franco12 wrote:realistically, we should move Rose into the starting line up. I might also move Burks in as well.

No Rose has great chemistry with unit 2. Id rather use IQ--hes not a pure PG and while an erratic shooter he brings energy and defense that Kemba does not. This might also help Julius cut down on the iso fall away BS and get him back to moving the ball.

I think Kemba might be used better in unit 2 or as injury step in. He cant play every game anyway.

BRIGGS wrote:

franco12 wrote:realistically, we should move Rose into the starting line up. I might also move Burks in as well.

No Rose has great chemistry with unit 2. Id rather use IQ--hes not a pure PG and while an erratic shooter he brings energy and defense that Kemba does not. This might also help Julius cut down on the iso fall away BS and get him back to moving the ball.

I think Kemba might be used better in unit 2 or as injury step in. He cant play every game anyway.

Starting IQ is the logical continuation of things. I thought it would be a lot more gradual tho.

The “Last season Mentality” thing is not relevant. We did not have Rose unitl february and he was a big banged up for bit. His best games came in the second half of the season for the most part. Logically he should start. But intellectually Thibs kind of knows his bench and closing out was of great value.

Part of this “problem” is a combo of many things. Kemba, injuries to Mitch and Noel, and how to emerge RJ while Randle falls into a more natural role a bit more de-emphasized but very valuable role. Add Obi’s emergence and the optics of how that looks makes for a grand issue that fans think they can solve. Its more the little things in some levels of concentrations. Not one suggestion would solve this riddle.

Roster wise the team is a bit imbalanced at the moment. Not sure where adding grimes is a valid choice other than speculation.

As a fan, if it works, what ever it is im good. All the suggestions are done out of love even is they are Cray Cray.

Clean wrote:If I were the coach I would want to experiment with the rotation to see if different combinations can unlock some of the struggling players. We have to keep Rose and Obi together. Rose helps to enhance Obi. I am starting to notice Quick doing this for Obi some to. Noel has to start when he is healthy. He is our best defending big and the starters need as much defense as they can get. They are literally the worse defenders in league history.

The hard decisions come at the PG/SG/SF spot. Kemba has been trash but we need to keep Rose with Obi and Thibs will never give McBride any time. I am not saying McBride will be an allstar but lets give him a few minutes to see what he has when others are clearly out of it. Kemba has to be on a short leash. If he looks like he is having an off night or goes cold sub him. His defense is too bad to allow him to play through a slump. RJ is best in transition. The problem is our best transition players are all on the bench. So would we be able to get more out of RJ if he was on the bench? We need to break up EF and Kemba because their Defense is too bad to play both at the same time. How would Burks looks replacing EF as a starter? Could Grimes help as a starter but just given short time to limit the EF/Kemba pairing some? So many questions that we will never have answers to because we never try anything different. I really wanted to give my ideas on what our best rotation would be but there are just too many unknowns since we just went with one thing and stuck with it.

Move Rose, IQ & Obi into the starting line up with Randle and RJ.

Burks, Kemba, Fournier & Gibson are off the bench. If Kemba is awful, go with IQ, Burks & Rose as your PG, maybe sneak in Grimes.

Pepper wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm giving this unit until Christmas. I really do not wanna mess with our bench cause it's one of the best in the league and our biggest strength. I also wanna give Kemba and Fournier every opportunity. Of course that can easily change if we fall under .500 and these type of losses continue.

Pretty much on board with this. Let's not forget that some of the losses aren't just Kemba and Fournier slumping but (despite his numbers) Randle not playing up to his potential and the team as a whole playing inconsistent defense.

And don't forget RJ, who is across the board not playing up to last year stats

ramtour420 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Clean wrote:If I were the coach I would want to experiment with the rotation to see if different combinations can unlock some of the struggling players. We have to keep Rose and Obi together. Rose helps to enhance Obi. I am starting to notice Quick doing this for Obi some to. Noel has to start when he is healthy. He is our best defending big and the starters need as much defense as they can get. They are literally the worse defenders in league history.

