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Knicks version Larry Johnson in today’s game
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fishmike
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9/16/2021  2:44 PM
Philc1 wrote:Last year’s Randle is very much Larry Johnson’s twin. Only thing is the nba was a half court league in the 90’s so LJ played SF most of his career. Randle can’t play SF in today’s spacing and pacing nba

this is actually pretty true... LJ's post game was spin until free which he did incredibly well as his quickness was impossible to hang with an of course he was strong as hell.
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technomaster
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9/16/2021  3:05 PM
I think the Knicks version of LJ would have had an upside of Draymond Green and a floor of a PJ Tucker/Crowder. Basically a glue guy that won't really hurt you on the floor because he was good on both ends, but there may be other players on the team that had more elite individual skills in any particular area.

Knick LJ was a good 2-way player - he didn't have any significant deficits, but also wasn't exceptional at anything either. His early career (pre-back injury Grandmama) explosiveness was a difference maker.


(Post-Knick Mase was better at that point - a legit point-forward, elite rebounder and defender. But perhaps not the same type of leader)

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Knixkik
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9/16/2021  5:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/16/2021  5:45 PM
shinmen wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Kemet wrote:INJURY PRONE Larry Johnson were a star in Charllotte and BUST in N.Y. !!!
We gave up a healthy Winning star Anthony Mason for a 5 yr Injury-Prone BUST Larry Johnson.
I dont recall Larry Johnson as a starter over Oakley, or Camby as a Knicks.

LJ was a full time starter with the Knicks until he retired. His first 2 years he played SF alongside Oakley and for his final 3 years he shifted to PF. Camby played some center but LJ started over him at PF. He wasn’t the same player as he was in Charlotte but he was far from a bust.

It's difficult to compare players from different eras. The defense was much tougher back then. Stephen Curry would be like his father and not a hall of famer if he had played in the 90's, that's not to say he is a bad player. The players today are not inherently better than the one from the previous era, they have the benefit of a more scientific approach to the game.
If LJ had played in today's NBA, he would have benefited from the same training, the same doctors. LJ was very athletic in Charlotte and shot reasonably well 3pts shots when it was not a crucial shot in the players arsenal. He brought what was needed to the team.

If you really re-watch games from the 90s the defense wasn’t tougher. More physical yes but less talented defenders. Help defense was non-existent and you didn’t have to guard people away from the basket like today. It was a simpler game. Look how much more talented Steph is than someone line mark price. He would run circles around players from that era. This narrative continues to amaze me. Outside of maybe each team’s best 3-4 players none of those other guys make it in the league today. Even the early 2000s. Imagine Shandon anderson, Howard eisley or Chris Dudley today ?
BigDaddyG
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9/16/2021  9:35 PM
Knixkik wrote:
shinmen wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Kemet wrote:INJURY PRONE Larry Johnson were a star in Charllotte and BUST in N.Y. !!!
We gave up a healthy Winning star Anthony Mason for a 5 yr Injury-Prone BUST Larry Johnson.
I dont recall Larry Johnson as a starter over Oakley, or Camby as a Knicks.

LJ was a full time starter with the Knicks until he retired. His first 2 years he played SF alongside Oakley and for his final 3 years he shifted to PF. Camby played some center but LJ started over him at PF. He wasn’t the same player as he was in Charlotte but he was far from a bust.

It's difficult to compare players from different eras. The defense was much tougher back then. Stephen Curry would be like his father and not a hall of famer if he had played in the 90's, that's not to say he is a bad player. The players today are not inherently better than the one from the previous era, they have the benefit of a more scientific approach to the game.
If LJ had played in today's NBA, he would have benefited from the same training, the same doctors. LJ was very athletic in Charlotte and shot reasonably well 3pts shots when it was not a crucial shot in the players arsenal. He brought what was needed to the team.

If you really re-watch games from the 90s the defense wasn’t tougher. More physical yes but less talented defenders. Help defense was non-existent and you didn’t have to guard people away from the basket like today. It was a simpler game. Look how much more talented Steph is than someone line mark price. He would run circles around players from that era. This narrative continues to amaze me. Outside of maybe each team’s best 3-4 players none of those other guys make it in the league today. Even the early 2000s. Imagine Shandon anderson, Howard eisley or Chris Dudley today ?


You can go the other way on this too. Imagine if Mark Price or Mahmoud Rauf had the free reign to bomb threes. How much more effective would Derrick Coleman be if he wasn't told to plant himself in the post. There were guys who were considered "tweeners" who didn't get a fair shake then who would thrive today. The gap isn't really so much with the athleticism, although I believe there maybe a bit of gap. It's in the strategy and mindset IMHO opinion. As for Shannon Anderson, I think he would blend in physically today. But the lack of a three-point shot would kill him. I'll also go out on a limb and say Karl Malone might struggle today and I think Barkley would definitely thrive.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Knixkik
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9/17/2021  12:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/17/2021  12:20 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
shinmen wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Kemet wrote:INJURY PRONE Larry Johnson were a star in Charllotte and BUST in N.Y. !!!
We gave up a healthy Winning star Anthony Mason for a 5 yr Injury-Prone BUST Larry Johnson.
I dont recall Larry Johnson as a starter over Oakley, or Camby as a Knicks.

