He’s stinking up the joint compared to last year, but I have faith he’ll turn it around.

I’m willing to wait at least 2 or 3 more games.

JK… even if we miss the playoffs the last thing I want to see is NY giving up on him.

Nalod wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Randle supporters look to the 2 games Randle missed when the team struggled to support why we need to keep Randle. Those same people posting should remember that most here were not suggesting to have him sit out and not play. Randle could be turned into a different opportunity (eg trade for player, picks, young prospects, packaged with another in trade).

Our team has a host of problems - but Randle is the focal point as everything runs through him. He holds the most value. The 2nd unit and RJ play a different style/pace and Randle has not adjusted one bit - he still holds the ball too long, poor decision-making when pressured, etc - he's been there 3 seasons. It's not even fair to expect he will suddenly develop these skills after being in the league for 6+ seasons. He's not all of the sudden going to be ok with becoming a 2nd or 3rd option (if RJ passes him which appears possible). He sulks when he doesn't get calls he feels he should, or when the fans express their displeasure.

And if I'm wrong and he were okay with a demoted role - it would have to be a Melo-type trade where we deplete have of the young talent and picks to land a player more accomplished than Randle. That makes zero sense to me.

It's far easier to trade one flawed player (with value) and keep the remaining players/reserves/picks to continue building. Yes we would mostly likely take a step back at first. We're not going anywhere but middle of the road with Randle as the leader.

As for Collins - it's not a bad idea as Toppin isn't ready to step in as a starter so Collins is solid, athletic and still young enough there's hope for more development. Getting Collins would take the pressure off the next issue of landing a specific type of PG to fit around Randle.

Please, this is total non sense,

Marbury
Melo
Amare
Jr Smith
Beasely
Tyson

Fans wanted all of these guys out as soon as they struggled.

Doesn't matter who it is, you struggled knicks HOMERS will want you out of here in a heart beat.

But if Your RJ, KP, Frank, Willy herm, Knox, you can struggle as much as you want....it's ok.

Your argument is weak and baseless. I did not want most of the guys off the Knicks - loved Tyson, Beasley and Amare, Liked Marbury and Melo but time came when it was clear we needed to move on from them. It did make me laugh when you posted guys like KP and Knox as I was never big fans of them but anyway...

This is not a reactionary thing - I've been posting this since the beginning of last season when I suggested he overachieved and we should "sell high." How can you possibly suggest that was the wrong move and that where we are at now is not much worse? His value has decreased but there is still some. You clearly must be a Homer if you have blind loyalty over the team. Let's prove this - RJ is my guy (favorite player on team right now) but if doesn't continue to grow and is still shooting 55% FT in a few seasons he can go as well. I would trade him right now if if clearly made us better in the long-term.

A few questions I hope you will answer...

Can you explain with actual reasoning (not feeling/emotions) why you believe moving on from Randle is "total nonsense"?

What can you offer to realistically defend and support why (after almost 3 full seasons) we should continue to build around Randle?

What problems can you acknowlege w/Randle (eg too ball dominant, doesn't handle pressure well, plays slowly, sulks) if any?

If we were to continue building around Randle - how would you realistically obtain the #1 guy so Randle drops down to the #2 or #3?

Do you not see the difficulty/limitations as we keep trying to find the right fits around Randle vs not having this issue?

If we did gut the bench and draft picks to land a #1 level player - why do you think that would be better/easier vs changing one player?

Im in the camp we build WITH randle and not around.
That RJ becomes the no. 1 option.
That in time Randle is 3rd option on a really good team. Our team.
Im in the camp that Randle needs to grow to understand when to left off the gas and delegate better.
The attitude thing can be over come.
Thats my take. We differ. We won’t change each others minds.

