franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:do we know if our FO spoke with Leonard's agent(s)?

If Leonard said - I want to come to NY, did Rose tell them - sorry, we're keeping our own guys.

How does Pat Riley every year pull rabbits out of hats, and we're happy to retain Derrick 'I'm 33 and have played 20,000+ minutes and now am firmly on the downside of my career' Rose?

Versus what? Paying a fat 35 year old $90M over 3 years versus giving a guy who boosted out team to a 24-11 record while Toronto floundered?

Let this sink in. Rose, 32 given 3 year $43M. Lowry, 35 given $90M over 3 years.

I though Jimmy Butler was over rated. He goes to Maimi, and then he's an absolute monster in COVID year.

Riley added - we kept.

Look - I would not have signed Lowry. And I'm not against Rose in isolation. But we didn't really improve anything.

Bulls, Miami certainly did.

We were lucky last year, out performed- got career years out of some players. That is hard to do that year after year.

We needed to swap out and roll the dice on someone getting better.

Rose can't give us starter minutes. If we're lucky, we get 60 games, 28 mins per out of him. What are we doing for the other 57% of PG minutes? Are we going with Burks? Is Payton coming back. Is it IQ? The kid we drafted?

Fuck yes we did. Fournier over Bullock is a significant step.

I don't agree that the Bulls upgraded. Ball didn't move the needle in New Orleans and I have doubts he does much in Chicago. Miami is a well coached team and we shall see how much Lowry adds.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:do we know if our FO spoke with Leonard's agent(s)?

If Leonard said - I want to come to NY, did Rose tell them - sorry, we're keeping our own guys.

How does Pat Riley every year pull rabbits out of hats, and we're happy to retain Derrick 'I'm 33 and have played 20,000+ minutes and now am firmly on the downside of my career' Rose?

Versus what? Paying a fat 35 year old $90M over 3 years versus giving a guy who boosted out team to a 24-11 record while Toronto floundered?

Let this sink in. Rose, 32 given 3 year $43M. Lowry, 35 given $90M over 3 years.

I though Jimmy Butler was over rated. He goes to Maimi, and then he's an absolute monster in COVID year.

Riley added - we kept.

Look - I would not have signed Lowry. And I'm not against Rose in isolation. But we didn't really improve anything.

Bulls, Miami certainly did.

We were lucky last year, out performed- got career years out of some players. That is hard to do that year after year.

We needed to swap out and roll the dice on someone getting better.

Rose can't give us starter minutes. If we're lucky, we get 60 games, 28 mins per out of him. What are we doing for the other 57% of PG minutes? Are we going with Burks? Is Payton coming back. Is it IQ? The kid we drafted?

Fuck yes we did. Fournier over Bullock is a significant step.

I don't agree that the Bulls upgraded. Ball didn't move the needle in New Orleans and I have doubts he does much in Chicago. Miami is a well coached team and we shall see how much Lowry adds.

which version of Fournier is a significant upgrade? The 13 PPG version that played on the Celtics, or the 19 PPG version that played on a last place lottery team?

I'm not saying Fournier isn't better than Bullock, just not enough to warrent spending that kind of money.

Heck, bring back Frank and develop him into a situational 3&d wing player.

Fournier got markt value, and Thibs was never going to play frank even if his mama begged.

You hear of any NBA team remotely interested in Frank, not a peep, he'll be available right up until next summer.

what exactly was our wing option, bullock for 10 mill, giving you 10 points as a starter, well fournier gives you 18 points as a starter and got 18 mill per

homeskillitprigioni wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I LOVE what the FO has been doing, taking what comes at them, fans want an instant contender and are star stuck that need name recognition. We need a particular type FA, not just one of the best of that particular year. The FO has done a good job accumulated good players and are building a winning culture. We are so much better and closer to a complete team with depth than any time over the last 20 years. In addition, alot of our players are under 23 years old and will improve year over year. The Knicks have not overpaid for anything, very patient and calculating moves.

I remember the fans outrage last year after their analysis of our failed FA signings. Last years team was one of the most enjoyable years I could remember, love rooting for the young players.

