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Good job Knicks. Welcome to complete SALARY CAP HELL (for the next 3 years too).
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Chandler
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8/2/2021  9:26 PM
franco12 wrote:
Chandler wrote:
this is one of the more juvenile threads in a while. displays a lot of ignorance

Ignorance how? We retained three of four players from last year, paid more for them than they were paid last year, and added as a big signing a player that has never really done anything? We’re capped out.

Could it have been worse? I’m not really sure how it could have been worse?

Last year we got lucky, caught lightening in a bottle. Unless RJ & IQ take big steps forward, maybe even Robinson (if he can stay healthy an entire season), I’m not sure how we keep pace with the other teams in the Eastern Conference?

My comment was mostly directed to the original post where everything was F- and everyone was ass. Guy writes and acts like a 13 year old.

these guys got market rate; in fact i suspect a lot of these guys choose us if we just came close to their then top offers. It's pretty easy to argue that Burks in particular could have made more. All of these guys bought in and thrived. If you want to criticize you should blame the FO for not having a crystal ball to realize how well these guys would play under Thibs and for not locking up more team friendly deals last year. I don't blame them for that. Yes it would have been nicer. But they're plucking these lower tier guys out of FA and getting real contributions from them suggests to me that they probably know what they're doing, and they certainly know 10x more than the juvenile who thinks Bullock is better than Fournier.

Bullock -- who i liked -- hurt us on offense. He was inconsistent (but fortunately played well in the second half of season), and he is dreadful at making his own shot, and creates nothing for others. The opponent catches a breather guarding him because he's mostly a spot up shooter, and not that great flying around off screens.

Fornier (who was not my top option) will at least expand the offense. He can create his own shot and is a bit of a play maker. Our offense will really open up when you think RJ Evan and Julius will be on the floor all of whom pass really well -- now just upgrade from ELf.

Now all that said, i respect a lot of voices on this board and including those who disagree with me (because if nothing else it makes me question my own thought processes/assumptions). I just like it better when there's actual coherent arguments.

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Chandler
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8/2/2021  9:28 PM
foosballnick wrote:
martin wrote:
Chandler wrote:
this is one of the more juvenile threads in a while. displays a lot of ignorance

yeah pretty much

The degree of histrionics that Mentality has brought to this board has elevated the juvenile ignorance to perhaps the highest level ever since I've been reading this forum.

this guy has been on one of the Jets forums. I don't know if he's currently banned for the same stuff (frankly i don't know because i ignore his posts) but he has been on and off again with the bans for the excessive repetitiveness and immaturity

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NYKMentality
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8/2/2021  9:30 PM
How much cap space do we even have left?

Can we even afford to sign Carmelo Anthony off the bench anymore?

😂🤣😂

All I can do is laugh at this point.

KnickDanger
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8/2/2021  9:34 PM
Jeez...we sign a solid 28 year old pro who is essentially getting a cost of living raise to his last contract and some are climbing the bridge to jump. Go read his stat line please and check out what other players of his caliber are making. A different position, but Dinwiddie is looking for the same kind of cash and i would much rather have Fournier. He makes this team better.

I was posting on the Pro Sports Daily board and had to leave because of the insipid level of analysis and debate. This board has been a haven in that regard. I am not advocating censorship or anything of the sort but I encourage posters to raise their game beyond prisoner of the moment ADD tirades. The team took a big step forward last year and I expect more progress this year. It appears the FO has a plan beyond the appeasement of the sugar rush mob. Ask Nets fans about salary cap hell.

NYKMentality
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8/2/2021  9:46 PM
KnickDanger wrote:Jeez...we sign a solid 28 year old pro who is essentially getting a cost of living raise to his last contract and some are climbing the bridge to jump. Go read his stat line please and check out what other players of his caliber are making. A different position, but Dinwiddie is looking for the same kind of cash and i would much rather have Fournier. He makes this team better.

I was posting on the Pro Sports Daily board and had to leave because of the insipid level of analysis and debate. This board has been a haven in that regard. I am not advocating censorship or anything of the sort but I encourage posters to raise their game beyond prisoner of the moment ADD tirades. The team took a big step forward last year and I expect more progress this year. It appears the FO has a plan beyond the appeasement of the sugar rush mob. Ask Nets fans about salary cap hell.

I'm just disappointed in watching my favorite team end up in absolute salary cap hell for the next 3 years.

