blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Marv wrote:i think thibs is gonna give fournier a lot of minutes. 6'7", 28 y.o., 30 mins/p.g.last year, 41% 3's, i see him and rj crushing the minutes at the 2/3

This.

Randle may be getting leaner to develop more quickness but that doesn’t mean he’s still not a PF

It's less about Randle playing the 3....more about finding ways to get obi on the floor. If his only opportunity to get mins is when Randle sits, might as well trade obi. That's wasted talent riding the bench. Unless obi comes in for Randle, RJ or Fournier, which forces Randle to the 3. But you have Burks ready to come in as well. Will be an interesting rotation problem for thibs.

I'm the opposite. I don't feel like Obi is a sure fire starter at this point in his career and he meshes very well with that second unit for now. No reason to force something that is just awkward and not there versus letting the guy earn his playing time off the bench for this year at least. Plenty of high level starters that took this route.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Marv wrote:i think thibs is gonna give fournier a lot of minutes. 6'7", 28 y.o., 30 mins/p.g.last year, 41% 3's, i see him and rj crushing the minutes at the 2/3

yup... I think you see a repeat of last year which I am great with. Thibs is gonna ride RJ/Randle for 35 a night and Fournier is going to get 30 unless he really struggles out of the gate for some reason. Kemba/Rose are gonna gobble up the PG minutes and see some time together for small slices as their paths cross and we play small. Mitch is gonna get all minutes he cant handle with Noel doing his thing off the bench.

That leaves like about 10 minutes a night at PF for Obi and maybe some backup 5 here and there?

Your getting a heavy dose of Burks off the bench and IQ/McBride/Grimes are gonna really have to fight for any meaningful minutes, but I think we all also expect Rose/Kemba to have rest days and out with "soreness" so we should at least get some looks.

But its gonna Kemba/RJ/EF/Jules/Mitch with Rose/IQ/Burks/Obi/Noel off the bench and 10 guys is a lot.

whatever happens, can someone please tell Thibs to not drive Randle into the ground - he averaged 37 mins per game last year. That was, if I am reading the stats correctly, the most of any player in the league.

I know he's young, he's an absolute beast of an athlete. But, we have depth and perhaps why Randle came up small in the playoffs last year.

Same with RJ.

None of our guys should be in the top 20.

And this is the one criticism I have of Thibs - he is just like Riley and Van Gundy - he gets so much out of them during the regular season that they out perform expectations, and then they don't have another gear to go to in the play offs.

I typed that - and I thought I better back that up with data:

Thibs regular season record .587%

Play offs .410%

So looking at coaches all time, filtering for those with more than 10 play off games with a career over 500 regular season, he is 8th worse for greatest difference in %, in some prestigious company.

If you filter for those coaches with 9+ years experience (Thibs is 9), you eliminate #1 for greatest deficiency Danny Aigne (.602% regular season vs. .250% play offs!) and others, and Thibs is right behind Mike Fratello who had to lose every year to Larry Bird when he was with the Hawks and in front of Terry Stotts.

Maybe I'm not fair to Van Gundy (.575% regular season, .500% play offs, ) or Riley (.636% regular season, .606% play offs with more rings than fingers).

If I had one message or directive to Thibs this year as owner or FO, it would be it is ok to start slow, not shorten the rotations in the season. It's long, get to the playoffs, then shorten the rotation, then look to out perform.

guys want to play. You seem to miss that point. Your playoff comment is ridiculous. Thibs either lost to Lebron's Heat or when Rose got hurt. Oh and Harden's Rockets beat Thib's Wolves. That was coaching right?

Thats not data. Guy just won COY under your nose and this is your data? cmon

You are what your record says you are. Maybe it's not fair - part of the reason he is up there with Mike Fratello.

Should we examine 2014 when he finished the year without rose, winning a respectable .585% and then losing to the Washington Wizards in 5?

Or this past year when he got us to overacheive, finishing .569% and losing 1-4?

Or the prior time he was in the play offs with almost a same record, .573% and losing 1-4.

If only not for Lebron, Harden, Trae Young and John Wall.

There is a pattern. Is it fair? Maybe not - but if the shoe fits, then he has to wear it until he proves otherwise.

Did I call him a bum? Far from it. But, he plays guys too much. Randle wore down. We had no answer for Trae Young.

I want him to restrain from playing Randle 37+ minutes a game in a desperate desire to win every regular season game. Am I saying play Randle 24 minutes? NO! 34 would be great. 3 fing minutes less.

