PassTheBall wrote:This is not only about the players. It’s about the system. We play like shyt. Terrible offense and defensive execution. Very Knicks-like even with a COY at the helm instead of the Fizdales. This team might be cursed.

I don’t believe in curses. If that’s the case why was we successful last year? Leon rose messed up in the off season. Yes Payton had to go and we lost bullock. But we never replaced the positives they provided. We only focused on their negatives and thought Kemba and Fournier will off set their negatives and we will be better. That worked on my Xbox. In reality Payton and other provided something that worked. We lost that something. Penetration into the paint is a huge positive that Payton provided. I don’t care if he missed every layup or can’t shoot. That alone is missing in Kemba and Fournier. He would look Randle off and do his own thing. That’s also missing. We defer to Randle too much. See what the players did right that are no longer here and replace that. It’s not difficult. Bullock is a true catch and shoot player. The ball was in his hands for .2 seconds and it was gone. Fournier and Kemba need that rhythm dribble to get going. That’s a major conflict with the 2 players that Thibs rides every game in Randle and RJ. So obviously their game will be impacted by that as we’ve seen all year when our starters are healthy. Grimes can be that catch and shoot player. As far as penetrating the paint, rose can be that player but he’s not reliable health wise. Deuce can be that player, but he struggles with that as well. Still a better option to me than what we have now.

Levert would be a target. He’s a big PG that can penetrate the paint and play defense similar to what Payton provided. Defense length and penetration. Sounds a little sexual but u get my point. No homo

ESOMKnicks wrote:I have hated how since last year we have chosen the way of mediocrity, looking for a gradual improvement driven by our young roster maturing while having some capacity for a blockbuster trade. I would have preferred to tank last season. But our path has been set, and the worst thing would be to blow it all up and start over again, without giving it a chance to play out for another couple of years. There is no way we will get equal or better value back for any of our players right now, so might as well play the hand we have been dealt.

The best thing to do is keep the young players and try to dump all the players signed this off-season

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Two games under .500 and then blow it up?
Not like we a 23 game winnig team. We trendig to 41-41 give or take.
One seaosn we good and now mediocrity is above some of you?
Then what, blow it up and among the smolding ashes we have picks?
Dolan protests to sell the team. He won’t.
Because its January and 2 games under .500? If last year did not happen, we’d be celebrating.
Phuckig pussies some of you are! Take a break for a few games. Relax.

Agree. We’re 22-24 people are acting like we’re 10-36

Knicks need to call up McBride to play pg. leave Burks and IQ at the 2 where they freakin belong and Randle and RJ need to start making free throws

McBride not the answer either. Lets not get carried away.
Kemba is not the problem, but he is not the solution.
Randle is really struggling. Dig the passing, dig the emotion, but he needs a release. Dude jsut had a kid. I know it takes a while before the mrs. Is back in the swing of things. Jules needs some? LOL.
Thbs can try a lot of things. The pieces jsut don’t fit this year.

You lost me. If Kemba not the problem or solution than why not play deuce??? I’m lost

Im not into the blow it up and since we just mediocrity bound why bother. My take is with Fiz/miller we sucked, then we passed the whole .500 mediocrity becuase we finished 20-10 last season and at or near .500 half way thru we fans are sucking the media panic thing that we broken and we need to rid our selves of the players but thinking that itself will cure it. Never that simple.

Kemba vs. Minny had a good game but not in the home stretch. We miss Rose here. Him and EF got us back in teh game and the lead but could not sustain it.

Thoughts of RJ being a problem is over done. He is 21 and his bad gmes are now better than his bad games previously. His good games are better than his previous good games.

Randle is gets all the optics as he is the alpha. Simply put its a role over his head but for now RJ is not the one yet, and since we have no clear path to one we are dispondent? Perhaps.