The hard decisions come at the PG/SG/SF spot. Kemba has been trash but we need to keep Rose with Obi and Thibs will never give McBride any time. I am not saying McBride will be an allstar but lets give him a few minutes to see what he has when others are clearly out of it. Kemba has to be on a short leash. If he looks like he is having an off night or goes cold sub him. His defense is too bad to allow him to play through a slump. RJ is best in transition. The problem is our best transition players are all on the bench. So would we be able to get more out of RJ if he was on the bench? We need to break up EF and Kemba because their Defense is too bad to play both at the same time. How would Burks looks replacing EF as a starter? Could Grimes help as a starter but just given short time to limit the EF/Kemba pairing some? So many questions that we will never have answers to because we never try anything different. I really wanted to give my ideas on what our best rotation would be but there are just too many unknowns since we just went with one thing and stuck with it.

Move Rose, IQ & Obi into the starting line up with Randle and RJ.

Burks, Kemba, Fournier & Gibson are off the bench. If Kemba is awful, go with IQ, Burks & Rose as your PG, maybe sneak in Grimes.

Rose, IQ and Obi in the starting lineup does not make our D much better if at all. We don't have any guards on the team that consistently play D and that's what we need in the SL. That is except our rookies who are both great defensively and can shoot as well. My solution would be to break up Walker and EF backcourt by replacing one of them with Grimes or McBride

If you make the team better, you should play even if you are a Rookie. Just ask Toppin and Quickly. If veterans aren’t getting it done, next man up.

McBride and Grimes would replace what we lost with EP and Bullock and it will never happen. If the starters start slow pull Walker and Fournier and replace them with Deuce and Grimes. Keep the bench together. Randle and Robinson don’t look like they can play together.

Last year I thought it was Elf freezing Barrett out but I’m not sure it’s not Randle who has the down low beef with RJ becoming the star. Bottom line s neither of them have enough elite athleticism to carry a team. They are both blue collar lunch pail guys. When I watched Randle play at the Allstar game, he looked like he didn’t even belong on the same court as those guys. He’s a very good player, but elite, no. We will never be able to play with pace with Randle and Mitch on the floor together. Flex Mitch has lost a step or two and Randle doesn’t run or move without the ball. I’d say move Randle to center but he’s not a great rebounder or rim protector and sets ****ty screens. Also, do you really want your center dribbling the air out of the ball

Bottom line, we need a trade to fix this mess.

Rookie wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Clean wrote:If I were the coach I would want to experiment with the rotation to see if different combinations can unlock some of the struggling players. We have to keep Rose and Obi together. Rose helps to enhance Obi. I am starting to notice Quick doing this for Obi some to. Noel has to start when he is healthy. He is our best defending big and the starters need as much defense as they can get. They are literally the worse defenders in league history.

The hard decisions come at the PG/SG/SF spot. Kemba has been trash but we need to keep Rose with Obi and Thibs will never give McBride any time. I am not saying McBride will be an allstar but lets give him a few minutes to see what he has when others are clearly out of it. Kemba has to be on a short leash. If he looks like he is having an off night or goes cold sub him. His defense is too bad to allow him to play through a slump. RJ is best in transition. The problem is our best transition players are all on the bench. So would we be able to get more out of RJ if he was on the bench? We need to break up EF and Kemba because their Defense is too bad to play both at the same time. How would Burks looks replacing EF as a starter? Could Grimes help as a starter but just given short time to limit the EF/Kemba pairing some? So many questions that we will never have answers to because we never try anything different. I really wanted to give my ideas on what our best rotation would be but there are just too many unknowns since we just went with one thing and stuck with it.

Move Rose, IQ & Obi into the starting line up with Randle and RJ.

Burks, Kemba, Fournier & Gibson are off the bench. If Kemba is awful, go with IQ, Burks & Rose as your PG, maybe sneak in Grimes.

Rose, IQ and Obi in the starting lineup does not make our D much better if at all. We don't have any guards on the team that consistently play D and that's what we need in the SL. That is except our rookies who are both great defensively and can shoot as well. My solution would be to break up Walker and EF backcourt by replacing one of them with Grimes or McBride

If you make the team better, you should play even if you are a Rookie. Just ask Toppin and Quickly. If veterans aren’t getting it done, next man up.