LJ was a full time starter with the Knicks until he retired. His first 2 years he played SF alongside Oakley and for his final 3 years he shifted to PF. Camby played some center but LJ started over him at PF. He wasn’t the same player as he was in Charlotte but he was far from a bust.

It's difficult to compare players from different eras. The defense was much tougher back then. Stephen Curry would be like his father and not a hall of famer if he had played in the 90's, that's not to say he is a bad player. The players today are not inherently better than the one from the previous era, they have the benefit of a more scientific approach to the game.
If LJ had played in today's NBA, he would have benefited from the same training, the same doctors. LJ was very athletic in Charlotte and shot reasonably well 3pts shots when it was not a crucial shot in the players arsenal. He brought what was needed to the team.

If you really re-watch games from the 90s the defense wasn’t tougher. More physical yes but less talented defenders. Help defense was non-existent and you didn’t have to guard people away from the basket like today. It was a simpler game. Look how much more talented Steph is than someone line mark price. He would run circles around players from that era. This narrative continues to amaze me. Outside of maybe each team’s best 3-4 players none of those other guys make it in the league today. Even the early 2000s. Imagine Shandon anderson, Howard eisley or Chris Dudley today ?


You can go the other way on this too. Imagine if Mark Price or Mahmoud Rauf had the free reign to bomb threes. How much more effective would Derrick Coleman be if he wasn't told to plant himself in the post. There were guys who were considered "tweeners" who didn't get a fair shake then who would thrive today. The gap isn't really so much with the athleticism, although I believe there maybe a bit of gap. It's in the strategy and mindset IMHO opinion. As for Shannon Anderson, I think he would blend in physically today. But the lack of a three-point shot would kill him. I'll also go out on a limb and say Karl Malone might struggle today and I think Barkley would definitely thrive.

Mark price and Rauf didn’t have the speed, size, or quickness for today’s game. Were they even the caliber of jimmer Fredette? Steve Kerr said there’s no way he could play in today’s game. I believe him. And as for Anderson he was essentially damyean Dotson without a passable 3pt shot.
BigDaddyG
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9/17/2021  2:48 AM
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
shinmen wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Kemet wrote:INJURY PRONE Larry Johnson were a star in Charllotte and BUST in N.Y. !!!
We gave up a healthy Winning star Anthony Mason for a 5 yr Injury-Prone BUST Larry Johnson.
I dont recall Larry Johnson as a starter over Oakley, or Camby as a Knicks.

LJ was a full time starter with the Knicks until he retired. His first 2 years he played SF alongside Oakley and for his final 3 years he shifted to PF. Camby played some center but LJ started over him at PF. He wasn’t the same player as he was in Charlotte but he was far from a bust.

It's difficult to compare players from different eras. The defense was much tougher back then. Stephen Curry would be like his father and not a hall of famer if he had played in the 90's, that's not to say he is a bad player. The players today are not inherently better than the one from the previous era, they have the benefit of a more scientific approach to the game.
If LJ had played in today's NBA, he would have benefited from the same training, the same doctors. LJ was very athletic in Charlotte and shot reasonably well 3pts shots when it was not a crucial shot in the players arsenal. He brought what was needed to the team.

If you really re-watch games from the 90s the defense wasn’t tougher. More physical yes but less talented defenders. Help defense was non-existent and you didn’t have to guard people away from the basket like today. It was a simpler game. Look how much more talented Steph is than someone line mark price. He would run circles around players from that era. This narrative continues to amaze me. Outside of maybe each team’s best 3-4 players none of those other guys make it in the league today. Even the early 2000s. Imagine Shandon anderson, Howard eisley or Chris Dudley today ?


You can go the other way on this too. Imagine if Mark Price or Mahmoud Rauf had the free reign to bomb threes. How much more effective would Derrick Coleman be if he wasn't told to plant himself in the post. There were guys who were considered "tweeners" who didn't get a fair shake then who would thrive today. The gap isn't really so much with the athleticism, although I believe there maybe a bit of gap. It's in the strategy and mindset IMHO opinion. As for Shannon Anderson, I think he would blend in physically today. But the lack of a three-point shot would kill him. I'll also go out on a limb and say Karl Malone might struggle today and I think Barkley would definitely thrive.

Mark price and Rauf didn’t have the speed, size, or quickness for today’s game. Were they even the caliber of jimmer Fredette? Steve Kerr said there’s no way he could play in today’s game. I believe him. And as for Anderson he was essentially damyean Dotson without a passable 3pt shot.


