martin wrote:blkexec, here is another direct question for you.

I think you mentioned you played D1 ball but correct me if I am wrong, so you would have experience in this area.

If a coach randomly decided to bench a starter for the 13th or 14th or 15th guy on the bench who has not earned his minutes, what does that typically do to the lockeroom and guys who that 13th-15th guy jumped over without earning those minutes?

You have repeatedly suggested that you would jump the 13th man on Knicks roster to the starting position in regards to Deuce.

What downward effect could that bring about if it doesn't work out?

These are some good questions.

Having played at a high level, I can tell you that all of these would have great consequences in the locker room.

Points that must be considered:
1)A successful coach knows that he needs his BEST players to play at a high level in order to have the best chance to have a strong season.
Benching any of those players does not do anything to make that happen. Thibs best knows each player's ceiling and who those best players are. Fans don't always agree.
2)The mentality of letting a first-year second-round draft pick start is not typical of ANY coach/organization in the NBA. Given that those players are just not what fans think they are and more importantly do not line up with the business side of the NBA. ie. Contracts committed to.
3)Thibs was hired to win and has put a plan in place with the roster he was given. Since when is that plan scrapped in the middle of the season with a second-round COMBO guard, who has little PG experience, was a backup at the college level just two years ago, and is shooting 18% from three and 27% overall being at the forefront of the change??

As you are suggesting, most should understand the challenges and consequences of elevating a bench player with NO experience to a starting role. Coaches would lose ALL credibility with their players. Is Deuce worth that risk?
They should also know the difficulties, at ANY level, for a PG to come in and navigate an offense. As we have seen with Kemba, it is difficult enough for a tenured All-Star PG to create the chemistry needed when surrounded by new players. We have seen how an experience NBA player in Burks is not able to consistently play at a high level if thrown out there to be the PG. We have seen how an incredibly gifted player in IQ, who has the utmost confidence and a whole year under his belt, is not able to perform at a consistent level. But we are expecting a kid with little NBA PG experience to do so?

Think Deuce is a good prospect. Just feel we should wait until the end of the season when we have no shot at the playoffs. Cannot think of any professional sport where teams are rolling out second-rounders in the middle of the season. Much rather see Burks or IQ continue to fill in if Walker and Rose are out. Or a trade be made for a proven PG if one becomes abailable.

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:blkexec, here is another direct question for you.

I think you mentioned you played D1 ball but correct me if I am wrong, so you would have experience in this area.

If a coach randomly decided to bench a starter for the 13th or 14th or 15th guy on the bench who has not earned his minutes, what does that typically do to the lockeroom and guys who that 13th-15th guy jumped over without earning those minutes?

You have repeatedly suggested that you would jump the 13th man on Knicks roster to the starting position in regards to Deuce.

What downward effect could that bring about if it doesn't work out?

These are some good questions.

Having played at a high level, I can tell you that all of these would have great consequences in the locker room.

Points that must be considered:
1)A successful coach knows that he needs his BEST players to play at a high level in order to have the best chance to have a strong season.
Benching any of those players does not do anything to make that happen. Thibs best knows each player's ceiling and who those best players are. Fans don't always agree.
2)The mentality of letting a first-year second-round draft pick start is not typical of ANY coach/organization in the NBA. Given that those players are just not what fans think they are and more importantly do not line up with the business side of the NBA. ie. Contracts committed to.
3)Thibs was hired to win and has put a plan in place with the roster he was given. Since when is that plan scrapped in the middle of the season with a second-round COMBO guard, who has little PG experience, was a backup at the college level just two years ago, and is shooting 18% from three and 27% overall being at the forefront of the change??

As you are suggesting, most should understand the challenges and consequences of elevating a bench player with NO experience to a starting role. Coaches would lose ALL credibility with their players. Is Deuce worth that risk?
They should also know the difficulties, at ANY level, for a PG to come in and navigate an offense. As we have seen with Kemba, it is difficult enough for a tenured All-Star PG to create the chemistry needed when surrounded by new players. We have seen how an experience NBA player in Burks is not able to consistently play at a high level if thrown out there to be the PG. We have seen how an incredibly gifted player in IQ, who has the utmost confidence and a whole year under his belt, is not able to perform at a consistent level. But we are expecting a kid with little NBA PG experience to do so?