McBride in My opinion is not playing well enough to experiment with. I get “well if you think we can lose with kemba, why not lose with Mcbride and at least develop him more”. Thats not entirely fair because Kemba still gives us a better shot and we were built for Drose to close if kemba got tired. Im seeing RJ develop and penetrate by playmaking more an more. He is making mistakes and perhaps HE is the one we are and have been giving the ball to and think its ok to lose but develop? Maybe thats part of it. Thats why he has been in a position to make stupid passes at critical parts of the game? He has been clutch also at times.
He is making shots in traffic more so as the season goes on. He is inching his way closer and closer to that high ceiling. Can a team do that then bring in a “Deuce” at the same time? Maybe. Are we not doing this with second year IQ whose future depends on playmaking?

Burks is like much of the knicks. Not consistant. He does well. Last night too little too late but there was a comeback of sorts.

In my opinon Randle is passing more and very well but are hyper focused on his attitude and pace. His shot is not as it was last year. Thats a reason to “dump him” and start over? And by starting over we going to 20 win starphuch tank mode of losing and thinking draft choices make us feel better?

we got better on paper this year but so did a half dozen other teams in the east.
EF running into Randles stomach was a metaphor for the season. We want to blame one for it but its chemistry.
It looked really bad!

Reasons to be cheerful: Griimes and very much the last two weeks of MitchRob!
RJ is having a statistical good January.
Derrick Rose is a really good player and we miss him.
Reddish should bring some pace and athletic quickness to both sides of the ball. Whose minutes does he take?

Randle, Fournier and Walker to Lakers

Westbrook to Knicks

Clears up our roster log jam, our cap for 2023 and he is technically a PG and can break defenses down. He well gives 100% effort every game. Maybe this isn’t so crazy after all

Chandler wrote:

Rookie wrote:I can’t stop wondering how much this team misses Mike Woodson. The roster is mostly the same as last year.

I see it more as missing Rose.

Team needs to play the full 48. Stop complaining to refs when the ball is live. No loafing around. If you can’t hustle back on D or move w urgency on O sit on the bench. Hit free throws.

And toughen up. We have a number of guys acting like pussies julius being exhibit A.

I can get behind this. I almost forgot he is still on the team

I’m looking at the little things, and maybe our approach to what impacts team chemistry is different. How I look at a players defensive impact on the team is different, especially for PGs and Centers. You need a stopper on penetration and a rim protector. How a defensive PG can improve EF defensive impact and energy. How in the long run, if you think deuce is the future, it’s a no brainer. But if you don’t think he’s the future then you say he’s not ready and roll with kemba. So because we disagree on some of those bases, our strategy moving forward will be slightly different.

Kemba to me will be impactful in the playoffs. But if his impact reduces Randle and or RJs impact, it’s null in void. Thibs will continue to ride Randle and RJ heavy. So if we both agree to not blow it up right now, then to me the best way to impact this team that’s driven by those two heavy minutes players, is to change the PG position. Personally I never liked Kemba in his prime, as far as team basketball perspective. That’s because I value 2 way players higher than undersized shooting guards that needs to score to impact the game. So imagine how I feel about Kemba now who’s an older version of someone I didn’t like when he was young.

Deuce is what I like in a PG for this team. Minus the height and size issue, he reminds me of Charlie ward type. Play tough defense on his man. Strong enough to guard bigger players. Both have a football background and mentality which means they have toughness. They get bumped around and don’t complain to refs when someone taps their arm. And deuce is the future while Kemba is the past. Plus with the way the team is structured we are going no where fast. Say we play deuce, and he craps on the team. I believe we still win the same amount of games. Barely make the playoffs or barely mis the playoffs. Right now we are out. Come next season we now have nba footage more than 3 starts, to study and see if deuce is really a future player or off season trade bait.

Or

Deuce comes in and spreads his toughness and energy into a defensive that’s lacking a defensive leader at the point of attack. We barely make the playoffs. And come next season, deuce now has nba and playoff experience. He could be that missing link. He could be a cheaper version of 20mil dollar Brunson. Now you can put your money elsewhere at other positions and ride his rookie contract.

I really don’t see any risks with playing deuce instead of kemba. But I see a lot of risks the other way around. What I hate is to have the answer at PG sitting on the bench. An answer the franchise been waiting for for decades. Just to see him blossom somewhere else because we sent him packing in a block buster trade. That’s all.

