BRIGGS wrote:Mitch Robinson
RJ Barrett
Quentin Grimes
Cam Reddish

I don’t know enough about McBride or Sims but there both minimal contracts

Everything else I’d try to use to rebuild a core around these two. Need to find a quality pg wing players who can handle and preferably bigger players. Randle is a potential disaster area. I’m on the fence with obi as I think him and Quickley can be used as trade fillers and we can look elsewhere.

Briggs I’m curious how you would fill in the rest of the roster.

I like how Fournier been playing lately. Which is why now is a good time to trade him. Find another shooter that plays defense. There has to be somebody out there. Doesn’t have to shoot as good, but definitely a better defender. And move the new guy to the bench.

Remove Kemba and get levert or a PG who can back up Rose. When Rose is ready, he can be the starter assuming he’s coming back sometime this season.

Basically reverse what Leon Rose did. Strip it back to the core from last years vets. Keep the yoots.

Kemba n EF was a bad fit

Those moves really exposed Randle to me. It tells me that it’s difficult to build around Randle and RJ. And when it works, don’t fix it. We should’ve just stayed the course until a better player was available via free agency or RJ pops. But we got cute and remove the two worse players without realizing how important they were to Randle and RJ.

Removing 2 starters was a major tweek this team wasn’t able to recover from. And it should be obvious now that’s part of the problem. Just like thibs wants to keep the second unit together. Not because IQ is all world and Obi is the best young prospect in the nba. It’s because they all fit together. Case in point, how come todays Knicks are now broken, even though we added two players way better than Payton and bullock. 🤦‍♂️

blkexec wrote:Payton n bullock didn’t suck. They provided what we needed. You don’t have to have an all star player at every position 🤣 to make a team better. In a vacuum sure those guys can’t compete with Kemba and EF. But I bet a million dollars if we had them right now, our record would’ve been better and Randle would be playing better. Don’t sleep on chemistry and especially fit. That trumps individual talent. If Randle was a superstar player, then losing Payton and bullock doesn’t matter. But the reason why it worked ? It’s like going in the kitchen and buy pure luck, u find the right ingredients that works. Make any small changes and it will taste bad.

Those moves really exposed Randle to me. It tells me that it’s difficult to build around Randle and RJ. And when it works, don’t fix it. We should’ve just stayed the course until a better player was available via free agency or RJ pops. But we got cute and remove the two worse players without realizing how important they were to Randle and RJ.

Removing 2 starters was a major tweek this team wasn’t able to recover from. And it should be obvious now that’s part of the problem. Just like thibs wants to keep the second unit together. Not because IQ is all world and Obi is the best young prospect in the nba. It’s because they all fit together. Case in point, how come todays Knicks are now broken, even though we added two players way better than Payton and bullock. 🤦‍♂️

martin wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

sidsanders wrote:what have you seen from reddish to say he needs to stick? hasnt appeared yet to see if he clicks with what you would like them to keep or anyone at all.

He’s a ball handling athletic 6-8 wing who can shoot. We just used a 1 on him

his last team let him go before they had to extend him. that should be a bit of concern. is he going to have injury problems that extend out as well. does he really fit or is he going to fuss cuz he isnt getting as much usage as he wants (if you buy some of why he wanted out of atl)?

I think this has been stated before but I'll recap: Cam is a high potential, high ceiling player who has not put things together. Inconsistent. Also, played behind guys who play his same wing role: Huerter, Hunter, Gallo, Bogi. They have another low cost guy who has been getting minutes: Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot, I don't know any about that dude.

Atlanta extended Huerter last year and made decision to favor extending Hunter over Cam.

Cam had let Atlanta know he wanted out last offseason, and they stupidly didn't move him and then decided to also not prioritize him this season so his value dropped.

Cam's trade value further dropped because he wants an extension.

Atlanta FO handled his situation poorly and now he is a Knicks player.

Knicks don't really have a SF or a wing player who can consistently beat his man off the dribble and that last part is vital. He does have Paul George lite vibes IF he can put it together. He has a year to prove that.

A guy like Steph Curry also had injury issues and durability questions in his first years and was almost traded. Not all injuries are alike.

Great points.
For me, Cam can be the shiny thing fans see through rose-colored glasses.
We had Kevin Knox, who when given more than 20 minutes per game(Only first year) averaged 13pts, 5 reb's and shot 37 and 34.
Cam has received over 20 minutes a game for the last three years and is averaging 11pts, 3.4 reb,s and shoots 38 and 32.
BUT he is going to make a difference?

