Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

martin wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:I should've never argued with Knicks fans and defended the likes of R.J. Barrett/Julius Randle/Tom Thibs.

We're awful.

And just when I thought we were going to go on a serious run; we've now lost 3 consecutive games (two + down by 24 @ home heading into the 4th Q vs. a trash Pelicans team).

I'll still watch every single game but I won't be posting as much anymore and wasting my energy on this team and no I won't be bumping up my stupid Eastern Conference Standings thread any time soon (because the best we can do is play for a play in).

I apologize to UK for my homerism this year + my idiotic 60 wins thread. After 20 years of Knicks darkness I wanted to use this team as an excuse to become fired up about NYC basketball again; but I was wrong.

If NYK wants to save NYKMENTALITY they better come from behind down 24 in the 4th Q and win because if not? I'll join team tank and let the MSG boo birds sing.

Is it OK to boo Randle now?

Nope…Randle didn’t replace payton and bullock with Kemba and Fournier….Randle didn’t spend the off season cap on players that have zero impact on this team. If you want to boo someone, boo Leon rose if that makes people feel better. Boo this roster which is broken. Thibs, Randle, RJ, Rose and Taj was the core last year. The players around them changed.

We should boo the fans that placed enormous expectations on randle because of his paycheck. Randle hasn’t changed. He’s just not emotionally strong to put NY on his back like melo or Patrick Ewing, reed and Clyde did for years. He’s not the alpha leader that will carry us. He’s a system player who played well in thibs system last year. That’s it.

We had success last year because it was a wierd season. 2/3 of the teams were gassed because of no break after Lebron's stupid bubble tournament. No fans in the stands in away games (turns out that also benefitted us in home games as well since Randle is being exposed as a sensitive snowflake)

And then we went on our big run second half of the season once we traded for Derrick Rose who lit it up playing for a contract.

Elf sucks, Bullock is an ok defender and average shooter.

100%

I don't get immediate move from medium warm correlation to immediate causation between Elf/Bullock and them being on team that won to the main reason the current Knicks iteration can't.

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:I should've never argued with Knicks fans and defended the likes of R.J. Barrett/Julius Randle/Tom Thibs.

We're awful.

And just when I thought we were going to go on a serious run; we've now lost 3 consecutive games (two + down by 24 @ home heading into the 4th Q vs. a trash Pelicans team).

I'll still watch every single game but I won't be posting as much anymore and wasting my energy on this team and no I won't be bumping up my stupid Eastern Conference Standings thread any time soon (because the best we can do is play for a play in).

I apologize to UK for my homerism this year + my idiotic 60 wins thread. After 20 years of Knicks darkness I wanted to use this team as an excuse to become fired up about NYC basketball again; but I was wrong.

If NYK wants to save NYKMENTALITY they better come from behind down 24 in the 4th Q and win because if not? I'll join team tank and let the MSG boo birds sing.

I've been happy that you've been an overly optimistic poster here to counterbalance some of the constant negativity. That being said (and I'll apologize in advance) I really can't relate to this post. For me, the Knicks and this board represent entertainment and enjoyment so there would be no time that I would consider quitting. While I may decide to take a few breaks now and again when things are not fun, how the Knicks play will ultimately not effect who I am, how I choose to act or how I go about my family, business and leisure. Personally I think at times you may be a bit hyperbolic and histrionic for my posting tastes and I suspect you can sway overly positive or negative depending on which way the wind is blowing with the team - but to each his own.

Why is when a player plays like trash and fan criticizes them, it's call negativity.

How exactly would you respond to Randle's play last night, "HE HAD A TOUGH GAME" you'll get em next time tiger.

Are you feeling insecure about my comment? Constant negativity/complaining about the Front Office / Cam Reddish trade because he was injured and using a misleading statement to support it. Constant negativity is waiting for the Knicks to lose a few games to post "blow it up threads" or polls on what is wrong with the Knicks. Constant negativity is stating the same agenda driven post over and over again about the same player's shortcomings. Constant negaitvity is attacking a player personally rather than how they play. These are just my opinions....to each his own.

