fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TheGame wrote:If McBride does not start getting 15 minutes the rest of the way, Thibbs should be fired.

I would like to see McBride, IQ, Grimes and Obi all get 30 minutes a game.

That does NOT take into account Thib's job which is to win games and manage the players. Yes.. he can tell Kemba/Burks/Randle/Rose to sit and chill while he gives the kids some burn. It should be fine... they are only grown men with their own careers and lives to manage... they should take it well.

I get the "we need changes" chatter... but most of these points ignore the fact this is the NBA and these are humans.

Imagine the team you're a part of at work is struggling and your boss comes to you and says they are giving 30% of the your work to lesser paid new hires to see if they can do better. Now this will impact your output and potentially future earnings, but I expect you would all take it well and say "sure! Im a pro and this makes total sense."

Right? Its just that easy right? You all would have great attitudes on a day to day basis, help the new guys, heck... maybe even buy them lunch.

I mean the "play kids or fire Thibs" crowd is cute but there is some willful denial in terms of reality.

Get what you are saying. Valid points. Was heavily dug in on this side as well. But starting to think that Deuce deserved a chance given the need in the second unit. Maybe I am just skewed by the success Grimes has had when given the chance. The one thing I do have to say, which Chandler brought up on another thread, is that the unit Thibs is putting out there has at least been capable of getting 20+ leads on teams. The question is what is causing them to lose those games? The only thing I see is the difference in pace and the fact Kemba has not played much in those collapses.
Not saying that having Kemba out of the lineup is the cause just that that has been the case.

I am not even saying I have the answers... there are so many moving parts. Like not pissing off guys and looking like a **** show when you have a bunch you want to trade. If they do plan on moving Randle benching him isnt going to boost his value. If anything getting him playing better around the younger guys would.

I dont know what the perfect play is for the rest of the season. I would love to see McBride run the team for 30 minutes a night but thats not realistic or even fair for a lot of reasons and its just not as simple as "fire Thibs if he doesnt play the kids."

Man I wanna see them play also... but its just not that phuckin simple

Agree that it is not easy. A couple of things I keep in mind. Thibs sees his players more than anyone. He would know who gives us the best shot to win. Thibs is old school. Which many players respect. He feels rooks have to really earn time and be a MUCh better options than guys in front of them. If fans are upset he does not give any yoots a chance, they may want to look at Grimes.

NYKMentality wrote:

Philc1 wrote:He's a jets fan. The Knicks are in maybe a 10-16x better situation than his football team

Oh yeah. One more thing. Haven't I asked you (kindly) plenty of times to please stop reminding me of Jets Football while I'm on a Knicks forum? Haven't I asked you multiple times to stop it?

Philc1

You joined JN on August 28th of 2017.

You have currently 29,204 Jets posts.

Your last visit was a couple of days ago on February 13th of 2022

But yet you call me the Jets fan and you have 30,000 freaking posts on a JETS SITE?!? 🤭😆🤭

THAT'S PATHETIC DUDE .

I was banned from that idiotville sh thole a year ago. No idea what you’re talking about- and I never said I wasn’t a jet fan I’m just honest about their hopeless situation which makes the Knicks situation look good

NYKMentality wrote:

Philc1 wrote:He's a jets fan. The Knicks are in maybe a 10-16x better situation than his football team

Oh yeah. One more thing. Haven't I asked you (kindly) plenty of times to please stop reminding me of Jets Football while I'm on a Knicks forum? Haven't I asked you multiple times to stop it?

Philc1

You joined JN on August 28th of 2017.

You have currently 29,204 Jets posts.

Your last visit was a couple of days ago on February 13th of 2022

But yet you call me the Jets fan and you have 30,000 freaking posts on a JETS SITE?!? 🤭😆🤭

THAT'S PATHETIC DUDE .

It is only the Alba posts that really count. So, nothing to see here, please disperse.

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:
FO has to tell Thibs to give McBride time. NO bs. And if he can't, then yea, he should be fired. Not telling him lose games. Simply stating reality- there is 0% of making the play offs- or if you want, 1%. And as a franchise, we have to find out if the kid has a shot of being any kind of PG for us.

