HofstraBBall wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

NYStateOfMind wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Elf looked amazing on the bench in his warmup suit last night

Still did better than Kemba. Elf +/- of 0 and Kemba -13. A rare addition by subtraction scenario.

Nalod wrote:Simple minds offer simple thoughts and one liners.
Elf looked great on the bench. Lets put this in perspective, Elf started 63 games of 72 and with all the goodness of Randle, thibs, etc, was good enough to help the team win 10 games over .500 and the 4th seed. Now he sits as 3rd string on a chip contending team.
shows how far was still have to go and how good PHX is. Simple mind thinks him on the bench elevates us. Nope.
No reason to **** on Elf. We got beat by a very superior team last night.

Also their second unit was awesome. So is ours. Watching other teams is a revelation sometimes.

Elf was bought here to be the back up. In two years nobody could outplay him until Rose hit his stride and one started and the other finished. Was ELF the reason we won last year? Not really, but he did not hurt us. He was good enough.
Kemba is an issue for us that needs to be solved. I can’t say what it is but my hope is we figure it out.

I know most of us are disappointed thus far. Its Legit. Elf is not the answer, but he was not the problem either.

Elf blows. He and DSJ will look great in China together in 2 years

No one outside of this messageboard thinks Elfrid Payton is anything other than a borderline 12th man

Elf has the record for being our best PG since 2014. Them are the facts! No matter how you try to erase them. For instance, let's say we compare him to hmmm I don't know, Frank, his winning percentage is like 3000% better. Think Elf will always have a home in the NBA. Decent defense and can run an offense. Frankie may as well due to his defense, unless he gets tired of riding the third-string PG role. DSJR will probably be in China. Do not think anyone is claiming Elf should have been kept. Just pointing out that he was not as bad as some may claim.
Still confident that Kemba will fit in and makes us better.

Elf won the tallest midget contest yay. We were 26 games under .500 the year before with him as our full time pg. we won the following season in spite of him and the playoffs certainly showed that

Elf is lucky he’s even still in the nba

LOL @ this thread.

ramtour420 wrote:One thing I remember from Elf is that one "f$ck you" great game he had after being benched initially. His motivation is very questionable

Another thing I remember about Elf is how bad Knicks fans disliked his ass and how often he was trashed by our NY fan base.

Thibs was the reason why we were #1 D. COY. Brought a culture. Elf? Lol. How was our Defense the year before? Guy was a waste.

Kemba Walker? 4x All-Star previous 5 years? And our fan base is already giving him the Elf treatment? 1st year? Only 20 games in? And harping over some +/- stat when our starters as a team haven't gelled yet?

It's called Chemistry. Something we'll love about Kemva @ PG come....

Playoff time. Kemba will impact.

You'll see. And Elf won't be "missed" anymore lol

• What was our 2019-2020 record with Elf and no Thibs? Hah.

• what was our record last year 20 games in with Elf and no Kemba? Another hah moment.

Learn to read people, no one wants nor suggested Elfrid was any good as a starter other than defense nor that he was Knicks starter material. CASE CLOSED.

Philc1 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:One thing I remember from Elf is that one "f$ck you" great game he had after being benched initially. His motivation is very questionable

Another thing I remember about Elf is how bad Knicks fans disliked his ass and how often he was trashed by our NY fan base.

Thibs was the reason why we were #1 D. COY. Brought a culture. Elf? Lol. How was our Defense the year before? Guy was a waste.

Kemba Walker? 4x All-Star previous 5 years? And our fan base is already giving him the Elf treatment? 1st year? Only 20 games in? And harping over some +/- stat when our starters as a team haven't gelled yet?

It's called Chemistry. Something we'll love about Kemva @ PG come....

Playoff time. Kemba will impact.

You'll see. And Elf won't be "missed" anymore lol

• What was our 2019-2020 record with Elf and no Thibs? Hah.

• what was our record last year 20 games in with Elf and no Kemba? Another hah moment.

You know how some idiot Jets fans baselessly credit Mangini with the 2 AFCG runs in 2009-2010? Some knicks fans are becoming Elf revionist historians.

Philc1 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:One thing I remember from Elf is that one "f$ck you" great game he had after being benched initially. His motivation is very questionable

Another thing I remember about Elf is how bad Knicks fans disliked his ass and how often he was trashed by our NY fan base.

Thibs was the reason why we were #1 D. COY. Brought a culture. Elf? Lol. How was our Defense the year before? Guy was a waste.

Kemba Walker? 4x All-Star previous 5 years? And our fan base is already giving him the Elf treatment? 1st year? Only 20 games in? And harping over some +/- stat when our starters as a team haven't gelled yet?