Most all of our contracts end in 2025, I believe when players like Lilliard and Karl Anthony Towns become FA's. I think this team will grow and win enough to get near the Conference Championship by then ..

At least you're more realistic, even though we disagree on a few points.

I agree that the Knicks basically made a big proclamation that they have no designs on winning the championship over the next 3 years with locking into these players they did. Conference championship is probably the ceiling, agreed.

I just don't agree that's a good thing. We had the roster flexibility to be able to add a big piece if it became available, and now we don't. Literally the best case scenario could happen with this roster in terms of development and health and whatever and it's still not good enough.

Last year's offseason was totally different. While we whiffed on a couple players in FA, we stayed with 1 year deals for the most part and didn't trap ourselves into bad multi-year contracts, we retained our flexibility while surrounding our young players with decent vets.

I said this before in another post...but I think the people that are angry about this offseason ARE the more patient fans because we didn't want to lock ourselves into these contracts just to be marginally better next year. We would've been fine with 1 year deals again and letting our young guys develop and retain roster and cap flexibility.

I guess it's ultimately a matter of preference. The fans that are happy with this offseason are just happy with being mediocre or slightly above and the fans that aren't happy are the ones that wanted to shoot for the stars within the next 3 years.

Well, the players we signed to 1 year deals last year had years that made them more marketable on the FA front. They basically were given prove it deals and they proved it. To get the remnants left over in FA again to offer them again the 1 year deals, there's no guarantee they will have the same impact, different player profiles. You want some kind of roster continuity.

Maybe we could have tied up one of the big FA's with a near Max deal but then we do not have roster depth. Forget about Rose, Noel and Burks, it was the depth that made us a strong team. Where would we have been without Burks and especially Noel last year? Sacramento in their championship years had those great secondary players that gave them depth. Once they had to break up the team because those secondary players wanted to be paid, Sacramento collapsed. Despite what is happening with the 3 super star teams, those teams did great jobs drafting young cheap players to build a base and gives them the depth you need. Teams like Phoenix, Miami, Sacramento (in their early days) had great drafts and let those players become great before bringing in other players.

I think we are 2-3 years from having those young players break out. RJ is there, I LOVE our draft and the hard nosed players we brought in. I love Quickly's game, think Obi will be so much better year 2 post lockdowns. All these young players work hard and are gym rats.

The salary cap will increase some players will not work out (Knox?) and we'll gain their salaries to combo into a player that will put us over the top. We still have alot of draft capital and roster flexibility.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:do we know if our FO spoke with Leonard's agent(s)?

If Leonard said - I want to come to NY, did Rose tell them - sorry, we're keeping our own guys.

How does Pat Riley every year pull rabbits out of hats, and we're happy to retain Derrick 'I'm 33 and have played 20,000+ minutes and now am firmly on the downside of my career' Rose?

Versus what? Paying a fat 35 year old $90M over 3 years versus giving a guy who boosted out team to a 24-11 record while Toronto floundered?

Let this sink in. Rose, 32 given 3 year $43M. Lowry, 35 given $90M over 3 years.

I though Jimmy Butler was over rated. He goes to Maimi, and then he's an absolute monster in COVID year.

Riley added - we kept.

Look - I would not have signed Lowry. And I'm not against Rose in isolation. But we didn't really improve anything.

Bulls, Miami certainly did.

We were lucky last year, out performed- got career years out of some players. That is hard to do that year after year.

We needed to swap out and roll the dice on someone getting better.

Rose can't give us starter minutes. If we're lucky, we get 60 games, 28 mins per out of him. What are we doing for the other 57% of PG minutes? Are we going with Burks? Is Payton coming back. Is it IQ? The kid we drafted?

Fuck yes we did. Fournier over Bullock is a significant step.

I don't agree that the Bulls upgraded. Ball didn't move the needle in New Orleans and I have doubts he does much in Chicago. Miami is a well coached team and we shall see how much Lowry adds.

which version of Fournier is a significant upgrade? The 13 PPG version that played on the Celtics, or the 19 PPG version that played on a last place lottery team?

I'm not saying Fournier isn't better than Bullock, just not enough to warrent spending that kind of money.

Heck, bring back Frank and develop him into a situational 3&d wing player.