Kemba is a great one on one Player. He’s also this best seasoned PG on the roster. I get all that. But he’s not the future and we suck currently. And PG is one of the ways to change a teams culture. Even IQ has proven that. He’s just not a PG. deuce was a starting PG in college under a great respected coach. Release the deuce. We have other problems to focus on than kemba vs deuce. But that’s a minor change without blowing it up. Or trade Kemba for a PG with Payton’s slashing skills like levert. But we gotta do something for the present and the future. Doing nothing is not the answer.

Call the kings before someone else does. This is ****ing embarrassing. He’s not a top 50 player. He needs to get the **** out.

Home losses to Charlotte, Minnesota and NO. The mvp of last year was rose, it’s becoming very clear.

We have more problems than just Julius playing badly at times.

I think we should rebuild the team — build a bigger team this time around like the cavs or raptors( bucks too)Don’t ever rely on injured vets again unless it’s for a stretch run off the bench.( like d Rose last year)
Don’t be afraid to make major changes here. We’re of course gonna believe can reddish will change all. Woes next Not sure dat will happen

blkexec wrote:Nalod….I hear you and understand your point, but I’m not looking at Kembas offense and how he’s producing individually. Of course Kemba is better and he can definitely help us win some games, no doubt.

I’m looking at the little things, and maybe our approach to what impacts team chemistry is different. How I look at a players defensive impact on the team is different, especially for PGs and Centers. You need a stopper on penetration and a rim protector. How a defensive PG can improve EF defensive impact and energy. How in the long run, if you think deuce is the future, it’s a no brainer. But if you don’t think he’s the future then you say he’s not ready and roll with kemba. So because we disagree on some of those bases, our strategy moving forward will be slightly different.

Kemba to me will be impactful in the playoffs. But if his impact reduces Randle and or RJs impact, it’s null in void. Thibs will continue to ride Randle and RJ heavy. So if we both agree to not blow it up right now, then to me the best way to impact this team that’s driven by those two heavy minutes players, is to change the PG position. Personally I never liked Kemba in his prime, as far as team basketball perspective. That’s because I value 2 way players higher than undersized shooting guards that needs to score to impact the game. So imagine how I feel about Kemba now who’s an older version of someone I didn’t like when he was young.

Deuce is what I like in a PG for this team. Minus the height and size issue, he reminds me of Charlie ward type. Play tough defense on his man. Strong enough to guard bigger players. Both have a football background and mentality which means they have toughness. They get bumped around and don’t complain to refs when someone taps their arm. And deuce is the future while Kemba is the past. Plus with the way the team is structured we are going no where fast. Say we play deuce, and he craps on the team. I believe we still win the same amount of games. Barely make the playoffs or barely mis the playoffs. Right now we are out. Come next season we now have nba footage more than 3 starts, to study and see if deuce is really a future player or off season trade bait.

Or

Deuce comes in and spreads his toughness and energy into a defensive that’s lacking a defensive leader at the point of attack. We barely make the playoffs. And come next season, deuce now has nba and playoff experience. He could be that missing link. He could be a cheaper version of 20mil dollar Brunson. Now you can put your money elsewhere at other positions and ride his rookie contract.

I really don’t see any risks with playing deuce instead of kemba. But I see a lot of risks the other way around. What I hate is to have the answer at PG sitting on the bench. An answer the franchise been waiting for for decades. Just to see him blossom somewhere else because we sent him packing in a block buster trade. That’s all.

Kemba is a great one on one Player. He’s also this best seasoned PG on the roster. I get all that. But he’s not the future and we suck currently. And PG is one of the ways to change a teams culture. Even IQ has proven that. He’s just not a PG. deuce was a starting PG in college under a great respected coach. Release the deuce. We have other problems to focus on than kemba vs deuce. But that’s a minor change without blowing it up. Or trade Kemba for a PG with Payton’s slashing skills like levert. But we gotta do something for the present and the future. Doing nothing is not the answer.

its a good take and you could be right. Question is how much experimenting is when itstolerable and at what cost? I would think all of Bryant, Payne and Thibs would see when Deuce is close or not.
Its not a question of doing someting or not, its when to do it also. prior to this 3 game losing it was coming together a bit.

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