When you hire a head coach, you are giving him the power to run the active roster on the court as he sees fit.

That's the deal.

If you want a rookie to play and you are the GM, you either hope someone gets injured or suspended or you trade off the veterans in front of the rookie.

Thibs was hired to try to win games. He is actually trying to win games. You can argue he's not doing a great job of strategy at times to do that, but he's more likely to win games now with his veterans. Leon Rose knew exactly what kind of coach that Thibs represented and was established at being.

I'm going to be fair about this all. Thibs is a high conflict personality type. He's always feuding with someone somewhere and it's just his thing. But if he's not a fit in the vision for this team and where it's at and where it needs to be, that's on Leon Rose for hiring him in the first place.

If Leon Rose wanted the team to play a certain way, he should have installed himself as head coach. Or hired a no experience puppet of a coach to do what he wants.

If Leon Rose wanted to coach the team and make playing time decisions, he's a bigger ahole than the guy who hired him.

Didn't we already experience the bold with Mr. Prez Triangle Hot Pockets? Is that your not so subtle point, or are you actually making a valid suggestion?

SergioNYK wrote:

fishmike wrote:

TheGame wrote:If McBride does not start getting 15 minutes the rest of the way, Thibbs should be fired.

I would like to see McBride, IQ, Grimes and Obi all get 30 minutes a game.

That does NOT take into account Thib's job which is to win games and manage the players. Yes.. he can tell Kemba/Burks/Randle/Rose to sit and chill while he gives the kids some burn. It should be fine... they are only grown men with their own careers and lives to manage... they should take it well.

I get the "we need changes" chatter... but most of these points ignore the fact this is the NBA and these are humans.

Imagine the team you're a part of at work is struggling and your boss comes to you and says they are giving 30% of the your work to lesser paid new hires to see if they can do better. Now this will impact your output and potentially future earnings, but I expect you would all take it well and say "sure! Im a pro and this makes total sense."

Right? Its just that easy right? You all would have great attitudes on a day to day basis, help the new guys, heck... maybe even buy them lunch.

I mean the "play kids or fire Thibs" crowd is cute but there is some willful denial in terms of reality.

It really bothers me when fans complain that Thibs doesn't play young players. WTF are RJ, Mitch, Grimes and IQ!? It's so easy for them to say oh bench Kemba and Burks. And who the heck is going to play backup PG and playmaker? I know everyone likes the shiney new toy in Reddish but he cannot play that role either. And don't you think Thibs sees Deuce in practice and knows more than we do? This is a second round pick and the G-League is not the NBA. Maybe the kid is not ready! Thibs is not stupid. He as well as anybody knows we need a PG desperately. Don't you think he'd play Deuce if he was good enough? The Obi **** is also annoying. Look, I'd also like for Obi to play 20 minutes per game because he was a lottery pick but he hasn't exactly set the basketball world on fire in the minutes he has gotten. Aside from some nice dunks and hustle plays, what else does he do?! Not to mention he is the worst threepoint shooter per volume in the entire league too! And what happened when Obi did get the start and heavy minutes in those games Randle missed because of covid? Obi **** the bed!

I think some fans will never ever be happy with the coach or lineups. They want a rotation that consists of all kids. It's beyond annoying considering not even the hardcore tanking teams do this! All teams play vets in their rotation! It just sucks that our vets this year have underachieved.

We don't have much on the team but we have a damn good coach. Some of you are pointing the finger and blaming the wrong person.

No I don’t think he would play deuce. He wouldnt have played grimes if it wasn’t for Covid. Also certain players impact a game more than what u see in practice. So no I don’t think he would play deuce because there are other PGs in front of deuce, according to thibs.

1. Kemba
2. Rose
3. Burks
4. IQ

In thibs mind deuce is number 5 or 6 on the depth chart, if u throw in rokas. In my mind there are only 3 players that played PG in college that’s on the roster. And deuce is 3rd. But what do I know, I’m just a fan.

Well, sounds like you the only one fighting for thibs. His own camp is trying to fire him as we speak. So it’s not “some of you” which I’m assuming are fans. There’s already discussions and finger pointing going on within the FO. All pointing at thibs. At this point this has nothing to do with the fans. It’s all on thibs. He if we are going to be hard on Randle then thibs deserves some of that finger pointing as well, not just Randle.

