros and cons to keeping him or replacing him. But the primary con to keeping him is his presence doesn’t make life easiest for Randle and Barrett. It comes down to him being dominant enough at what he does to make up for that. Part of me just wants to see this same team with a real PG. either a star like D Mitchell or SGA, or a high end role player like Brogdon or Brunson.

Here is Randle's stats for WIDE OPEN SHOTS (6+ feet): Total eFG% 43%, 3pt% 27%, consisting of 13% of his shots.

Here is Randle's stats for OPEN SHOTS (4-6 feet): Total eFG% 48%, 3pt% 37%, consisting of 39% of his shots.

More than half of all of Randle's shots are open or wide open and his eFG% is poor.

It has nothing to do with Mitch. Randle is shooting poorly.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shots-closest-defender/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PerMode=Totals&CloseDefDistRange=6%2B%20Feet%20-%20Wide%20Open&CF=FG3A*E*:PLAYER_NAME*E*julius

If you want to argue it would be better to have Mitch or a center heaving 3's to unclog the lane, there are about 5-7 legit starting centers in the league that can both defend and shoot 3's at a decent clip.

Here is a good place to sort out Randle's shooting and how close defenders are: https://www.nba.com/stats/player/203944/shots-dash

Randle isn’t shooting well this season. No argument there. My concern was always trying to make him the best version of himself, which is a pick and roll and picks and pop player. Given him open space to bully guys underneath without worrying about the double team. Mitch is a solid player and imperfect fit. Those concerns were always there until Randle had a career shooting year to alleviate those concerns. Now he’s regressed and we are back to the same issue of needing specific skill sets to compliment him. If we ever have a chance to get Zion, it’s the same thing. Mitch brings it on D but his defender will leave him to help out elsewhere and live with the result. This is why the center position has been devalued to the degree that it has. But I’d happily resign Mitch and live with the less-than-perfect fit as opposed to replacing him with a guy who can just shoot. I believe the alternative is finding a quality backup center who can shoot that can compliment/backup Mitch for 20 mpg and play more with Randle and Barrett.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:So much offensive space available to them. Played well on d as well.

Why I've been advocating for Myles Turner. A center that can hit an open 3 would open up this offense so much. Even when they play Taj at center the offense looks better because he can hit a jump shot. Turner isn't perfect but he does provide the rim protection that Thibs wants. Problem is Turner has injury problems and Thibs would play him 36 minutes a night until his knees gave out. Maybe Mo Bamba could be had at a reasonable rate

Yes I have been pushing for Turner or Bamba for the same reasons. Obviously Mitch has been great, but Turner would open up space for Barrett and Randle, if the plan is to continue to build around them.

except Barrent and Randle doont have a spacing problem. The problem isnt Mitch. Its Randle and RJ. "Spacing" is NOT why Randle shot 41% from 3 last year and 30% this year. Please quantify that before we stick **** players at center like Turner and wonder why the spacing isnt working

3pt shooting isn’t the concern here. If we have a center that can make threes than Randle spends more time close to the basket and won’t see as many double teams. If you want to stick with Mitch, fine, he’s a good player. But Randle will continue to take tough threes and long range twos because mitch’s defender is hedging towards him and living with the handful of Mitch offensive rebounds per game. It can absolutely still work, but Randle and Barrett will have to live with tougher shots. Replace Mitch with Turner or Bamba and the lane is open for Barrett and Randle with no help defender nearby.

Mitch's defender is out near the 3point line or just under hedging towards Randle? I don't see that.

Mitch spends a lot of time typically in the PnR or dunkers spot. Randle has a ton of wide open 3's and just misses or hesitates while open, jukes and dribbles for a while and then takes a step back or contested 3. This has nothing to do with Mitch.

EVERY team would benefit from a stretch center but there only so many guys out there who do that while defending at a high level.

There are like 5 or so of those guys in the league?

then you're not watching.

Doesn't happen ALL the time, but it does....and Atlanta implemented it throughout last years playoffs. Granted, it was Noel out there and not Mitchell, but they are both damn near the same.