I don't want to sit Randle on back to backs or stupid stuff like that. Just play more of the other guys to keep Randle and RJ fresh for the play offs. I'd rather make it as an 8 seed and win a series, than finish 4th and not win a series.

I get it. They are all competitive, but that is part of management- looking at the bigger, total picture.

The odds are stacked against you. However, it’s notable that 1 really good playoff run puts you on the better part of history. But you need some sweeps or 4-1 rounds to make a dent (ie you need to outclass your opponent - and you usually won’t do that with only a lower-half seed team)

Interestingly, you could make it all the way to the conference finals, and finish the playoffs potentially with a losing record: 8-10.

And even a trip to the finals could net you with a 12-13 record for that season if you go the distance in the 3 prior rounds.

As reference:
Nate McMillan, often derided as an also-ran coach because of his persistent 1st round exits, finally had a breakthrough run deep.

With his 10-8 run to the conference finals, he improved from 20-36 all the way to 30-44.
So even as impressive as it was, he was only 2 games over .500.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Marv wrote:i think thibs is gonna give fournier a lot of minutes. 6'7", 28 y.o., 30 mins/p.g.last year, 41% 3's, i see him and rj crushing the minutes at the 2/3

This.

Randle may be getting leaner to develop more quickness but that doesn’t mean he’s still not a PF

It's less about Randle playing the 3....more about finding ways to get obi on the floor. If his only opportunity to get mins is when Randle sits, might as well trade obi. That's wasted talent riding the bench. Unless obi comes in for Randle, RJ or Fournier, which forces Randle to the 3. But you have Burks ready to come in as well. Will be an interesting rotation problem for thibs.

I'm the opposite. I don't feel like Obi is a sure fire starter at this point in his career and he meshes very well with that second unit for now. No reason to force something that is just awkward and not there versus letting the guy earn his playing time off the bench for this year at least. Plenty of high level starters that took this route.

i agree with him coming off the bench but still feel he should have access to more than 11 minutes a game if he shows he's earning it. so that has to come from some combo of randle playing fewer minutes or randle/obi getting minutes at other positions. personally i'd like to see it happen. obi brought an energy, physicality and size in the playoffs that we needed. he also showed up well in SL with a good deal more to his game than he showed last year. i'd like to see a strategy that allows for more of that if he shows he's earning it.

Marv wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Marv wrote:i think thibs is gonna give fournier a lot of minutes. 6'7", 28 y.o., 30 mins/p.g.last year, 41% 3's, i see him and rj crushing the minutes at the 2/3

This.

Randle may be getting leaner to develop more quickness but that doesn’t mean he’s still not a PF

It's less about Randle playing the 3....more about finding ways to get obi on the floor. If his only opportunity to get mins is when Randle sits, might as well trade obi. That's wasted talent riding the bench. Unless obi comes in for Randle, RJ or Fournier, which forces Randle to the 3. But you have Burks ready to come in as well. Will be an interesting rotation problem for thibs.

I'm the opposite. I don't feel like Obi is a sure fire starter at this point in his career and he meshes very well with that second unit for now. No reason to force something that is just awkward and not there versus letting the guy earn his playing time off the bench for this year at least. Plenty of high level starters that took this route.

i agree with him coming off the bench but still feel he should have access to more than 11 minutes a game if he shows he's earning it. so that has to come from some combo of randle playing fewer minutes or randle/obi getting minutes at other positions. personally i'd like to see it happen. obi brought an energy, physicality and size in the playoffs that we needed. he also showed up well in SL with a good deal more to his game than he showed last year. i'd like to see a strategy that allows for more of that if he shows he's earning it.

Yeah. Feel like the Knicks had a razor thin margin to win games last year and with it came Randle and RJ minutes. Don't see that happening this year.

Caseloads wrote:Julius is looking like a better version of Me7o out there

All based off of a 1 minute shoot around video. You Sir, have lost all credibility.

....and #2. What the hell has Obi Toppin done to not along start, but PUSH OUR BEST PLAYER off his natural position??? FOH

Jmpasq wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:Julius is looking like a better version of Me7o out there

All based off of a 1 minute shoot around video. You Sir, have lost all credibility.

....and #2. What the hell has Obi Toppin done to not along start, but PUSH OUR BEST PLAYER off his natural position??? FOH

Its ridiculous, he isn't even one of the best 5 players on the team. Its the Frank nonsense all over again. Change the entire team for a back-up. Not only that but its a lineup that will get destroyed on the perimeter. At least play Obi or Randle at center if you want to run them together.