Blowing 3 20pt leads. Not coming out of half time ready. Being out coached. In game subs and plays after timeouts. The players will tell u if they trust or believe in the coach with their energy and body language. It’s the coaches job to get the best out of his players. He’s failing at that. Also he’s a defensive coordinator that lacks offensive creativity. Yes he’s a great coach, on defense. He’s average to below regarding offense.

Yes he plays the youths when he has no choice. If it was up to him, he would’ve had a team full of vets. Everybody knows he trust his vets over his rookies to win games. He’s old school and believes the rooks should sit and learn and wait for their time. New school plays whoever can impact the game regardless of age. What u are seeing is a mix in strategy between the front office drafting young and Thibs looking to win with taj, rose and Burks.

All of this is a mute point. Thibs is under the hot seat now and the media will ride that new horse like they did Randle until he started playing better. Plus thibs said their will be major changes coming with the rotation. He already said taj will sub in for Obi. That tells me Obi will get more burn in the second half. I’m sure cam will also. And I wouldn’t be surprised if thibs is forced to play deuce. His dominating performance stats wise, is enough pressure on thibs to play him, regardless how he looks in practice. At this point everybody is coming at thibs so he either complies or he will be replaced. That’s the business of the nba controlled by the media. At this point Has nothing to do with fans.

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:
FO has to tell Thibs to give McBride time. NO bs. And if he can't, then yea, he should be fired. Not telling him lose games. Simply stating reality- there is 0% of making the play offs- or if you want, 1%. And as a franchise, we have to find out if the kid has a shot of being any kind of PG for us.

When you hire a head coach, you are giving him the power to run the active roster on the court as he sees fit.

That's the deal.

If you want a rookie to play and you are the GM, you either hope someone gets injured or suspended or you trade off the veterans in front of the rookie.

Thibs was hired to try to win games. He is actually trying to win games. You can argue he's not doing a great job of strategy at times to do that, but he's more likely to win games now with his veterans. Leon Rose knew exactly what kind of coach that Thibs represented and was established at being.

I'm going to be fair about this all. Thibs is a high conflict personality type. He's always feuding with someone somewhere and it's just his thing. But if he's not a fit in the vision for this team and where it's at and where it needs to be, that's on Leon Rose for hiring him in the first place.

If Leon Rose wanted the team to play a certain way, he should have installed himself as head coach. Or hired a no experience puppet of a coach to do what he wants.

If Leon Rose wanted to coach the team and make playing time decisions, he's a bigger ahole than the guy who hired him.

Didn't we already experience the bold with Mr. Prez Triangle Hot Pockets? Is that your not so subtle point, or are you actually making a valid suggestion?

I disagree a bit here. Modern NBA coaching has to be collaborative. And maybe there is a power struggle, maybe that is why Kemba went from starting to the bench- perhaps one of the analytic guys in the FO said- Kemba is killing us.

I’m not asking for the FO to call plays, but at this stage of the season, I think simply consulting with Thibs and saying- we have to find out if McBride can give us minutes at PG, and finding a way to do it is within reason. I’m not asking him to lose games.

Coaching has to be collaborative? I couldn't disagree more. Collaborative when the FO is putting the team together via trades, signings and drafting, yes. I'm sure Thibs has some input there. But Leon the career agent capologist and WWW and Perry telling Thibs who they HAVE to find out about? WTF does Thibs do everyday in practice? Have the rooks serve water and wash towels? Think Thibs marches in to Leon's office and tells him he has to HAVE Jimmy Butler? Maybe Kemba got benched because he couldn't guard you at the time and Thibs thought platooning Burks and IQ was a better idea than watching Kemba stare at people shooting threes and layups over him? He really needed an analytic guy to point out what he was watching on the floor everyday?

McBride's killing in the Gleague. Hooray. Thibs has Ryan Archdiocese Bulls scrub extraordinaire sitting the bench. I doubt Thibs was clamoring for him.