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:So much offensive space available to them. Played well on d as well.

Why I've been advocating for Myles Turner. A center that can hit an open 3 would open up this offense so much. Even when they play Taj at center the offense looks better because he can hit a jump shot. Turner isn't perfect but he does provide the rim protection that Thibs wants. Problem is Turner has injury problems and Thibs would play him 36 minutes a night until his knees gave out. Maybe Mo Bamba could be had at a reasonable rate

Yes I have been pushing for Turner or Bamba for the same reasons. Obviously Mitch has been great, but Turner would open up space for Barrett and Randle, if the plan is to continue to build around them.

except Barrent and Randle doont have a spacing problem. The problem isnt Mitch. Its Randle and RJ. "Spacing" is NOT why Randle shot 41% from 3 last year and 30% this year. Please quantify that before we stick **** players at center like Turner and wonder why the spacing isnt working

3pt shooting isn’t the concern here. If we have a center that can make threes than Randle spends more time close to the basket and won’t see as many double teams. If you want to stick with Mitch, fine, he’s a good player. But Randle will continue to take tough threes and long range twos because mitch’s defender is hedging towards him and living with the handful of Mitch offensive rebounds per game. It can absolutely still work, but Randle and Barrett will have to live with tougher shots. Replace Mitch with Turner or Bamba and the lane is open for Barrett and Randle with no help defender nearby.

Mitch's defender is out near the 3point line or just under hedging towards Randle? I don't see that.

Mitch spends a lot of time typically in the PnR or dunkers spot. Randle has a ton of wide open 3's and just misses or hesitates while open, jukes and dribbles for a while and then takes a step back or contested 3. This has nothing to do with Mitch.

EVERY team would benefit from a stretch center but there only so many guys out there who do that while defending at a high level.

There are like 5 or so of those guys in the league?

the bold... like literally every night (except last night). All Turner/Bamba do is add another average low impact player. Mitch has a LOT of room for growth... but even status quo he's a much higher impact player than either of those guys.

Agree. We need Mitch extended to a long term deal

PassTheBall wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:So much offensive space available to them. Played well on d as well.

Why I've been advocating for Myles Turner. A center that can hit an open 3 would open up this offense so much. Even when they play Taj at center the offense looks better because he can hit a jump shot. Turner isn't perfect but he does provide the rim protection that Thibs wants. Problem is Turner has injury problems and Thibs would play him 36 minutes a night until his knees gave out. Maybe Mo Bamba could be had at a reasonable rate

Yes I have been pushing for Turner or Bamba for the same reasons. Obviously Mitch has been great, but Turner would open up space for Barrett and Randle, if the plan is to continue to build around them.

except Barrent and Randle doont have a spacing problem. The problem isnt Mitch. Its Randle and RJ. "Spacing" is NOT why Randle shot 41% from 3 last year and 30% this year. Please quantify that before we stick **** players at center like Turner and wonder why the spacing isnt working

3pt shooting isn’t the concern here. If we have a center that can make threes than Randle spends more time close to the basket and won’t see as many double teams. If you want to stick with Mitch, fine, he’s a good player. But Randle will continue to take tough threes and long range twos because mitch’s defender is hedging towards him and living with the handful of Mitch offensive rebounds per game. It can absolutely still work, but Randle and Barrett will have to live with tougher shots. Replace Mitch with Turner or Bamba and the lane is open for Barrett and Randle with no help defender nearby.

Mitch's defender is out near the 3point line or just under hedging towards Randle? I don't see that.

Mitch spends a lot of time typically in the PnR or dunkers spot. Randle has a ton of wide open 3's and just misses or hesitates while open, jukes and dribbles for a while and then takes a step back or contested 3. This has nothing to do with Mitch.

EVERY team would benefit from a stretch center but there only so many guys out there who do that while defending at a high level.

There are like 5 or so of those guys in the league?

This is spot on and is a representation of his BB IQ.

Right. I don't consider it too high. On a deep playoff team, you want him to be your 3rd best player, at best.