We got eliminated during the 1st round and we failed to upgrade whatsoever during FA despite #1 available salary cap space.


You'll see what I mean and why I'm frustrated come next FA (which is A+ fully loaded) when our Knicks won't have enough salary cap space to sign anyone.


Hope you guys are happy with Evan Fournier/Derrick Rose/Alec Burks/Noel Nerlens because I'm not and just wanted to vent my FA frustrations tonight because I don't feel like celebrating as if we just became an Eastern Conference contender; because we're not.

HofstraBBall
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8/2/2021  9:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2021  9:51 PM
NYKMentality wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
NYKMentality wrote:We just downgraded and spent damn near $20M per season to downgrade too.


Reggie Bullock made 163 3's last year.

Evan Fournier (only) made 117 3's last year.

And you guys are acting like we just landed ourselves a freaking 3PT shooter?

Bullock is also 10x better on Defense than this absolute trash ass Evan Fournier scrub and Reggie Bullock was a big part of our NBA's #1 Defense last year.

We just got WORSE @ SF.

The good news is that he did that in just 42 games. In 2020 he made 173 in just 66 games.
Dougie Mac just got $42m for three and only made 111 in 66 games last year and 128 in 69 games in 19/20.....If we are judging based on 3pt makes.

The other good news is that Frank is guaranteed to be reunited with his countryman.

Ok cool.

So he made 173 3's in 2020? Cool. Because Reggie just made 163 3's last year and with 10x better Defense too.

So we just gave a bum $20M per season who only played 42 games last year and can't stay healthy and injured literally every freaking year?

This is the worst FA class I've ever WITNESSED and now in absolute SALARY CAP HELL for the next 3 years.

Wtf.

Are we now comparing Bullock? Sure, would have liked it if Knicks kept him. Curious to see how much he gets in Dallas. 163 is not more than 173. Fournier also creates a lot more on offense. Bullock also shot .34 and 33. in 18/19 19/20 so could be argued last year was a fluke. But again, I wanted Reggie back.

Imo, EF contract is fine. It is one that has value. Playoff teams like guys like EF who can shoot and create. $18.5M is and won't be such a bad number for a productive shooter. Especially as caps go up.

As mentioned on another thread, the concern, if they don't produce, should be Rose and Noel at $25M. Hard to see a team thinking Rose is a good deal at $15m at his age and with his injury history if he has a bad year or gets hurt. But hopefully they have another good year. Making their contracts seem fair.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
KnickDanger
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8/2/2021  10:01 PM
NYKMentality wrote:
KnickDanger wrote:Jeez...we sign a solid 28 year old pro who is essentially getting a cost of living raise to his last contract and some are climbing the bridge to jump. Go read his stat line please and check out what other players of his caliber are making. A different position, but Dinwiddie is looking for the same kind of cash and i would much rather have Fournier. He makes this team better.

I was posting on the Pro Sports Daily board and had to leave because of the insipid level of analysis and debate. This board has been a haven in that regard. I am not advocating censorship or anything of the sort but I encourage posters to raise their game beyond prisoner of the moment ADD tirades. The team took a big step forward last year and I expect more progress this year. It appears the FO has a plan beyond the appeasement of the sugar rush mob. Ask Nets fans about salary cap hell.

I'm just disappointed in watching my favorite team end up in absolute salary cap hell for the next 3 years.

We got eliminated during the 1st round and we failed to upgrade whatsoever during FA despite #1 available salary cap space.


You'll see what I mean and why I'm frustrated come next FA (which is A+ fully loaded) when our Knicks won't have enough salary cap space to sign anyone.


Hope you guys are happy with Evan Fournier/Derrick Rose/Alec Burks/Noel Nerlens because I'm not and just wanted to vent my FA frustrations tonight because I don't feel like celebrating as if we just became an Eastern Conference contender; because we're not.


I've got this crazy idea...let's wait until the off season is done...and then play some games...and then we can jump off the bridge!
homeskillitprigioni
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8/2/2021  10:03 PM
So to the people that love these signings...what's our path to becoming a championship team in these next 3 years with all this money locked up to role players?

The reality is we've basically locked ourselves into being somewhere between a mediocre and good team for the next 3 years at least, and that's best case scenario.

The Knicks essentially came out and with these moves announced that they have no designs on competing for a championship for the next 3 years.

NYKMentality
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8/2/2021  10:06 PM
Well at least I now know why Boston wanted nothing to do with paying him...