McBride and Grimes would replace what we lost with EP and Bullock and it will never happen. If the starters start slow pull Walker and Fournier and replace them with Deuce and Grimes. Keep the bench together. Randle and Robinson don’t look like they can play together.

Last year I thought it was Elf freezing Barrett out but I’m not sure it’s not Randle who has the down low beef with RJ becoming the star. Bottom line s neither of them have enough elite athleticism to carry a team. They are both blue collar lunch pail guys. When I watched Randle play at the Allstar game, he looked like he didn’t even belong on the same court as those guys. He’s a very good player, but elite, no. We will never be able to play with pace with Randle and Mitch on the floor together. Flex Mitch has lost a step or two and Randle doesn’t run or move without the ball. I’d say move Randle to center but he’s not a great rebounder or rim protector and sets ****ty screens. Also, do you really want your center dribbling the air out of the ball

Bottom line, we need a trade to fix this mess.

We don't need a trade, we need a better rotation, and better in game adjustments.

Your not benching Vets for rookies, especially starters, and we are not playing 12 guys, that will cause an even bigger problem.

Thibs needs to figure out if kemba is the number 1 ball handler or Randle.

This year, we added 3 new players into the starting lineup. EF, Kemba, Mitch. So to be honest, it was a trial and error starting 5. They never had a chance to build any kind of chemistry, like the second unit had all last season. and personally, I don't think those 5 fit together in todays NBA, and a change is needed or warranted. I don't see an easy fix. Starting IQ is a great idea and something I'm advocating, but that doesn't fix everything. Starting IQ, Rose and Obi is a nice talking point, but again....When you add 3 new players to a 5 man unit, you have to add players that know their roles and fit together. And the two players from last season's starting unit (RJ and Randle) also have to adjust to their role changes, due to the new players. Looks like roles wasn't clearly established or accepted so far. Or these guys simply don't fit together. It happens, just like married couples and divorces. Sometimes the divorce works out for the family....sometimes it doesn't. I think Thibs is handling it the way he should (now that the smoke of losing is clear). Not jumping to any quick fix solutions and trying to see if this starting 5 can organically build enough chemistry to turn this around, in this very, very short season so far, appears to be the best politically correct approach.

It's still early, but we are only a 3 game loosing streak away from panicking. Starting with these 3 home games, will determine a lot about this unit. All the pressure is on them and they know it. Including Thibs. He should be able to see who's adjusting, adapting....and who's still playing hero ball, going on Iso missions. Thibs needs to make better in game substitutions. So far, from what I've read, they are all saying the right things. Nobody is throwing anybody under the bus, which is a good sign.

EF did say we have to move the ball more and Randle / RJ might take that personal. Kemba as well, is a similar ball hog, but he's older and willing to change for the team, I'm sure. RJ and Randle are in their prime. RJ just starting. So it's going to be difficult for them to change now, after the success they had last year (without the new players), playing the same way, as far as they individual head down, ISO game play. As a team we look different for obvious reasons that I already mentioned. This also shows you the value in having defensive players (Elf Payton / Bullock) vs offensive players (Kemba / EF). Defense wins games when your offense stinks. We currently do not have a consistent offense or efficient offensive players. This year our offense and defense both stinks. When that happens, a college team can beat us.

Rose/Kemba
Quickley/Fournier
RJ/Burks
Obi/Randle
Randle/Mitch

I would go to a short bench until they yank themselves out of this

jskinny35 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Rookie wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Clean wrote:If I were the coach I would want to experiment with the rotation to see if different combinations can unlock some of the struggling players. We have to keep Rose and Obi together. Rose helps to enhance Obi. I am starting to notice Quick doing this for Obi some to. Noel has to start when he is healthy. He is our best defending big and the starters need as much defense as they can get. They are literally the worse defenders in league history.