Randles the highest paid player on the team. And his best position is PF. If we are building around our best player, I would think Obi is the one who needs to either slim down or beef up. Let Randle be Randle, and we will be fine. If Obi is a future star, it doesn't matter what role he has, his star will shine. It's only his 2nd year, so no need to panic. Randle wasn't the Randle of today in his 2nd year. I'm sure Obi and staff understands the pecking order by now and Obi is stuck picking up scraps, until he proves himself over an entire season and not just the 2nd half. Worst case, he becomes a great trading chip, which gives us a player that propels us to a chip. Which could also be best case. I was caught up in his draft position, similar to frank. But regardless where he was selected, Randle is the alpha dog. And the remaining players have to adjust their game to fit in. Especially after taking a pay cu..Randle is a knick 4 life. Or at least until his contract is up. ENJOY THE RIDE

blkexec wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:Julius is looking like a better version of Me7o out there

All based off of a 1 minute shoot around video. You Sir, have lost all credibility.

....and #2. What the hell has Obi Toppin done to not along start, but PUSH OUR BEST PLAYER off his natural position??? FOH

Its ridiculous, he isn't even one of the best 5 players on the team. Its the Frank nonsense all over again. Change the entire team for a back-up. Not only that but its a lineup that will get destroyed on the perimeter. At least play Obi or Randle at center if you want to run them together.

Randles the highest paid player on the team. And his best position is PF. If we are building around our best player, I would think Obi is the one who needs to either slim down or beef up. Let Randle be Randle, and we will be fine. If Obi is a future star, it doesn't matter what role he has, his star will shine. It's only his 2nd year, so no need to panic. Randle wasn't the Randle of today in his 2nd year. I'm sure Obi and staff understands the pecking order by now and Obi is stuck picking up scraps, until he proves himself over an entire season and not just the 2nd half. Worst case, he becomes a great trading chip, which gives us a player that propels us to a chip. Which could also be best case. I was caught up in his draft position, similar to frank. But regardless where he was selected, Randle is the alpha dog. And the remaining players have to adjust their game to fit in. Especially after taking a pay cu..Randle is a knick 4 life. Or at least until his contract is up. ENJOY THE RIDE

The problem is Obi will never be fast enough to guard wing players. At the same time he’s also not the rim protecting shot blocking Center that Thibs always uses. Obi could play the 5 on most NBA teams today but not a Thibs coached team

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Caseloads wrote:Julius is looking like a better version of Me7o out there

All based off of a 1 minute shoot around video. You Sir, have lost all credibility.

....and #2. What the hell has Obi Toppin done to not along start, but PUSH OUR BEST PLAYER off his natural position??? FOH

Its ridiculous, he isn't even one of the best 5 players on the team. Its the Frank nonsense all over again. Change the entire team for a back-up. Not only that but its a lineup that will get destroyed on the perimeter. At least play Obi or Randle at center if you want to run them together.

Randles the highest paid player on the team. And his best position is PF. If we are building around our best player, I would think Obi is the one who needs to either slim down or beef up. Let Randle be Randle, and we will be fine. If Obi is a future star, it doesn't matter what role he has, his star will shine. It's only his 2nd year, so no need to panic. Randle wasn't the Randle of today in his 2nd year. I'm sure Obi and staff understands the pecking order by now and Obi is stuck picking up scraps, until he proves himself over an entire season and not just the 2nd half. Worst case, he becomes a great trading chip, which gives us a player that propels us to a chip. Which could also be best case. I was caught up in his draft position, similar to frank. But regardless where he was selected, Randle is the alpha dog. And the remaining players have to adjust their game to fit in. Especially after taking a pay cu..Randle is a knick 4 life. Or at least until his contract is up. ENJOY THE RIDE

The problem is Obi will never be fast enough to guard wing players. At the same time he’s also not the rim protecting shot blocking Center that Thibs always uses. Obi could play the 5 on most NBA teams today but not a Thibs coached team

He's not a Rebounder, paint protector, defender, post player, and rarely takes mid range jumpers....He's not playing center on any team, unless it's high school...are you kidding me, they didn't even try that in SL

Now that Frank is gone you need someone new to **** on?
Why not just expound on his postitive atributes and root for his success than pretend your well seasoned sage of talent evaluation?
Obi is not a 5. Obi played like 11 min at PF as a rookie. His best play came vs ATL in the playoff round.
His future? Tune in and watch.
Has Randle(s) ever play the 5? Mabye High school?