Come one man, you can do better. At this point you are posting out of frustration.

I'm talking about the solid 18ppg, 40% 3pt shooter over the past 2 years who played on crappy teams without a decent PG.

Put him on a good team and look what he does in the Olympics.

knicks1248 wrote:Knicks are not a place most players care to play, you can't even blame the FO, when guys are turning down our $$

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1422671596351807490

He's thinking he has a legitimate shot at a title on the Lakers...You're making this a Knicks thing, when it is actually a Lakers thing.

BigDaddyG wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Knicks are not a place most players care to play, you can't even blame the FO, when guys are turning down our $$

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1422671596351807490

He's thinking he has a legitimate shot at a title on the Lakers...You're making this a Knicks thing, when it is actually a Lakers thing.

It's a gut punch. He's at the stage in his career where he should be worried about making the most money. Instead, he'll likely get less minutes while being Russ's caddy.

i'm not so sure. he could be their starting sg at this point, no?

triple threat is muttering bitcoin right around now

BigDaddyG wrote:

CleaverGreene wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Knicks are not a place most players care to play, you can't even blame the FO, when guys are turning down our $$

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1422671596351807490

He's thinking he has a legitimate shot at a title on the Lakers...You're making this a Knicks thing, when it is actually a Lakers thing.

It's a gut punch. He's at the stage in his career where he should be worried about making the most money. Instead, he'll likely get less minutes while being Russ's caddy.

Exactly,

That laker Roster isn't even well thought out, looks like a YMCA pick up game of former players.

homeskillitprigioni wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I LOVE what the FO has been doing, taking what comes at them, fans want an instant contender and are star stuck that need name recognition. We need a particular type FA, not just one of the best of that particular year. The FO has done a good job accumulated good players and are building a winning culture. We are so much better and closer to a complete team with depth than any time over the last 20 years. In addition, alot of our players are under 23 years old and will improve year over year. The Knicks have not overpaid for anything, very patient and calculating moves.

I remember the fans outrage last year after their analysis of our failed FA signings. Last years team was one of the most enjoyable years I could remember, love rooting for the young players.

Most all of our contracts end in 2025, I believe when players like Lilliard and Karl Anthony Towns become FA's. I think this team will grow and win enough to get near the Conference Championship by then ..

At least you're more realistic, even though we disagree on a few points.

I agree that the Knicks basically made a big proclamation that they have no designs on winning the championship over the next 3 years with locking into these players they did. Conference championship is probably the ceiling, agreed.

I just don't agree that's a good thing. We had the roster flexibility to be able to add a big piece if it became available, and now we don't. Literally the best case scenario could happen with this roster in terms of development and health and whatever and it's still not good enough.

Last year's offseason was totally different. While we whiffed on a couple players in FA, we stayed with 1 year deals for the most part and didn't trap ourselves into bad multi-year contracts, we retained our flexibility while surrounding our young players with decent vets.

I said this before in another post...but I think the people that are angry about this offseason ARE the more patient fans because we didn't want to lock ourselves into these contracts just to be marginally better next year. We would've been fine with 1 year deals again and letting our young guys develop and retain roster and cap flexibility.

I guess it's ultimately a matter of preference. The fans that are happy with this offseason are just happy with being mediocre or slightly above and the fans that aren't happy are the ones that wanted to shoot for the stars within the next 3 years.

The First round is ceiling. We are a borderline playoff team. The Heat and Bulls are much better. The Hawks won't finish behind us again. More likely we miss the playoffs than finish with the 4th seed

knicks1248 wrote:

MS wrote:That’s really bad. Kendrick Nunn turned down the opportunity to start for the Knicks to be the 8th man on Lakers.

The Lakers were able to get three shooters, Ariza, Melo and Howard. Two promising young scorers with no cap room. Just mind blowing.

Not really mind boggling at all, how long have i been saying the only way a star is coming here is via trade.

We have had Cap space almost every yr (at least 20 mill) since Phil jackson and haven't been able to sign no one special.

And it seems we may have to over pay in a trade because the FO have been getting turned down in the DEPT..

This particular problen isn't a Knicks problem. This is a league problem.

Chandler wrote:
Society of Sour Grapes

And wet diapers.