Ok - but for sake of argument...
Not sure RJ will be a #1 (hopeful but he really has to exhibit much better shooting percentages) to ascend
Fine/can agree... but how do you get a #1 or #2 option without using Randle in a trade or gutting the bench and depleting our picks?
If this were his first season here or he was a young player I could see it... but he's 27 and has been here almost 3 seasons and is worse
Not sure I agree - it can be moderated or regulated but compare RJ and Randle. RJ cussed at the ref out of frustration and later apologized because he knows he was wrong and to show officials respect. That shows he has some handle on his emotions/maturity. Randle missed a bunch of shots in a row, here's a few boos and he's thumbs-downing the crowd... not sure how much that demeanor can improve

Uptown wrote:Typically, I root for the front of the jersey more so than the back of the jersey. Over the years, there have been players that I like more than others, and few players I didn’t care for. But, I have never disliked a Knick player as much as I dislike Randle. I was pretty much out on him after his first year. He bounced back and had a good year last year, but his disastrous playoff performance reminded me of the Randle from the year before. This year, he pretty much doubled down on his ****ty play with ****ty effort and an even ****tier attitude. He is playing worse than he did two years ago as he is more inefficient, his effort is more pathetic on most nights and he is emotionally unstable. Last years headlines and stories were strictly on court performance. This year, Randle’s antics have kicked the door open for Barnum and Bailey to return to the garden. I just can’t root for this guy anymore…

I’ve seen several trade proposals for Randle and one that may or may not make sense is picking up the phone and calling Atl one more time….I live in Atlanta so every now and then I listen to sports talk radio on my drive to and from work. Word is, the Hawks may have some buyer’s remorse for signing Collins this summer. We may be in similar situations. Hawks rewarded Collins for his great playoff performance, and we rewarded Randle for his regular season performance.

The Hawks are looking for a legit #2 for Trae and Collins hasn’t stepped-up the way they wanted him to. One thing about Collins that I do like, outside of being more efficient than Randle, is that Collins is a stand-up dude. He is not afraid to voice his displeasure with the way the offense is running, pretty much insinuating that the Hawks offense is too-Trae-Centric. He is the one that will appear on talk radio and represent the Hawks, calling out the poor play, etc.

Wouldn't mind us looking into swapping Collins and Randle....Collins makes us more athletic, quicker, and gives us a legit finisher at the 4 and we can run our offense through our guards.

Here is my counter to the idea. NO ONE really knows how a players will do with a new team. Most fans ignore fit. Which is the most important thing to predict how that player will do. Here is my question....Atlanta has one of the best PG's in the league? He draws an awful lot of attention and double teams? Collins is the kind of player that needs to be fed the ball off cuts and kick outs. If he is struggling in ATL, as you say, with one of the best PG's, how will he play better in NY with NO PG? Do not think the Knicks should trade Randle until they can put a solid squad around him. Which includes a solid PG. Don't you think that would be a smart way of truly evaluating a potential center piece. For me, that would be pretty smart and better planned out. It can be said that Atlanta has more pieces than we do. They also have a star. Therefore Collins not Randle has shown that he may be the one that can make a big difference in win totals. Considering he has more talent around him than Randle. Who has NO PG, inconsistent shooters. No consistency at the center position, and guys that are shooting career lows from outside. You may be right, but lets not ignore that.

Philc1 wrote:

ToddTT wrote:Every night I’m rooting for Julius to score 40+, and the return of the chants.

He’s stinking up the joint compared to last year, but I have faith he’ll turn it around.

I’m willing to wait at least 2 or 3 more games.

JK… even if we miss the playoffs the last thing I want to see is NY giving up on him.

They have no choice. The Knicks and Randle are stuck with eachother at least next 3 years after this season at a minimum

This. I don't see either party getting asking for a divorce.

Knicks were better last season because of Rose's play off the bench. If we had that, our record would be better.

Eastern Conference is a lot stronger this year- Mobley,DeRoza, LaMelo have really tilted the standings.

Julius feels the worst about not getting the wins. He also needs Rose to lean on.