I don't understand the hardons for Deuce. He started two games and **** the bed pretty much. He's been in a smattering of games this season and hasn't shown much. I don't place a lot of faith in per 36 minute stats, and even then, even his free throw shooting sucks major donkeyshlong, and the rest of his shooting sucks worse.

But of course, let's take the Frank Burns approach and do anything.

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:
FO has to tell Thibs to give McBride time. NO bs. And if he can't, then yea, he should be fired. Not telling him lose games. Simply stating reality- there is 0% of making the play offs- or if you want, 1%. And as a franchise, we have to find out if the kid has a shot of being any kind of PG for us.

When you hire a head coach, you are giving him the power to run the active roster on the court as he sees fit.

That's the deal.

If you want a rookie to play and you are the GM, you either hope someone gets injured or suspended or you trade off the veterans in front of the rookie.

Thibs was hired to try to win games. He is actually trying to win games. You can argue he's not doing a great job of strategy at times to do that, but he's more likely to win games now with his veterans. Leon Rose knew exactly what kind of coach that Thibs represented and was established at being.

I'm going to be fair about this all. Thibs is a high conflict personality type. He's always feuding with someone somewhere and it's just his thing. But if he's not a fit in the vision for this team and where it's at and where it needs to be, that's on Leon Rose for hiring him in the first place.

If Leon Rose wanted the team to play a certain way, he should have installed himself as head coach. Or hired a no experience puppet of a coach to do what he wants.

If Leon Rose wanted to coach the team and make playing time decisions, he's a bigger ahole than the guy who hired him.

Didn't we already experience the bold with Mr. Prez Triangle Hot Pockets? Is that your not so subtle point, or are you actually making a valid suggestion?

I disagree a bit here. Modern NBA coaching has to be collaborative. And maybe there is a power struggle, maybe that is why Kemba went from starting to the bench- perhaps one of the analytic guys in the FO said- Kemba is killing us.

I’m not asking for the FO to call plays, but at this stage of the season, I think simply consulting with Thibs and saying- we have to find out if McBride can give us minutes at PG, and finding a way to do it is within reason. I’m not asking him to lose games.

I believe there is a power struggle. Thibs is pretty solid and seasoned with a long coaching resume. Leon Rose is a new president who hired other guys that may or may not be new. But I'm sure Thibs is in a situation where there are too many cooks in the kitchen. And everybody has their say so on how to cook the food. I'm sure they rely on Thibs to coach but just like all good coaches or cooks. If the food doesn't taste right, you question the cook. If the team isn't playing well, you question the coach. Especially a coach of the year coach with a most improved player in Randle. Rose added offensive players and Thibs had to agree (I'm guessing). So yes, there appears to be more than what we are seeing.

Regarding the push back on playing Deuce, I don't get it. So fans rather lose games with Kemba than lose games with Deuce? Please help me with this one. Also, I keep hearing everybody talk about Deuce free throws???? Really? But ignore his impact on defense which is missing from Kemba? I can understand why Thibs is not playing Deuce. I can't understand why a knick fan (who was estatic we finally got a steal at PG in the draft). How a fan doesn't want to see Deuce get real time? And even arguing about it? wow. Anyway, Thibs may not have a choice. The pressure to play Deuce will only build up, as he continues to kill in the G league. When the NY media gets a hold of you, it's over. Right now they on Thibs hard, along with the FO.

Philc1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:
FO has to tell Thibs to give McBride time. NO bs. And if he can't, then yea, he should be fired. Not telling him lose games. Simply stating reality- there is 0% of making the play offs- or if you want, 1%. And as a franchise, we have to find out if the kid has a shot of being any kind of PG for us.

When you hire a head coach, you are giving him the power to run the active roster on the court as he sees fit.

That's the deal.

If you want a rookie to play and you are the GM, you either hope someone gets injured or suspended or you trade off the veterans in front of the rookie.

Thibs was hired to try to win games. He is actually trying to win games. You can argue he's not doing a great job of strategy at times to do that, but he's more likely to win games now with his veterans. Leon Rose knew exactly what kind of coach that Thibs represented and was established at being.