Last year Evan Fournier ranked....


• 5th amongst all Celtics in Points per game.

• 5th in Assists per game.

• 9th in Rebounds per game.

• 10th in FG%.

• 11th in Player Efficiency Rating.


Yeah. Right. Some great signing this guy is....

NYKMentality
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8/2/2021  10:12 PM
homeskillitprigioni wrote:So to the people that love these signings...what's our path to becoming a championship team in these next 3 years with all this money locked up to role players?

The reality is we've basically locked ourselves into being somewhere between a mediocre and good team for the next 3 years at least, and that's best case scenario.

The Knicks essentially came out and with these moves announced that they have no designs on competing for a championship for the next 3 years.

I'm just disappointed and frustrated because if we were going to strike out during 2021's FA class....


Why not just go with the youth movement and let both Immanuel and McBride develop @ PG and Grimes develop @ SF 2021?

And then still have A+ available salary cap space come 2022's FA class? Which is absolutely loaded. Fully loaded. 😓

But now? How can any Knicks fan tell me with a straight face that we're not in absolute salary cap hell throughout the next 3 years?

I'm just frustrated and disappointed and don't see how any of these FA moves improved our future especially long term.

Chandler
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8/2/2021  10:12 PM
homeskillitprigioni wrote:So to the people that love these signings...what's our path to becoming a championship team in these next 3 years with all this money locked up to role players?

The reality is we've basically locked ourselves into being somewhere between a mediocre and good team for the next 3 years at least, and that's best case scenario.

The Knicks essentially came out and with these moves announced that they have no designs on competing for a championship for the next 3 years.

it's being patient, developing players and grinding it out. improving each year by being smart, not sexy

the odds of signing Lebron and AD as FAs or Kawhi and PG (via trade) are very slim

On the flip side, I can offer a suggestion for all of those who want instant gratification and championships. Just change allegianes. Become a Nets fan. or Lakers or Clippers.

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homeskillitprigioni
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8/2/2021  10:18 PM
Chandler wrote:
homeskillitprigioni wrote:So to the people that love these signings...what's our path to becoming a championship team in these next 3 years with all this money locked up to role players?

The reality is we've basically locked ourselves into being somewhere between a mediocre and good team for the next 3 years at least, and that's best case scenario.

The Knicks essentially came out and with these moves announced that they have no designs on competing for a championship for the next 3 years.

it's being patient, developing players and grinding it out. improving each year by being smart, not sexy

the odds of signing Lebron and AD as FAs or Kawhi and PG (via trade) are very slim

On the flip side, I can offer a suggestion for all of those who want instant gratification and championships. Just change allegianes. Become a Nets fan. or Lakers or Clippers.

That's not what the issue is though, you're skirting the question as are most who are defending what happened today.

Most of us didn't expect a championship team for next year. What many of us wanted was to retain flexibility moving forward to be able to get that big piece if that opportunity presents itself in the future here while our young players developed this season. We were fine with doing the same thing as last year and signing vets to 1 year deals around the young players.

Today's signings to these 3 and 4 year contracts destroys that flexibility and possibility. We are basically locked into being a mediocre team for years to come now. I would actually counter and say the people who are angry today ARE the more patient people that didn't want us to get trapped in these multi-year deals for marginal improvements next year.

NYKMentality
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8/2/2021  10:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2021  10:24 PM
Chandler wrote:
homeskillitprigioni wrote:So to the people that love these signings...what's our path to becoming a championship team in these next 3 years with all this money locked up to role players?

The reality is we've basically locked ourselves into being somewhere between a mediocre and good team for the next 3 years at least, and that's best case scenario.

The Knicks essentially came out and with these moves announced that they have no designs on competing for a championship for the next 3 years.

it's being patient, developing players and grinding it out. improving each year by being smart, not sexy

the odds of signing Lebron and AD as FAs or Kawhi and PG (via trade) are very slim

On the flip side, I can offer a suggestion for all of those who want instant gratification and championships. Just change allegianes. Become a Nets fan. or Lakers or Clippers.

I'm born and raised in Queens and will one day die a Knicks fan.


Oh. So now we have to "switch teams" because we're not celebrating this FA class? That's disgusting of you.

Instant gratification? I'm 36 years old have loved my Knicks since 5 years old and never once celebrated a Championship but now you're accusing me of "instant gratification"? Disgusting.