The Knicks as a team played poorly last night with the possible excpetion of Mitch Rob. They deserve criticism. Likewise when the team or player is playing well dont they deserve praise? Constant negativity is only focusing on the negative without acknowledging the positive.

Thank you, couldn't have said it better

Sambakick wrote:Of all the reasons why this team is where it is, Randle going from an MVP candidate to someone who plays well once a week, if that, is number one on the list. Last night’s 1-for-9, four point showing was the fifth time in 44 games this season that Randle has finished with single digit points on at least seven shot attempts while shooting under 25 percent from the field. He’s done that only four times over the previous four seasons combined, and it didn’t happen at all last year. Last season also contained only six games where Randle had an individual plus/minus of negative-20 or worse. Last night was the seventh time it’s happened in the last 35 games. - Knicks Film School

Thumbs down on this post!

NYentality fanboy is sensitive. He loves Brittney, has his favorites and EF ruined his sex life. He wears knick Pajamas and has KNicks bedding ensemble for his bedroom attire. Pehraps just on game days? His children are named “Willis, Walt, Patrick and Julius”. He is the worlds most interesting Knick fan.
YOu can’t quit what you hate about yourself. Your a knick fan. Can’t shake it.
Bing Bong……..

Jmpasq wrote:This season has been such a let down. All the wasted money in free agency this off-season. Randle has regressed. Not sure whats going on there. Maybe the Knicks have been shopping him.

I believe 2 things are happening at the same time.

First, they wanted to move away from a strictly RJ, Randle heavy offense. Last year was a perfect storm that allowed both to thrive and they proved that out and team came with them. But I don't think the Knicks thought it was sustainable and this year has kinda sorta proved that out and the playoffs gave a glimpse of that.

Secondly, the Knicks also made another assessment that Randle probably wasnt the best fit as the #1 and his gravity on both the offense and defense was detrimental to the team and other players around him (especially when team is in development mode). He still wants to do the ISO thing, he has major lapses in defensive energy and tactics, ball is sticky with him, etc.

Without really any basis, I do think Randle is being shopped and the Knicks want to move on from him and about 8-10 games ago we saw his reaction to finding out. Could be something entirely different too. Could be his lack of leadership and personality and the boo'ing incident and how he handled it.

Guys like Melo and Randle don't adjust well outside of their pure strengths and they want to impose their will by just using that toolset with little regard for team, etc. Have they had success? Sure. Can a team be built around them to have pretty high level success? Sure. But is it best for the team in the role that they want to ultimately play? Not sure.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:This season has been such a let down. All the wasted money in free agency this off-season. Randle has regressed. Not sure whats going on there. Maybe the Knicks have been shopping him.

I believe 2 things are happening at the same time.

First, they wanted to move away from a strictly RJ, Randle heavy offense. Last year was a perfect storm that allowed both to thrive and they proved that out and team came with them. But I don't think the Knicks thought it was sustainable and this year has kinda sorta proved that out and the playoffs gave a glimpse of that.

Secondly, the Knicks also made another assessment that Randle probably wasnt the best fit as the #1 and his gravity on both the offense and defense was detrimental to the team and other players around him (especially when team is in development mode). He still wants to do the ISO thing, he has major lapses in defensive energy and tactics, ball is sticky with him, etc.

Without really any basis, I do think Randle is being shopped and the Knicks want to move on from him and about 8-10 games ago we saw his reaction to finding out. Could be something entirely different too. Could be his lack of leadership and personality and the boo'ing incident and how he handled it.

Guys like Melo and Randle don't adjust well outside of their pure strengths and they want to impose their will by just using that toolset with little regard for team, etc. Have they had success? Sure. Can a team be built around them to have pretty high level success? Sure. But is it best for the team in the role that they want to ultimately play? Not sure.

Randle is a Kentucky and CAA client. I’d be shocked if they are honestly shopping him. I really think they are far more focused on getting the right combination of players alongside him. Also, this front office is really focused on their perception around the league and they want other players to know they take care of their players even when they struggle. Drastic changes won’t reflect well.