Think Deuce is a good prospect. Just feel we should wait until the end of the season when we have no shot at the playoffs. Cannot think of any professional sport where teams are rolling out second-rounders in the middle of the season. Much rather see Burks or IQ continue to fill in if Walker and Rose are out. Or a trade be made for a proven PG if one becomes abailable.

No experience to a starting role? Huh? He started 29 games his sophmore year as a PG in college.
Kemba is washed up....
Burks is not a PG....
IQ is not a PG....

Deuce is a PG who was drafted as a PG who has experience as a PG and has already proven himself against the top picks in the draft in the NCAA Tourney when they beat Kansas. And guess what, he was the starting PG. This is laughable!

If you are kicking and screaming to watch Kemba and Burks run the point, thats fine. I'm not and thats ok. But to discredit a rookie who would be a junior in college right now, (as a starting PG) is absolutely crazy. And by the way, if he came out this year, he would not be a second round pick. Give me a break.

Again, trade Kemba becasue he does nothing for our future. Put Burks back on the second unit. Start IQ or Rose. And Deuce will be 3rd string. But the facts can't be ignored. Between IQ, Burks and Deuce, there's only 1 true PG of that group. You can't argue facts.

Discussing when he should play is a personal preference. I would have no problem starting IQ and making Deuce his backup, while Rose is working his way back.

Most read that sentence you are responding to as "NO experience to a starting role" IN THE NBA

I don't think there has even been a bench college player drafted in first round or early first but I'd love to know cause that would be awesome

BigDaddyG wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:blkexec, here is another direct question for you.

I think you mentioned you played D1 ball but correct me if I am wrong, so you would have experience in this area.

If a coach randomly decided to bench a starter for the 13th or 14th or 15th guy on the bench who has not earned his minutes, what does that typically do to the lockeroom and guys who that 13th-15th guy jumped over without earning those minutes?

You have repeatedly suggested that you would jump the 13th man on Knicks roster to the starting position in regards to Deuce.

What downward effect could that bring about if it doesn't work out?

These are some good questions.

Having played at a high level, I can tell you that all of these would have great consequences in the locker room.

Points that must be considered:
1)A successful coach knows that he needs his BEST players to play at a high level in order to have the best chance to have a strong season.
Benching any of those players does not do anything to make that happen. Thibs best knows each player's ceiling and who those best players are. Fans don't always agree.
2)The mentality of letting a first-year second-round draft pick start is not typical of ANY coach/organization in the NBA. Given that those players are just not what fans think they are and more importantly do not line up with the business side of the NBA. ie. Contracts committed to.
3)Thibs was hired to win and has put a plan in place with the roster he was given. Since when is that plan scrapped in the middle of the season with a second-round COMBO guard, who has little PG experience, was a backup at the college level just two years ago, and is shooting 18% from three and 27% overall being at the forefront of the change??

As you are suggesting, most should understand the challenges and consequences of elevating a bench player with NO experience to a starting role. Coaches would lose ALL credibility with their players. Is Deuce worth that risk?
They should also know the difficulties, at ANY level, for a PG to come in and navigate an offense. As we have seen with Kemba, it is difficult enough for a tenured All-Star PG to create the chemistry needed when surrounded by new players. We have seen how an experience NBA player in Burks is not able to consistently play at a high level if thrown out there to be the PG. We have seen how an incredibly gifted player in IQ, who has the utmost confidence and a whole year under his belt, is not able to perform at a consistent level. But we are expecting a kid with little NBA PG experience to do so?

Think Deuce is a good prospect. Just feel we should wait until the end of the season when we have no shot at the playoffs. Cannot think of any professional sport where teams are rolling out second-rounders in the middle of the season. Much rather see Burks or IQ continue to fill in if Walker and Rose are out. Or a trade be made for a proven PG if one becomes abailable.

No experience to a starting role? Huh? He started 29 games his sophmore year as a PG in college.
Kemba is washed up....
Burks is not a PG....
IQ is not a PG....

Deuce is a PG who was drafted as a PG who has experience as a PG and has already proven himself against the top picks in the draft in the NCAA Tourney when they beat Kansas. And guess what, he was the starting PG. This is laughable!