You could argue the size with Mark Price, buy he was speedy and an exceptional ball handler. Dude would constantly split between two defenders and break down the defense. As far Mahmoud, he was an above average athlete who could free himself from defenders any time he wanted due to his ball handling. He wasn't any worse of an athlete than Steph. Look at the highlights below and keep in mind he's doing this against Jordan. Also, I agree with you on Kerr, but Kerr was never really a starter in the league to begin with. Kerr played with Price and the gap between them was insurmountable.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Nalod
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9/17/2021  8:33 AM
So many contrasts vs “back in the day”. I agree Anderson might have been an average tweener but the expectations were also different. Curry broke the barrier of by being effective. At some point a coach in college or pro’s might have said “Steph, you take another shot from there Im benching you!”. That would limited the distance. Rauf or any player with that kind of range opens up other aspects. Curry’s man has to play him deep and it gives him ability to penetrate. Steph is not incredibly crazy quick. But he can pull you out with his range. Price was steve nash crafty. Nash was also not that crazy kyrie kind of quick but he too just had the handle, the abilty to change speed and create space (like IQ, Trae) and the mind to put it all together.
Lets put Tony Parker in here too. His points in the paint was very high but without range he does not get in. IQ with is floater reminds me of him.
Kerr was a role player at best and effective with his range. He was a long shot to have had the career he did even then.
The notion that hand checking would dilute todays player might be over rated. Derrick Coleman did not have the legs for todays game and hand checking allowed the fat dudes to stay in the leauge. Sweetny, Oliver Miller, Tractor Traylor……..Remember those guys and others? Bison Dele, Grant in portland, etc. The big guy era came and went. Sabonis had mad skills but guys like him and DIvac wthout range could not even compete today. We do have a version of that, the Joker in Denver! Range and passing are still skills that are coveted and applicable.
Philc1
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9/17/2021  8:51 AM
Knixkik wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
shinmen wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
Kemet wrote:INJURY PRONE Larry Johnson were a star in Charllotte and BUST in N.Y. !!!
We gave up a healthy Winning star Anthony Mason for a 5 yr Injury-Prone BUST Larry Johnson.
I dont recall Larry Johnson as a starter over Oakley, or Camby as a Knicks.

LJ was a full time starter with the Knicks until he retired. His first 2 years he played SF alongside Oakley and for his final 3 years he shifted to PF. Camby played some center but LJ started over him at PF. He wasn’t the same player as he was in Charlotte but he was far from a bust.

It's difficult to compare players from different eras. The defense was much tougher back then. Stephen Curry would be like his father and not a hall of famer if he had played in the 90's, that's not to say he is a bad player. The players today are not inherently better than the one from the previous era, they have the benefit of a more scientific approach to the game.
If LJ had played in today's NBA, he would have benefited from the same training, the same doctors. LJ was very athletic in Charlotte and shot reasonably well 3pts shots when it was not a crucial shot in the players arsenal. He brought what was needed to the team.

If you really re-watch games from the 90s the defense wasn’t tougher. More physical yes but less talented defenders. Help defense was non-existent and you didn’t have to guard people away from the basket like today. It was a simpler game. Look how much more talented Steph is than someone line mark price. He would run circles around players from that era. This narrative continues to amaze me. Outside of maybe each team’s best 3-4 players none of those other guys make it in the league today. Even the early 2000s. Imagine Shandon anderson, Howard eisley or Chris Dudley today ?


You can go the other way on this too. Imagine if Mark Price or Mahmoud Rauf had the free reign to bomb threes. How much more effective would Derrick Coleman be if he wasn't told to plant himself in the post. There were guys who were considered "tweeners" who didn't get a fair shake then who would thrive today. The gap isn't really so much with the athleticism, although I believe there maybe a bit of gap. It's in the strategy and mindset IMHO opinion. As for Shannon Anderson, I think he would blend in physically today. But the lack of a three-point shot would kill him. I'll also go out on a limb and say Karl Malone might struggle today and I think Barkley would definitely thrive.

Mark price and Rauf didn’t have the speed, size, or quickness for today’s game. Were they even the caliber of jimmer Fredette? Steve Kerr said there’s no way he could play in today’s game. I believe him. And as for Anderson he was essentially damyean Dotson without a passable 3pt shot.

Price was pretty quick on his prime and a helluva shooter and ball handler. He would have killed in today’s nba
Marv
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9/17/2021  9:55 AM
i’m feeling this mark price love!

was fortunate in seeing him a lot of times. what a freaking shooter! lifetime line of .50/.40/.90. 3 seasons of 95% ft (!)

underrated all-around game. 4-time all-star. 4-time all-nba. ’90-’91 had 10.4 assists and 2.6 steals pg. accomplished all this going up against magic, isiah, stockton, gary payton, kevin johnson, terry porter, derek harper, mark jackson, tim hardaway, etc

dude was a wizard and a sniper. held his own against the best and i bet he would do so now as well.
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