It's called Chemistry. Something we'll love about Kemva @ PG come....

Playoff time. Kemba will impact.

You'll see. And Elf won't be "missed" anymore lol

• What was our 2019-2020 record with Elf and no Thibs? Hah.

• what was our record last year 20 games in with Elf and no Kemba? Another hah moment.

You know how some idiot Jets fans baselessly credit Mangini with the 2 AFCG runs in 2009-2010? Some knicks fans are becoming Elf revionist historians.

Well, I'm an idiot Giants fan. Not sure if that makes any difference.

As far as ELF goes, I don't mind being the only person to say ELF had a lot of positive impacts on this team. He just needed certain players around him, to cover his weaknesses. But attacking the rim and scoring in the paint and playing solid defense (or above average) was all good stuff that ELF provided. Right now, ELF and Kemba are both playing at the same level (ON THE BENCH). But just wanted to stickup for ELF, who's been given a bad rap here in NY.

But as we move on, I hope the same fans that hate on ELF, takes it easy on Burks, who's not a natural PG and will do ELF like PG mistakes. But I like Burks defense and scoring ability. Much needed addition to the Starting lineup. And glad we left the second unit key players alone. IQ and Obi are growing right in front of our eyes. This was also perfect timing with Brooklyn coming up. We needed this extra offense and defensive jolt.

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:One thing I remember from Elf is that one "f$ck you" great game he had after being benched initially. His motivation is very questionable

Another thing I remember about Elf is how bad Knicks fans disliked his ass and how often he was trashed by our NY fan base.

Thibs was the reason why we were #1 D. COY. Brought a culture. Elf? Lol. How was our Defense the year before? Guy was a waste.

Kemba Walker? 4x All-Star previous 5 years? And our fan base is already giving him the Elf treatment? 1st year? Only 20 games in? And harping over some +/- stat when our starters as a team haven't gelled yet?

It's called Chemistry. Something we'll love about Kemva @ PG come....

Playoff time. Kemba will impact.

You'll see. And Elf won't be "missed" anymore lol

• What was our 2019-2020 record with Elf and no Thibs? Hah.

• what was our record last year 20 games in with Elf and no Kemba? Another hah moment.

You know how some idiot Jets fans baselessly credit Mangini with the 2 AFCG runs in 2009-2010? Some knicks fans are becoming Elf revionist historians.

Well, I'm an idiot Giants fan. Not sure if that makes any difference.

As far as ELF goes, I don't mind being the only person to say ELF had a lot of positive impacts on this team. He just needed certain players around him, to cover his weaknesses. But attacking the rim and scoring in the paint and playing solid defense (or above average) was all good stuff that ELF provided. Right now, ELF and Kemba are both playing at the same level (ON THE BENCH). But just wanted to stickup for ELF, who's been given a bad rap here in NY.

But as we move on, I hope the same fans that hate on ELF, takes it easy on Burks, who's not a natural PG and will do ELF like PG mistakes. But I like Burks defense and scoring ability. Much needed addition to the Starting lineup. And glad we left the second unit key players alone. IQ and Obi are growing right in front of our eyes. This was also perfect timing with Brooklyn coming up. We needed this extra offense and defensive jolt.

Can't agree with you on most the positives you listed for Elf, especially the part where you said scoring in the paint. But he was decent on defense and he could soak up minutes. Fortunately, I don't see Burks taking up a traditional playmaking role and he does improve spacing. This also means that we may see a lot more "point Randle."

You can disagree all you want, but ELF was one of the best PGs or players with the ability to drive to the hoop. Stats don’t lie. ELF is also long and tall which is great for switching on defense. Burks fills that void. Where Burks and ELF is different is shooting. Basically thibs got a scoring and shooting version of ELF. Not sure why people deny what ELF provided. I wanted him traded as well, but I’m not going to ignore the positives. And what thibs likes is what ELF provides, regardless what hungry knick fan want or think. Burks is a better version. Tall guard who attacks the rim like ELF with dribble drives….a disruptor on defense like ELF and Bullock and a catch and shoot player like Bullock.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DRIVES&dir=1

knicks1248 wrote:Lets not forget that when Rose got the start at PG for the last 3 PO games against the hawks, we lost them all, and Rose production dropped off considerable.

The knicks will still struggle with Burks as long as you have a Center the stands in the paint like a lamp post, and rolls to the basket on every single PnR.