If you are kicking and screaming to watch Kemba and Burks run the point, thats fine. I'm not and thats ok. But to discredit a rookie who would be a junior in college right now, (as a starting PG) is absolutely crazy. And by the way, if he came out this year, he would not be a second round pick. Give me a break.

Again, trade Kemba becasue he does nothing for our future. Put Burks back on the second unit. Start IQ or Rose. And Deuce will be 3rd string. But the facts can't be ignored. Between IQ, Burks and Deuce, there's only 1 true PG of that group. You can't argue facts.

Discussing when he should play is a personal preference. I would have no problem starting IQ and making Deuce his backup, while Rose is working his way back.

Most read that sentence you are responding to as "NO experience to a starting role" IN THE NBA

I don't think there has even been a bench college player drafted in first round or early first but I'd love to know cause that would be awesome

Marvin Williams was drafted as a lottery pick while subbing in for UNC as a sixth man. Plug that into the useless trivia file. I think last year was Duece's first year as starting PG. While most scouts admitted he made strides, he was drafted with the understanding that he was a bit of a project.

you are good with the useless, thanks

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:blkexec, here is another direct question for you.

I think you mentioned you played D1 ball but correct me if I am wrong, so you would have experience in this area.

If a coach randomly decided to bench a starter for the 13th or 14th or 15th guy on the bench who has not earned his minutes, what does that typically do to the lockeroom and guys who that 13th-15th guy jumped over without earning those minutes?

You have repeatedly suggested that you would jump the 13th man on Knicks roster to the starting position in regards to Deuce.

What downward effect could that bring about if it doesn't work out?

These are some good questions.

Having played at a high level, I can tell you that all of these would have great consequences in the locker room.

Points that must be considered:
1)A successful coach knows that he needs his BEST players to play at a high level in order to have the best chance to have a strong season.
Benching any of those players does not do anything to make that happen. Thibs best knows each player's ceiling and who those best players are. Fans don't always agree.
2)The mentality of letting a first-year second-round draft pick start is not typical of ANY coach/organization in the NBA. Given that those players are just not what fans think they are and more importantly do not line up with the business side of the NBA. ie. Contracts committed to.
3)Thibs was hired to win and has put a plan in place with the roster he was given. Since when is that plan scrapped in the middle of the season with a second-round COMBO guard, who has little PG experience, was a backup at the college level just two years ago, and is shooting 18% from three and 27% overall being at the forefront of the change??

As you are suggesting, most should understand the challenges and consequences of elevating a bench player with NO experience to a starting role. Coaches would lose ALL credibility with their players. Is Deuce worth that risk?
They should also know the difficulties, at ANY level, for a PG to come in and navigate an offense. As we have seen with Kemba, it is difficult enough for a tenured All-Star PG to create the chemistry needed when surrounded by new players. We have seen how an experience NBA player in Burks is not able to consistently play at a high level if thrown out there to be the PG. We have seen how an incredibly gifted player in IQ, who has the utmost confidence and a whole year under his belt, is not able to perform at a consistent level. But we are expecting a kid with little NBA PG experience to do so?

Think Deuce is a good prospect. Just feel we should wait until the end of the season when we have no shot at the playoffs. Cannot think of any professional sport where teams are rolling out second-rounders in the middle of the season. Much rather see Burks or IQ continue to fill in if Walker and Rose are out. Or a trade be made for a proven PG if one becomes abailable.

No experience to a starting role? Huh? He started 29 games his sophmore year as a PG in college.
Kemba is washed up....
Burks is not a PG....
IQ is not a PG....

Deuce is a PG who was drafted as a PG who has experience as a PG and has already proven himself against the top picks in the draft in the NCAA Tourney when they beat Kansas. And guess what, he was the starting PG. This is laughable!

If you are kicking and screaming to watch Kemba and Burks run the point, thats fine. I'm not and thats ok. But to discredit a rookie who would be a junior in college right now, (as a starting PG) is absolutely crazy. And by the way, if he came out this year, he would not be a second round pick. Give me a break.