And you have the nerve to talk about "patience"? Patience would've been to allow both I.Q/Mcbride to develop @ PG (not paying a past his prime Derrick Rose $15M per season) and "patience" would've been to allow Grimes a chance to develop and start at SF not paying no "Evan Fournier" freaking $20M per season.

Patience? Don't talk to me about "patience" because being patient doesn't = putting your Franchise in 3 years of absolute salary cap hell and for what? All because of a crap FA class?


Who are you to tell anyone to stop being a Knicks fan and bleeding Orange and Blue all because of Free Agency disappointed and frustration? Who do you think you are man?


Who are you to talk about developing younger players and "patience" but yet support paying a mediocre 28 year old SF in "Evan Fournier" and a 36 year old Derrick Rose in 3 years? Patience? Developing our YOUTH? So it took 3 years of salary cap hell in order to do so?

martin
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8/2/2021  10:22 PM
NYKMentality wrote:Well at least I now know why Boston wanted nothing to do with paying him...


Last year Evan Fournier ranked....


• 5th amongst all Celtics in Points per game.

• 5th in Assists per game.

• 9th in Rebounds per game.

• 10th in FG%.

• 11th in Player Efficiency Rating.


Yeah. Right. Some great signing this guy is....

You mean for the 16 games he played for Boston last year?

You think that's significant?

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Knicksfan
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8/2/2021  10:35 PM
I think it’s totally fair to question all these moves tonight. The dramatic exaggeration on the evaluation, yeah, it’s too much, but I guess we all as fans at some point have fallen pray to the seeming doom of a moment.

In reality, I think the Burks deal is totally fair and earned. Evaluating this as bad is just exaggerating.

The Noel signing is uncomfortable, but arguably earned. He was a bargain last season, which gave a sense of luck in having him. Now he seems overpaid to some, while in general seems to be fairly paid for a market that is paying a lot. He helps and is a super bench player, but does make you wonder what’s the future of Mitch on the team.

Fournier’s deal seems ok, but understandably frustrating when in the end it could be our biggest move. He could be a perfect partner for RJ either at SG or at SF. Brings shooting and hopefully the third strong scoring presence we lacked in the playoffs. Durability is a concern and his impact doesn’t look sexy, but could end up being a huge difference in us actually improving next season.

The Rose signing is very confusing. We kinda hoped and expected to resign him, but at a lower pay as we expected him to be a limited reserve. But his contract is very rich for that spot and the way Thibs relies on him, you can argue if the plan is to start him and balance with the trip of young PGs: IQ, Deuce, Pablo 2.0. If that is the plan, that is a very questionable strategy of Rose remains as limited as he has been in the last seasons.

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NYKMentality
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8/2/2021  10:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2021  10:38 PM
martin wrote:
NYKMentality wrote:Well at least I now know why Boston wanted nothing to do with paying him...


Last year Evan Fournier ranked....


• 5th amongst all Celtics in Points per game.

• 5th in Assists per game.

• 9th in Rebounds per game.

• 10th in FG%.

• 11th in Player Efficiency Rating.


Yeah. Right. Some great signing this guy is....

You mean for the 16 games he played for Boston last year?

You think that's significant?

Well for one it only took Boston 16 games to realize they no longer wanted him.


How about his 2019-2020 season and his 33-40 run with Orlando just the season before last?


• 2nd in points scored per game (for a losing team).

• 4th in FG%.

• 4th in Player Efficiency Rating.

• 5th in assists per game.

• 5th in steals per game.

• 6th in Win Share.

• 12th in rebounds per game.

• 13th in Defensive Player Rating.


Better? Because Orlando obviously wanted nothing to do with him either. He's mediocre and below average at best and nothing close to a top 60 NBA player

This will become my last post complaining about this FA class and I'll move forward from here I just find it a bit extreme to pay a soon to be 29 year old player damn near $20M per season despite the fact he's been in the league for 9 years and has been quite on by 3 different teams and has a combined 0 NBA All-Star selections. $20M?

But yeah I'm done venting man hope he proves me wrong and leads us to an NBA Championship.

martin
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8/2/2021  10:38 PM
NYKMentality wrote:
martin wrote:
NYKMentality wrote:Well at least I now know why Boston wanted nothing to do with paying him...


Last year Evan Fournier ranked....


• 5th amongst all Celtics in Points per game.

• 5th in Assists per game.