I've never heard that before. Don't trade a player away because of the college he went to and the reps that he has. It makes zero sense to me

martin wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:This season has been such a let down. All the wasted money in free agency this off-season. Randle has regressed. Not sure whats going on there. Maybe the Knicks have been shopping him.

I believe 2 things are happening at the same time.

First, they wanted to move away from a strictly RJ, Randle heavy offense. Last year was a perfect storm that allowed both to thrive and they proved that out and team came with them. But I don't think the Knicks thought it was sustainable and this year has kinda sorta proved that out and the playoffs gave a glimpse of that.

Secondly, the Knicks also made another assessment that Randle probably wasnt the best fit as the #1 and his gravity on both the offense and defense was detrimental to the team and other players around him (especially when team is in development mode). He still wants to do the ISO thing, he has major lapses in defensive energy and tactics, ball is sticky with him, etc.

Without really any basis, I do think Randle is being shopped and the Knicks want to move on from him and about 8-10 games ago we saw his reaction to finding out. Could be something entirely different too. Could be his lack of leadership and personality and the boo'ing incident and how he handled it.

Guys like Melo and Randle don't adjust well outside of their pure strengths and they want to impose their will by just using that toolset with little regard for team, etc. Have they had success? Sure. Can a team be built around them to have pretty high level success? Sure. But is it best for the team in the role that they want to ultimately play? Not sure.

I agree w a lot of this. Not sure if they’re shopping him though or someone would have leaked that. Maybe more along the lines of willing to listen to offers and maybe providing him some candid feedback behind closed doors.

Presently it has to be Leon’s absolute biggest issue. Find a way to grind it out and hope he reverts to last years form or move him in which case you’re certainly not selling at the top

I personally do not see him as a winner. He tightens up at the wrong times which is a polite way of saying choke artist

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:This season has been such a let down. All the wasted money in free agency this off-season. Randle has regressed. Not sure whats going on there. Maybe the Knicks have been shopping him.

I believe 2 things are happening at the same time.

First, they wanted to move away from a strictly RJ, Randle heavy offense. Last year was a perfect storm that allowed both to thrive and they proved that out and team came with them. But I don't think the Knicks thought it was sustainable and this year has kinda sorta proved that out and the playoffs gave a glimpse of that.

Secondly, the Knicks also made another assessment that Randle probably wasnt the best fit as the #1 and his gravity on both the offense and defense was detrimental to the team and other players around him (especially when team is in development mode). He still wants to do the ISO thing, he has major lapses in defensive energy and tactics, ball is sticky with him, etc.

Without really any basis, I do think Randle is being shopped and the Knicks want to move on from him and about 8-10 games ago we saw his reaction to finding out. Could be something entirely different too. Could be his lack of leadership and personality and the boo'ing incident and how he handled it.

Guys like Melo and Randle don't adjust well outside of their pure strengths and they want to impose their will by just using that toolset with little regard for team, etc. Have they had success? Sure. Can a team be built around them to have pretty high level success? Sure. But is it best for the team in the role that they want to ultimately play? Not sure.

Randle is a Kentucky and CAA client. I’d be shocked if they are honestly shopping him. I really think they are far more focused on getting the right combination of players alongside him. Also, this front office is really focused on their perception around the league and they want other players to know they take care of their players even when they struggle. Drastic changes won’t reflect well.

Nalod wrote:ITs plausible that Randle has been on trade talk. The reality of Fans turning on Thibs and Randle is a demonstration of impatience by a frustrated fan base. It really does not factor on Leons construction.
Lets be real, Randle skill set coveted by other teams? If so it should be measured. Im ok with that.
Guessing at why randle is so salty is a good exercise for us. Many theories. Mine is he is adapting to his ball movement development and decison making. For EF and RJ to succeed, and the team to succeed he has to do this. Maybe thats what I see in his hesitancy at times. He is moving the ball a lot more!