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:yelp wahhhhhhhhhh yelp wahhhhhhhhh Listen to the crying jackals. JULIUS IS A HUMAN BEING, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!! PLEASE STOP!!!

I was actually high on Collins about a year or so ago. He seemed the type who could just take over a game on both ends. But that's come to end. Is it Trae? I don't know and don't care.

He's not a better defensive player than Randle and he's worse come playoff time than Randle has been in a small sample size, and that's saying something. Why trade Randle for someone else's problem? Trae's possibly going to be one of those Steph Curry-type annoying generational talents and Collins gets point for not playing nice. Great logic there.

And I could really give a **** how he or any player handles the media.

You begin your post supposedly mocking those who are calling out Randle insinuating that we are crying....then you preceded to Cry yourself, calling Randle a human being. You sound like one of Randle's coddlers and enablers. Hall of Fame Athletes have dealt with far worse than Randle has in NY, (Jeter, Reggie Jackson, Ewing......Even your boy Melo), and they all did something that Randle is unwilling to do. Admit when you are playing like **** and own it!!

Collins was far more efficient in the playoffs than Randle who shot below 29% on the Hawks series. Before the Hawks went on their run in the playoffs, there was talk that Collins was going to get signed and traded in the summer. His team's performance and his performance (especially against the Sixers) in the playoffs is what earned him his payday...

Collins is far more efficient while scoring less and not rebounding, passing or doing anything defensively better than Randle. Shit, he doesn't even get to the line as often as Randle does in the playoffs, and Randle gets less calls than Melo did.

Collins is more efficient on half as many attempts per game. Yeah, that's worth the payday he got. You're all pissy about enabling Randle, but your boy Collins can't play with Trae? Your need to move your favorite headcase out of that terrible situation of getting to the playoffs every year isn't coddling?

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Uptown wrote:Typically, I root for the front of the jersey more so than the back of the jersey. Over the years, there have been players that I like more than others, and few players I didn’t care for. But, I have never disliked a Knick player as much as I dislike Randle. I was pretty much out on him after his first year. He bounced back and had a good year last year, but his disastrous playoff performance reminded me of the Randle from the year before. This year, he pretty much doubled down on his ****ty play with ****ty effort and an even ****tier attitude. He is playing worse than he did two years ago as he is more inefficient, his effort is more pathetic on most nights and he is emotionally unstable. Last years headlines and stories were strictly on court performance. This year, Randle’s antics have kicked the door open for Barnum and Bailey to return to the garden. I just can’t root for this guy anymore…

I’ve seen several trade proposals for Randle and one that may or may not make sense is picking up the phone and calling Atl one more time….I live in Atlanta so every now and then I listen to sports talk radio on my drive to and from work. Word is, the Hawks may have some buyer’s remorse for signing Collins this summer. We may be in similar situations. Hawks rewarded Collins for his great playoff performance, and we rewarded Randle for his regular season performance.

The Hawks are looking for a legit #2 for Trae and Collins hasn’t stepped-up the way they wanted him to. One thing about Collins that I do like, outside of being more efficient than Randle, is that Collins is a stand-up dude. He is not afraid to voice his displeasure with the way the offense is running, pretty much insinuating that the Hawks offense is too-Trae-Centric. He is the one that will appear on talk radio and represent the Hawks, calling out the poor play, etc.

Wouldn't mind us looking into swapping Collins and Randle....Collins makes us more athletic, quicker, and gives us a legit finisher at the 4 and we can run our offense through our guards.

Collins is a nice player. Shooting the three better and a beast at finishing around the basket.