Again, trade Kemba becasue he does nothing for our future. Put Burks back on the second unit. Start IQ or Rose. And Deuce will be 3rd string. But the facts can't be ignored. Between IQ, Burks and Deuce, there's only 1 true PG of that group. You can't argue facts.

Discussing when he should play is a personal preference. I would have no problem starting IQ and making Deuce his backup, while Rose is working his way back.

Most read that sentence you are responding to as "NO experience to a starting role" IN THE NBA

I don't think there has even been a bench college player drafted in first round or early first but I'd love to know cause that would be awesome

Right, I'll assume he's talking about no NBA experience. Isn't that the case for all players in the draft?

No clue with the "bench college player" statement. loss me with that one.

Let me help you guys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_McBride

2020-21 (sophomore year)
GS 28 = Games Started
GP 29 = Games Played

Come on Martin, you the stat king not me. This is too easy

Actually, you and I may have both read it incorrectly. "As you are suggesting, most should understand the challenges and consequences of elevating a bench player with NO experience to a starting role"

The sentence actually just states some one as a bench player with no (NBA) experience getting elevated to a starting NBA role. Not that he didn't have any college experience starting.

Either way, what you adding the convo makes little sense to me.

And you constantly have avoided any direct answers to any of my questions. If you want to avoid that by indirectly mentioning something tangent to what I am asking, so be it.

That is what is easy for me to read.

I mean, you could have just stated what I did: I don't really watch college ball and didn't know much about Deuce but for what others have stated in a scouting report. Same with vmart.

HofstraBBall wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:blkexec, here is another direct question for you.

I think you mentioned you played D1 ball but correct me if I am wrong, so you would have experience in this area.

If a coach randomly decided to bench a starter for the 13th or 14th or 15th guy on the bench who has not earned his minutes, what does that typically do to the lockeroom and guys who that 13th-15th guy jumped over without earning those minutes?

You have repeatedly suggested that you would jump the 13th man on Knicks roster to the starting position in regards to Deuce.

What downward effect could that bring about if it doesn't work out?

These are some good questions.

Having played at a high level, I can tell you that all of these would have great consequences in the locker room.

Points that must be considered:
1)A successful coach knows that he needs his BEST players to play at a high level in order to have the best chance to have a strong season.
Benching any of those players does not do anything to make that happen. Thibs best knows each player's ceiling and who those best players are. Fans don't always agree.
2)The mentality of letting a first-year second-round draft pick start is not typical of ANY coach/organization in the NBA. Given that those players are just not what fans think they are and more importantly do not line up with the business side of the NBA. ie. Contracts committed to.
3)Thibs was hired to win and has put a plan in place with the roster he was given. Since when is that plan scrapped in the middle of the season with a second-round COMBO guard, who has little PG experience, was a backup at the college level just two years ago, and is shooting 18% from three and 27% overall being at the forefront of the change??

As you are suggesting, most should understand the challenges and consequences of elevating a bench player with NO experience to a starting role. Coaches would lose ALL credibility with their players. Is Deuce worth that risk?
They should also know the difficulties, at ANY level, for a PG to come in and navigate an offense. As we have seen with Kemba, it is difficult enough for a tenured All-Star PG to create the chemistry needed when surrounded by new players. We have seen how an experience NBA player in Burks is not able to consistently play at a high level if thrown out there to be the PG. We have seen how an incredibly gifted player in IQ, who has the utmost confidence and a whole year under his belt, is not able to perform at a consistent level. But we are expecting a kid with little NBA PG experience to do so?

Think Deuce is a good prospect. Just feel we should wait until the end of the season when we have no shot at the playoffs. Cannot think of any professional sport where teams are rolling out second-rounders in the middle of the season. Much rather see Burks or IQ continue to fill in if Walker and Rose are out. Or a trade be made for a proven PG if one becomes abailable.

No experience to a starting role? Huh? He started 29 games his sophmore year as a PG in college.
Kemba is washed up....
Burks is not a PG....
IQ is not a PG....

Deuce is a PG who was drafted as a PG who has experience as a PG and has already proven himself against the top picks in the draft in the NCAA Tourney when they beat Kansas. And guess what, he was the starting PG. This is laughable!