The CAA and KEntucky thing is way over played. WE keep thinking thats why players come. Is it why they don’t leave?

Depth. Is Thibs uncreative? Are the really good coaches really creative after success with a formula they have high conviction with? They stick to their ways and taskmaster until the team executes. Did Thibs create this roster? With Grimes coming on at the 2, Reddish has no entry at the moment. The notion is if we don’t win of three games then “Why not experiment”. Is that what the really good coaches do? “Experiment?”

Im not coming with answers as some of you have taken to offer in other threads. I don’t fancy myself as one to out think Thibs nor use the benefit of hindsight to justify some moves.

I saw EF sit and Grimes finish last night. Im seeing a change in Randle with more RJ in charge. Im seeing IQ finishing the game but not executing. I saw Obi play more last night down the stretch. I’d say these are changes over the course of a season and him using depth. We saw him pull Kemba after 20 games. That was radical. Most of what he does is adjustments. Call it change.

The results dont back up my thesis but thats ok. Im not the coach. Im just observing.

100%

I do think Fournier is more of a system player. I think he has gotten after Randle about his type of play and that's another reason why Randle is grumpy and Thibs has stuck with him even though he has been underwhelming at time.

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:ITs plausible that Randle has been on trade talk. The reality of Fans turning on Thibs and Randle is a demonstration of impatience by a frustrated fan base. It really does not factor on Leons construction.
Lets be real, Randle skill set coveted by other teams? If so it should be measured. Im ok with that.
Guessing at why randle is so salty is a good exercise for us. Many theories. Mine is he is adapting to his ball movement development and decison making. For EF and RJ to succeed, and the team to succeed he has to do this. Maybe thats what I see in his hesitancy at times. He is moving the ball a lot more!

The CAA and KEntucky thing is way over played. WE keep thinking thats why players come. Is it why they don’t leave?

Depth. Is Thibs uncreative? Are the really good coaches really creative after success with a formula they have high conviction with? They stick to their ways and taskmaster until the team executes. Did Thibs create this roster? With Grimes coming on at the 2, Reddish has no entry at the moment. The notion is if we don’t win of three games then “Why not experiment”. Is that what the really good coaches do? “Experiment?”

Im not coming with answers as some of you have taken to offer in other threads. I don’t fancy myself as one to out think Thibs nor use the benefit of hindsight to justify some moves.

I saw EF sit and Grimes finish last night. Im seeing a change in Randle with more RJ in charge. Im seeing IQ finishing the game but not executing. I saw Obi play more last night down the stretch. I’d say these are changes over the course of a season and him using depth. We saw him pull Kemba after 20 games. That was radical. Most of what he does is adjustments. Call it change.

The results dont back up my thesis but thats ok. Im not the coach. Im just observing.

100%

I do think Fournier is more of a system player. I think he has gotten after Randle about his type of play and that's why Randle is grumpy and Thibs has stuck with him even though he has been underwhelming at time.

Martin, you are looking at emotions and reactions. perhaps Im looking at it from Thibs is asking Randle to execute and Randle is frustrated (grumpy). Jules can do it but it takes time. The contact he was given to me factors in not a superstar salary (cornerstone) but a foundational piece. That Randle is not having an easy time instinctively. its taking longer. I see thee effort. I might also see the confusion and subsequent frustration born from that.

Randles beef earlier this season was chemistry. EF was not making his cuts correctly and messing up Randles timing. That timing BTW was not down pat either. It seems to be working a bit better and EF is getting better looks. Since Randle is the Point Forward some of that is on him. Then there is the setting up RJ for success. All this might aggregate into Randle frustration with himself and what he is being asked to do. It could very well been disccussed as a prerequisite to this contract. That the knicks vision for him at that money and Randle had to agree.

Lets face it, all we have is what is the teams trying to do and are they executing.
In Phil Jax book about his time in LA he dissected why they won some years and not others. He took blame, and often shouldered some on Kobe for not executing his vision or installing his own for that year. Is randle really stubborn? I don’t know. Seems like he got the security and signed on. Otherwise he could have gone free agent.