Here is my counter to the idea. NO ONE really knows how a players will do with a new team. Most fans ignore fit. Which is the most important thing to predict how that player will do. Here is my question....Atlanta has one of the best PG's in the league? He draws an awful lot of attention and double teams? Collins is the kind of player that needs to be fed the ball off cuts and kick outs. If he is struggling in ATL, as you say, with one of the best PG's, how will he play better in NY with NO PG? Do not think the Knicks should trade Randle until they can put a solid squad around him. Which includes a solid PG. Don't you think that would be a smart way of truly evaluating a potential center piece. For me, that would be pretty smart and better planned out. It can be said that Atlanta has more pieces than we do. They also have a star. Therefore Collins not Randle has shown that he may be the one that can make a big difference in win totals. Considering he has more talent around him than Randle. Who has NO PG, inconsistent shooters. No consistency at the center position, and guys that are shooting career lows from outside. You may be right, but lets not ignore that.

I appreciate the well-thought out post...First off, Julius's value is depreciated, so if we are serious about moving him, it will be to a team that is ready to blow things up, and or for a player that is not living up to expectations of is just not working out. I am not saying Collins is a savior, but the Hawks might want to move his contract similar to us moving on from Randle. I cut the cord so I haven't seen them much this year, but from what I remember last year, Capella is the main roll guy and Collins is used mostly as a floor spacer. One thing I like about his fit here is the fact that he doesn't monopolize the ball, he is not a high usage player, he is one of the most athletic players in the league and would fit in with some of our young guys, etc.

Again, Collins might not be the answer and I am not saying he is, but moving Randle would essentially mean we are moving our problem for someone else's problem or unwanted contract....

The bold is all I've been saying. Collins appears to me to be a Simmons-lite type project. Despite the familiarity rule, better the devil you know in this situation.

Uptown wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Uptown wrote:Typically, I root for the front of the jersey more so than the back of the jersey. Over the years, there have been players that I like more than others, and few players I didn’t care for. But, I have never disliked a Knick player as much as I dislike Randle. I was pretty much out on him after his first year. He bounced back and had a good year last year, but his disastrous playoff performance reminded me of the Randle from the year before. This year, he pretty much doubled down on his ****ty play with ****ty effort and an even ****tier attitude. He is playing worse than he did two years ago as he is more inefficient, his effort is more pathetic on most nights and he is emotionally unstable. Last years headlines and stories were strictly on court performance. This year, Randle’s antics have kicked the door open for Barnum and Bailey to return to the garden. I just can’t root for this guy anymore…

I’ve seen several trade proposals for Randle and one that may or may not make sense is picking up the phone and calling Atl one more time….I live in Atlanta so every now and then I listen to sports talk radio on my drive to and from work. Word is, the Hawks may have some buyer’s remorse for signing Collins this summer. We may be in similar situations. Hawks rewarded Collins for his great playoff performance, and we rewarded Randle for his regular season performance.

The Hawks are looking for a legit #2 for Trae and Collins hasn’t stepped-up the way they wanted him to. One thing about Collins that I do like, outside of being more efficient than Randle, is that Collins is a stand-up dude. He is not afraid to voice his displeasure with the way the offense is running, pretty much insinuating that the Hawks offense is too-Trae-Centric. He is the one that will appear on talk radio and represent the Hawks, calling out the poor play, etc.

Wouldn't mind us looking into swapping Collins and Randle....Collins makes us more athletic, quicker, and gives us a legit finisher at the 4 and we can run our offense through our guards.

Collins is a nice player. Shooting the three better and a beast at finishing around the basket.

Here is my counter to the idea. NO ONE really knows how a players will do with a new team. Most fans ignore fit. Which is the most important thing to predict how that player will do. Here is my question....Atlanta has one of the best PG's in the league? He draws an awful lot of attention and double teams? Collins is the kind of player that needs to be fed the ball off cuts and kick outs. If he is struggling in ATL, as you say, with one of the best PG's, how will he play better in NY with NO PG? Do not think the Knicks should trade Randle until they can put a solid squad around him. Which includes a solid PG. Don't you think that would be a smart way of truly evaluating a potential center piece. For me, that would be pretty smart and better planned out. It can be said that Atlanta has more pieces than we do. They also have a star. Therefore Collins not Randle has shown that he may be the one that can make a big difference in win totals. Considering he has more talent around him than Randle. Who has NO PG, inconsistent shooters. No consistency at the center position, and guys that are shooting career lows from outside. You may be right, but lets not ignore that.