If you are kicking and screaming to watch Kemba and Burks run the point, thats fine. I'm not and thats ok. But to discredit a rookie who would be a junior in college right now, (as a starting PG) is absolutely crazy. And by the way, if he came out this year, he would not be a second round pick. Give me a break.

Again, trade Kemba becasue he does nothing for our future. Put Burks back on the second unit. Start IQ or Rose. And Deuce will be 3rd string. But the facts can't be ignored. Between IQ, Burks and Deuce, there's only 1 true PG of that group. You can't argue facts.

Discussing when he should play is a personal preference. I would have no problem starting IQ and making Deuce his backup, while Rose is working his way back.

Most read that sentence you are responding to as "NO experience to a starting role" IN THE NBA

I don't think there has even been a bench college player drafted in first round or early first but I'd love to know cause that would be awesome

Right, I'll assume he's talking about no NBA experience. Isn't that the case for all players in the draft?

No clue with the "bench college player" statement. loss me with that one.

Let me help you guys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_McBride

2020-21 (sophomore year)
GS 28 = Games Started
GP 29 = Games Played

Come on Martin, you the stat king not me. This is too easy

You post a wik and do not read it. I stated he was a bench player TWO years ago. Meaning NOT last season (Sophmore) NOT this season (ROOK) but TWO (Freshman)
NO Experience means NO Experience in the NBA. Unless we are going to count ONE Sophomore season in college as the standard prerequisite in the NBA to get a starting PG role?

You still fail to address the fact that this is all based on what YOU feel Deuce can do. Yet fail to mention he has not done anything that would prove he has earned the right to be a staring PG in the NBA? The facts are that he played ONE year as PG in college. The facts are that he is a rookie and just a second-round pick. The fact is that he is not even part of the rotation. Yet YOU feel he is better suited to fill in for injured players over IQ, Burks. And is better suited than Kemba as a PG? Some on here feel RJ can run at PG. Some feel Grimes can. That may be a better idea. At least their talent/experience has earned the right to do so. Most on the team would agree.

You have also failed to address what you should know would be the negative impact on Thibs if this move failed.

Look, I would root for Deuce. Feel he can be a very good player. Think you are trying to merge that into a case that he should start. Without taking several other realistic factors into consideration.

Kemba play gave him IQ you or me the right to start. Come on guys

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:Tibs would be wise to get McBride into the rotation for 25-30 minutes. He is a pure point guard. That is what is lacking in this team. Also Kemba is a liability on defense so is Fournier. Thins whole plan is Rose bailing him out. If Rose isn’t there Thibs is mediocre coach. Anyways he would be wise to let McBride play more.

He has never been a pure PG. Know you Knicks players.

Martin you are relying on a past player profile. McBride has made numerous strides since his college days. He has become a better player. If you look at what he is doing when ever he plays for Westchester. You would see his evolution. If you look at his play it is reminiscent of Rose. Maybe I use the word “pure” a little lightly. But he is the most pure pg the Knicks have. What you don’t consider is player who evolve their game to accommodate their weaknesses and McBride has shown that he is making necessary development to become an all around Point guard. I don’t see why he doesn’t get the necessary playing time. It’s time for the Knicks to start phasing out Kemba and Rose make room for Quickly and McBride.

None of the above is correct but its hyped. Maybe no. 1.
Mcbride falls into the "back up QB hype thing Thibs talked about a few weeks a good. If your gonna lose, why not give him a chance?
The asumption is we gonna lose all the games.

Fact. We were a better team with Elf even though he played like ****. crazy, right?
No, I don't advocate to bring him back!!!!

NYKMentality wrote:

Nalod wrote:3. There is little gap between teh Gleague and the NBA.

Wait.

What.

There is little gap between the NBA and the G-League?!?

😅😆🤣

There is a GIGANTIC difference between the two leagues.

How many current NBA SUPERSTARS are playing basketball in the G-League right now? 😁

Dumbass, read what I wrote.

NYKMentality wrote:

Nalod wrote:3. There is little gap between teh Gleague and the NBA.

Wait.

What.

There is little gap between the NBA and the G-League?!?

😅😆🤣

There is a GIGANTIC difference between the two leagues.

How many current NBA SUPERSTARS are playing basketball in the G-League right now? 😁

Next year there will be one. Elfrid Payton