The hard decisions come at the PG/SG/SF spot. Kemba has been trash but we need to keep Rose with Obi and Thibs will never give McBride any time. I am not saying McBride will be an allstar but lets give him a few minutes to see what he has when others are clearly out of it. Kemba has to be on a short leash. If he looks like he is having an off night or goes cold sub him. His defense is too bad to allow him to play through a slump. RJ is best in transition. The problem is our best transition players are all on the bench. So would we be able to get more out of RJ if he was on the bench? We need to break up EF and Kemba because their Defense is too bad to play both at the same time. How would Burks looks replacing EF as a starter? Could Grimes help as a starter but just given short time to limit the EF/Kemba pairing some? So many questions that we will never have answers to because we never try anything different. I really wanted to give my ideas on what our best rotation would be but there are just too many unknowns since we just went with one thing and stuck with it.

Move Rose, IQ & Obi into the starting line up with Randle and RJ.

Burks, Kemba, Fournier & Gibson are off the bench. If Kemba is awful, go with IQ, Burks & Rose as your PG, maybe sneak in Grimes.

Rose, IQ and Obi in the starting lineup does not make our D much better if at all. We don't have any guards on the team that consistently play D and that's what we need in the SL. That is except our rookies who are both great defensively and can shoot as well. My solution would be to break up Walker and EF backcourt by replacing one of them with Grimes or McBride

If you make the team better, you should play even if you are a Rookie. Just ask Toppin and Quickly. If veterans aren’t getting it done, next man up.

McBride and Grimes would replace what we lost with EP and Bullock and it will never happen. If the starters start slow pull Walker and Fournier and replace them with Deuce and Grimes. Keep the bench together. Randle and Robinson don’t look like they can play together.

Last year I thought it was Elf freezing Barrett out but I’m not sure it’s not Randle who has the down low beef with RJ becoming the star. Bottom line s neither of them have enough elite athleticism to carry a team. They are both blue collar lunch pail guys. When I watched Randle play at the Allstar game, he looked like he didn’t even belong on the same court as those guys. He’s a very good player, but elite, no. We will never be able to play with pace with Randle and Mitch on the floor together. Flex Mitch has lost a step or two and Randle doesn’t run or move without the ball. I’d say move Randle to center but he’s not a great rebounder or rim protector and sets ****ty screens. Also, do you really want your center dribbling the air out of the ball

Bottom line, we need a trade to fix this mess.

We don't need a trade, we need a better rotation, and better in game adjustments.

Your not benching Vets for rookies, especially starters, and we are not playing 12 guys, that will cause an even bigger problem.

Thibs needs to figure out if kemba is the number 1 ball handler or Randle.

I think we may need a trade and we should be able to know it once we can move players signed in the summer.

And right now, I'm open to trading anyone, including RJ and Mitchell.

I've been saying it and will keep saying - Randle is the one to move if we look for a trade. He has the most value, plays too much ISO ball for our offense and ultimately is very good (but not great). Nobody would offer us much for Mitch with his contract status and think it's too early to consider moving RJ as moving Randle may shift things for RJ. Yes, I'm RJ biased as he's younger, plays both sides and has improved incrementally every year. Question is what could trading Randle offer in return? He was an All-Star last year and puts up very good numbers. I could seem him being the piece that gets a team like Denver, LAC or Phx (back) into the Finals.

He can be a piece on any team if he figures out when to ISO and when to pass.

He played will last season, so asked yourself what changed

jskinny35 wrote:I don't fault Randle and think the change has largely been the new acquisitions... that said it's hard enough to field a complementary team around an ISO player that holds the ball a lot. If he were elite it would be easier but we're trying to surround him the way the Bucks surround Giannis. Difference is Giannis plays at a whole different level and the Bucks shooters are much better. I was big on keeping Bullock as we could have still resigned him and added Fournier. I also think RJ and Randle don't mesh well as they both command the ball - at least RJ makes his moves quicker. Plus - we could see what Toppin can actually bring (besides hustle/energy). Randle as the guy leads us down a limited road. I'd seriously consider moving Randle if there is a similarly productive player that we could acquire for him (eg Jerami Grant, Simmons, Lillard, etc).

Simmons is interesting…and Philly would love to have Randle for a player who doesn’t want to be there. But having Simmons and Mitch during a time when shooting is a valuable asset in todays small ball, would be difficult. If we had Turner at center, then I can see it working. But Mitch / Noel needs shooters around them. Otherwise the paint will be crowded and spacing will be limited.