I'm going to be fair about this all. Thibs is a high conflict personality type. He's always feuding with someone somewhere and it's just his thing. But if he's not a fit in the vision for this team and where it's at and where it needs to be, that's on Leon Rose for hiring him in the first place.

If Leon Rose wanted the team to play a certain way, he should have installed himself as head coach. Or hired a no experience puppet of a coach to do what he wants.

If Leon Rose wanted to coach the team and make playing time decisions, he's a bigger ahole than the guy who hired him.

Didn't we already experience the bold with Mr. Prez Triangle Hot Pockets? Is that your not so subtle point, or are you actually making a valid suggestion?

And once upon a time in the late 90’s a GM named Gregg Poppovich fired a decorated head coach Bob hill and all that resulted was 5 championships

Not saying Thibs should be fired but Rose is absolutely right to criticize his rotations which are inept right now. He’s playing his veterans waaaayyy too much while not playing young guys like Obi and Cam enough and he has a pg who has played well in actual games rotting away in westchester

And yet Grimes is getting time and so is IQ, even though neither are setting the world on fire...

Obi does great things on the break and moves well on offense, but among our big men, he's still a defensive liability. Which we know will not fly with Thibs.
McBride was given two starts and some playing time and did what, exactly? He's playing well in Westchester, whoopi-de-dam-doo.

franco12 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

franco12 wrote:
FO has to tell Thibs to give McBride time. NO bs. And if he can't, then yea, he should be fired. Not telling him lose games. Simply stating reality- there is 0% of making the play offs- or if you want, 1%. And as a franchise, we have to find out if the kid has a shot of being any kind of PG for us.

When you hire a head coach, you are giving him the power to run the active roster on the court as he sees fit.

That's the deal.

If you want a rookie to play and you are the GM, you either hope someone gets injured or suspended or you trade off the veterans in front of the rookie.

Thibs was hired to try to win games. He is actually trying to win games. You can argue he's not doing a great job of strategy at times to do that, but he's more likely to win games now with his veterans. Leon Rose knew exactly what kind of coach that Thibs represented and was established at being.

I'm going to be fair about this all. Thibs is a high conflict personality type. He's always feuding with someone somewhere and it's just his thing. But if he's not a fit in the vision for this team and where it's at and where it needs to be, that's on Leon Rose for hiring him in the first place.

If Leon Rose wanted the team to play a certain way, he should have installed himself as head coach. Or hired a no experience puppet of a coach to do what he wants.

If Leon Rose wanted to coach the team and make playing time decisions, he's a bigger ahole than the guy who hired him.

Didn't we already experience the bold with Mr. Prez Triangle Hot Pockets? Is that your not so subtle point, or are you actually making a valid suggestion?

And once upon a time in the late 90’s a GM named Gregg Poppovich fired a decorated head coach Bob hill and all that resulted was 5 championships

Not saying Thibs should be fired but Rose is absolutely right to criticize his rotations which are inept right now. He’s playing his veterans waaaayyy too much while not playing young guys like Obi and Cam enough and he has a pg who has played well in actual games rotting away in westchester

WTF are you talking about? Pop spent 6 years as an assistant coach, and you're comparing that to 2 year FO veteran super agent Leon Rose?

And yet Grimes is getting time and so is IQ, even though neither are setting the world on fire...

Obi does great things on the break and moves well on offense, but among our big men, he's still a defensive liability. Which we know will not fly with Thibs.
McBride was given two starts and some playing time and did what, exactly? He's playing well in Westchester, whoopi-de-dam-doo.

Did I miss Randle's Defensive Player of the Year award?

I guess some here would like to see players get time, learn by playing, learn through their mistakes.

And I totally get it- maybe McBride isn't an NBA player- but I don't think we know that yet. Question, could he really be a worse PG than Burks?

Question is, does Thibs just possibly already know at this juncture that McBride is a worse PG than Burks? And with Rose coming back, maybe the question should be why bring the kid back right now for yet another few cameo appearances so he can piss his pants again?

Practice is where you learn. You're forking out $150 bucks a seat to watch games at MSG while eating 20 dollar hot dogs and drinking 8 dollar beers, and you want to see G-league college kids learning about making mistakes? Seriously?

Yeah, we talkin bout practice...