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:Payton n bullock didn’t suck. They provided what we needed. You don’t have to have an all star player at every position 🤣 to make a team better. In a vacuum sure those guys can’t compete with Kemba and EF. But I bet a million dollars if we had them right now, our record would’ve been better and Randle would be playing better. Don’t sleep on chemistry and especially fit. That trumps individual talent. If Randle was a superstar player, then losing Payton and bullock doesn’t matter. But the reason why it worked ? It’s like going in the kitchen and buy pure luck, u find the right ingredients that works. Make any small changes and it will taste bad.

Those moves really exposed Randle to me. It tells me that it’s difficult to build around Randle and RJ. And when it works, don’t fix it. We should’ve just stayed the course until a better player was available via free agency or RJ pops. But we got cute and remove the two worse players without realizing how important they were to Randle and RJ.

Removing 2 starters was a major tweek this team wasn’t able to recover from. And it should be obvious now that’s part of the problem. Just like thibs wants to keep the second unit together. Not because IQ is all world and Obi is the best young prospect in the nba. It’s because they all fit together. Case in point, how come todays Knicks are now broken, even though we added two players way better than Payton and bullock. 🤦‍♂️

I agree with some of your points. No one said Bullock sucked. Just that he was limited. There are no numbers out there to back up the statement that Elfrid Payton didn't suck. We have more than enough video evidence over the past few years to corroborate most fans observations that Payton sucked. He went to another team and he still sucks.
Now that's out of the way, I agree that the chemistry might have been hurt. But I don't think this team would've been better if you brought Elf and Bullock back as starters. Bullock is just too limited offensively. If a team can stick Trae Young on you in the playoffs and nullify you, than you can see the writing in the wall. Elf wasn't even playable. You can question the front offices moves, but you can't question that the team needed talent upgrades to keep pace with the rest of the east.

That’s exactly what Leon Rose did. He gave us talent in Kemba and EF. What Rose didn’t realize is how impactful it would be on the team as well as Randle and RJ when you remove your top perimeter defenders in payton and bullock.

And most knick fans said they suck and still say they suck. But that’s the offensive minded culture we are in now. Ignoring their defensive impact is crazy. I’ve been saying this since they was on the team and everybody goes back to their offense 😂.

I wanted Bullock back. I even wanted him back over Burks because I thought IQ was ready to fill that role(I was wrong). But it was easy to see that Payton was a liability on offense and defense at the tail end. He didn't add any value outside of being Randle's friend. My biggest complaint with the off season at the time is that the team didn't bring in any defenders for the forward position. Didn't have to be a good shooter, but someone who could eat minutes. Hopefully Cam can be that guys, though I'd like someone a bit bulkier. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.
It all won't matter if Julius continues to suck.

However bad payton played on defense at the tail end was still better than Kemba now. And I too wanted bullock back over Burks….even though Burks is more skillful. I believe thibs wanted Burks as the PG because he miss Payton’s length and defense at the Point of attack. What thibs didn’t expect and neither did I was the impact on Burks offense. Just goes to show you any guard is not the answer, when paired up with Randle and RJ. And for whatever reason, Payton worked in that role and Kemba doesn’t. Those are facts then and facts now.

Moving forward, I said it last year and I’ll say it again. We need 2 way players in our starting lineup around Randle and RJ. Cam could provide some of that, if thibs ever plays him with the starters. But deuce is who I prefer we have guarding other PGs not Kemba. I don’t care if deuce bricks every shot. So did Payton. Doesn’t mean we don’t need defense at that position period. Who we want, I don’t care. I’m picking the best defender on our team. Some are picking players not on the team. But we all agree on one thing, Kemba and EF are turn styles for wings against any team, regardless of their record. That’s why Orlando and New Orleans gives us problems.

Mitch
Randle
Cam
RJ
Deuce

That’s my 5. And that’s who I think would play better on both ends of the floor.
Switch Kemba for deuce might work, but cam needs shots and so does kemba. Deuce doesn’t need shots and he’s happy to just play defense and pass.

My starting 5 gives us 3 two way players around our go to players, in Mitch, cam and deuce around Randle and RJ. Keep the second unit together and I guarantee (in barkleys voice) we make the playoffs if healthy. Cams health is the only question for me.