• 9th in Rebounds per game.

• 10th in FG%.

• 11th in Player Efficiency Rating.


Yeah. Right. Some great signing this guy is....

You mean for the 16 games he played for Boston last year?

You think that's significant?

Well for one it only took Boston 16 games to realize they no longer wanted him.


How about his 2019-2020 season and his 33-40 run with Orlando just the season before last?


• 2nd in points scored per game (for a losing team).

• 4th in FG%.

• 4th in Player Efficiency Rating.

• 5th in assists per game.

• 5th in steals per game.

• 6th in Win Share.

• 12th in rebounds per game.

• 13th in Defensive Player Rating.


Better? Because Orlando obviously wanted nothing to do with him either.


This will become my last post complaining about this FA class and I'll move forward from here I just find it a bit extreme to pay a soon to be 29 year old player damn near $20M per season despite the fact he's been in the league for 9 years and has been quite on by 3 different teams and has a combined 0 NBA All-Star selections. $20M?

But yeah I'm done venting man hope he proves me wrong and leads us to an NBA Championship.

All these stats you posted are literally meaningless

No one does this

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NYKMentality
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8/2/2021  10:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2021  10:39 PM
martin wrote:
NYKMentality wrote:
martin wrote:
NYKMentality wrote:Well at least I now know why Boston wanted nothing to do with paying him...


Last year Evan Fournier ranked....


• 5th amongst all Celtics in Points per game.

• 5th in Assists per game.

• 9th in Rebounds per game.

• 10th in FG%.

• 11th in Player Efficiency Rating.


Yeah. Right. Some great signing this guy is....

You mean for the 16 games he played for Boston last year?

You think that's significant?

Well for one it only took Boston 16 games to realize they no longer wanted him.


How about his 2019-2020 season and his 33-40 run with Orlando just the season before last?


• 2nd in points scored per game (for a losing team).

• 4th in FG%.

• 4th in Player Efficiency Rating.

• 5th in assists per game.

• 5th in steals per game.

• 6th in Win Share.

• 12th in rebounds per game.

• 13th in Defensive Player Rating.


Better? Because Orlando obviously wanted nothing to do with him either.


This will become my last post complaining about this FA class and I'll move forward from here I just find it a bit extreme to pay a soon to be 29 year old player damn near $20M per season despite the fact he's been in the league for 9 years and has been quite on by 3 different teams and has a combined 0 NBA All-Star selections. $20M?

But yeah I'm done venting man hope he proves me wrong and leads us to an NBA Championship.

All these stats you posted are literally meaningless

No one does this

O.k and paying a 9 year 0x All-Star @ $20M is somehow meaningful?

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8/2/2021  10:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/2/2021  10:47 PM
These signing do the one thing I thought this team needed, which is 48 minutes of shot-blocking. Noel was a guy I wanted back because with him and Mitch we now will continue to have shot blocking on the court at all times.

I like Fournier as a player but if we were going to sign him, I would have rather the team then pass on resigning Burks. Adding an Oubre and EF might have been better than resigning Burks. But it is what it is.

I do not mind the resigning of Rose. Honestly, he played better than most of the other FA point guards did last year and at $15 mil, he is cheaper than Ball. I don’t know if Schroeder will get his $20 mil per year, but the Knicks were not interested in waiting around for his price to drop.

Overall, this seems like lateral moves. We will really be relying on IQ, Toppin, Grimes, and McBride to develop into solid rotation players.

I understand the Knicks thinking. We lost to Atlanta but it turned out that Atlanta was really very good and was probably the third best team in the conference. How would that series have gone if we had a healthy Mitch (giving us a center with the hands to score in the post), Evan Fournier (giving us a solid third scorer who can create his own shot), and McBride (solid PG with the body type to guard Trae Young), and having Luca (instead of Payton)? Plus, you get another year of development and experience with RJ, IQ, and Toppin. The Knicks essentially believe in these guys.

Trust the Process
MS
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8/2/2021  10:44 PM
This was a ****ing disgrace plain and simple.

Swing for Lonzo whose elite on defense and shooting the ball with room to improve the team with his playmaking.

Fourniers playoff numbers are embarrassingly paid.

You don’t overpay guys unless you are close. Our cap is now ****ed with extensions for Mitch and Randle coming. Just embarrassing day all around.

Good job Knicks. Welcome to complete SALARY CAP HELL (for the next 3 years too).

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