I appreciate the well-thought out post...First off, Julius's value is depreciated, so if we are serious about moving him, it will be to a team that is ready to blow things up, and or for a player that is not living up to expectations of is just not working out. I am not saying Collins is a savior, but the Hawks might want to move his contract similar to us moving on from Randle. I cut the cord so I haven't seen them much this year, but from what I remember last year, Capella is the main roll guy and Collins is used mostly as a floor spacer. One thing I like about his fit here is the fact that he doesn't monopolize the ball, he is not a high usage player, he is one of the most athletic players in the league and would fit in with some of our young guys, etc.

Again, Collins might not be the answer and I am not saying he is, but moving Randle would essentially mean we are moving our problem for someone else's problem or unwanted contract....

+1

The bold is all I've been saying. Collins appears to me to be a Simmons-lite type project. Despite the familiarity rule, better the devil you know in this situation.

Essentially, that's what I was trying to get across in the original post. I picked Collins, not because I'm necessarily a fan of his, but because he may be available due to the fact he is not living up to expectations similar to Randle.

Addition by subtraction. Collins doesn't think he's Kobe and ISO ZO like Randle does. He appears to be a rim running forward who can shoot a little bit when wide open. I just can't get this thought out of my head, seeing him get dunked on this year by a few guys. But I would approve a Randle for Collins trade, if that was possible. Makes RJ the main guy, and Thibs doesn't have to give Collins Randle minutes. He can now increase Obi minutes.

Sambakick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:why would the knicks trade Randle after what he did for an entire season last yr.

You think it's fair to judge randle on 2 1/2 months of play.

"NY WE HERE" was quoted less then 10 months ago, now it's get this guy out of here.

I get frustrated with Randle as well, but I get equal frustrated with

Burk shooting 19% from 3 since the 34 point game a month ago, 32% fg over all

Mitch and RJ missing FT's

IQ going 1-10 last game, and being super inconsistent

Fournier showing up 1 in every 4 to 5 games

NOEL can't stay healthy

Rose having surgery MID season

Kemba Playing whenever he's knees allow him to play

ThIBs suspect Rotations

OBI's 19% 3 pt shooting.

So don't pin point every thing on RANDLE because he wasn't drafted by the knicks

Bro... last year aint coming back.

not for nothing but Randle's recent play is cratering towards 2019

martin wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:why would the knicks trade Randle after what he did for an entire season last yr.

You think it's fair to judge randle on 2 1/2 months of play.

"NY WE HERE" was quoted less then 10 months ago, now it's get this guy out of here.

I get frustrated with Randle as well, but I get equal frustrated with

Burk shooting 19% from 3 since the 34 point game a month ago, 32% fg over all

Mitch and RJ missing FT's

IQ going 1-10 last game, and being super inconsistent

Fournier showing up 1 in every 4 to 5 games

NOEL can't stay healthy

Rose having surgery MID season

Kemba Playing whenever he's knees allow him to play

ThIBs suspect Rotations

OBI's 19% 3 pt shooting.

So don't pin point every thing on RANDLE because he wasn't drafted by the knicks

Bro... last year aint coming back.

not for nothing but Randle's recent play is cratering towards 2019

I think Rose saved Randle last year. And now we are reminded how the knicks were b4 Rose got here. And now without Rose, we are reminded how Randle handled adversity. Randle should give Rose some of his pay check. I think Randles days of leading a team might be closing. He had a great opportunity here, but that window is closing.

But I can’t. Randle is that dour, negative guy barking at refs that his son pointed out to him… he self reflected, hopefully it can happen again

I just wish he’d eat his humble pie.. if he would everyone would appreciate it and we could move on