Elf started the first game and we lost. We won game 2 with Elf starting and he played all of 5 minutes and scored a point. You really think Elf being yanked from the lineup made any difference in the series?

blkexec wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:One thing I remember from Elf is that one "f$ck you" great game he had after being benched initially. His motivation is very questionable

Another thing I remember about Elf is how bad Knicks fans disliked his ass and how often he was trashed by our NY fan base.

Thibs was the reason why we were #1 D. COY. Brought a culture. Elf? Lol. How was our Defense the year before? Guy was a waste.

Kemba Walker? 4x All-Star previous 5 years? And our fan base is already giving him the Elf treatment? 1st year? Only 20 games in? And harping over some +/- stat when our starters as a team haven't gelled yet?

It's called Chemistry. Something we'll love about Kemva @ PG come....

Playoff time. Kemba will impact.

You'll see. And Elf won't be "missed" anymore lol

• What was our 2019-2020 record with Elf and no Thibs? Hah.

• what was our record last year 20 games in with Elf and no Kemba? Another hah moment.

You know how some idiot Jets fans baselessly credit Mangini with the 2 AFCG runs in 2009-2010? Some knicks fans are becoming Elf revionist historians.

Well, I'm an idiot Giants fan. Not sure if that makes any difference.

As far as ELF goes, I don't mind being the only person to say ELF had a lot of positive impacts on this team. He just needed certain players around him, to cover his weaknesses. But attacking the rim and scoring in the paint and playing solid defense (or above average) was all good stuff that ELF provided. Right now, ELF and Kemba are both playing at the same level (ON THE BENCH). But just wanted to stickup for ELF, who's been given a bad rap here in NY.

But as we move on, I hope the same fans that hate on ELF, takes it easy on Burks, who's not a natural PG and will do ELF like PG mistakes. But I like Burks defense and scoring ability. Much needed addition to the Starting lineup. And glad we left the second unit key players alone. IQ and Obi are growing right in front of our eyes. This was also perfect timing with Brooklyn coming up. We needed this extra offense and defensive jolt.

Can't agree with you on most the positives you listed for Elf, especially the part where you said scoring in the paint. But he was decent on defense and he could soak up minutes. Fortunately, I don't see Burks taking up a traditional playmaking role and he does improve spacing. This also means that we may see a lot more "point Randle."

You can disagree all you want, but ELF was one of the best PGs or players with the ability to drive to the hoop. Stats don’t lie. ELF is also long and tall which is great for switching on defense. Burks fills that void. Where Burks and ELF is different is shooting. Basically thibs got a scoring and shooting version of ELF. Not sure why people deny what ELF provided. I wanted him traded as well, but I’m not going to ignore the positives. And what thibs likes is what ELF provides, regardless what hungry knick fan want or think. Burks is a better version. Tall guard who attacks the rim like ELF with dribble drives….a disruptor on defense like ELF and Bullock and a catch and shoot player like Bullock.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=DRIVES&dir=1

knicks1248 wrote:Lets not forget that when Rose got the start at PG for the last 3 PO games against the hawks, we lost them all, and Rose production dropped off considerable.

The knicks will still struggle with Burks as long as you have a Center the stands in the paint like a lamp post,and rolls to the basket on every single PnR.

That’s because Rose is old now and can’t play full time minutes anymore. Elf was so horrible in game 1 Thibs was forced to essentially bench him the rest of the series because he was so bad

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:The only proof anyone needs is Elf started 63 of 72 games and we were 10 games over .500.
Nobody said he was the reason for the turnaround but he obviously bought "enough" to the floor and played his role good enough.
Randle, ascent, RJ's ascent and ROSE were the big contributors. Nobody says otherwise.
That he made 8mm is first year, with a team option. WE denied him that and got no substantial offers. He returned at 4.7mm. He was given 2.5m I believe by PHX. We did not want him back.
He is an insurance policy for a championship contending team that is on a 14 game win streak.
That does not bode well for any player and it no stroke of intelligence to say his career is on the down swing.
But what did the knicks do last season and how much did he play? Not what is his future and that values what he did last season.

And what about the previous season when we were 25 games under .500 with Elf?

The season where nobody could supplant him as the starter? Where Frank, then dennis were to take the job and never did? Randle was not great. Mitch was raw, etc etc.

For the 100th time, nobody said he did a great job. He sucked less. He was bought back with a pay cut.
What don’t you get? The abilty to speak more than one sentence at time

The Knicks won last season in spite of Elf. The rest of the roster played very well against a schedule of teams still gassed from Lebron’s stupid bubble tourney. He was Baker Mayfield handing the ball off to Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt 30 times a game with an all world offensive line and a great defense. Actually, Baker is 100x better at football than Elf is at basketball and I think Baker is overrated as hell and isn’t good