MaTT4281 wrote:Trade suggests we do have a plan, and decided none of the top guys on the board at 19 and 21 were part of it. No plan would be staying put, either taking a guy you're lukewarm on, or take your guys 5-10 spots higher than necessary.

Not thrilled with the Charlotte trade, but mom sent us to the store and wanted her change back. We bought a gift card.

I think they had guys they liked at 19 and 21 but knew they would still be there at 25 and 36. I means the newspapers were right all along who we wanted so it was not a secret. We just manipulated the draft to squeeze extra assets out of our original picks.

VDesai wrote:All things considered, the price was reasonable. Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, the Hornets' first-rounder will be top-18 protected next year, top-16 protected in 2023 and then lottery-protected in 2024 and 2025 before converting into a pair of future second-rounders if not conveyed by that point. So the highest this pick can be (No. 15) is just four spots better -- not much compared to the usual premium teams pay when trading future picks for current ones.

Yeah, this was a dud, we were likely trading Two Current #1's to move up 4-5 spots in a deep draft and the Clippers trade the same pick number in a future draft that likely doesn't have the depth this draft had ... Present day value of anything is worth more than any futures of equal value, we got back less BIGLY IMO. We could have had a great stable of young, cheap assets to build a team.

RSparrow2 wrote:

VDesai wrote:All things considered, the price was reasonable. Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, the Hornets' first-rounder will be top-18 protected next year, top-16 protected in 2023 and then lottery-protected in 2024 and 2025 before converting into a pair of future second-rounders if not conveyed by that point. So the highest this pick can be (No. 15) is just four spots better -- not much compared to the usual premium teams pay when trading future picks for current ones.

Yeah, this was a dud, we were likely trading Two Current #1's to move up 4-5 spots in a deep draft and the Clippers trade the same pick number in a future draft that likely doesn't have the depth this draft had ... Present day value of anything is worth more than any futures of equal value, we got back less BIGLY IMO. We could have had a great stable of young, cheap assets to build a team.

My guess is that the Charlotte pick transfers in 2023. That said, if they wanted Grimes and McBride on their draft board, then they executed well. They weren’t getting Duarte or Trey Murphy. I imagine Grimes was their 3rd as a 3&D wing.

They probably saved $1mm of cap space vs where they could have taken these guys.

Nalod wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:

VDesai wrote:All things considered, the price was reasonable. Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, the Hornets' first-rounder will be top-18 protected next year, top-16 protected in 2023 and then lottery-protected in 2024 and 2025 before converting into a pair of future second-rounders if not conveyed by that point. So the highest this pick can be (No. 15) is just four spots better -- not much compared to the usual premium teams pay when trading future picks for current ones.

Yeah, this was a dud, we were likely trading Two Current #1's to move up 4-5 spots in a deep draft and the Clippers trade the same pick number in a future draft that likely doesn't have the depth this draft had ... Present day value of anything is worth more than any futures of equal value, we got back less BIGLY IMO. We could have had a great stable of young, cheap assets to build a team.

You may be right. But its premature to call it. If the knicks got what they wanted later then it’s conceivable they got the charlotte pick as a bonus. If they don’t value Kai Jones NOW then why build a stable you don’t want? Logically I see where your coming from but there there is a bigger picture we can’t see and in time will bring into focus the logic.
The 19 might have been trade fodder on a draft day trade that did not materialize or needs more clarity.

yeah but there were so many high value players left at that spot, irrelevant what we wanted. Teams are willing to pay for NOW value, terrible negotiation of that protection. As far as people saying it's a future trade chip? it's a devalued trade chip with those protections, another team will ask for our #1 with little to no protection instead of taking that #1...the the Knicks are one of the few that would do that ..

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

It seems to me that the knicks really don't have a future plan. we planned for Lebron, Melo, Irving, Durant and others and got nothing. So why should I believe they have a plan. Maybe they got lucky with Randel.

Who would you have taken at 19 and 21? Hard to say we can guarantee they would be better than Grimes. I wanted Trey or Tre and they were gone so not too disappointed. Did feel they should have taken Butler or Cooper with one of their second rounders though. But it's obvious they saw the same thing so many other teams that decided to pass.

Bottom line is that they drafted with certain players in mind on their board. With the strategy that if they were not available they would rather trade for assets. Grimes and McBride seems to be guys who they were targeting and they knew they could get them lower so why not add some assets. Shows they were well organized and had a good feel where other teams would go.

Meanwhile, as they look to build the roster, they added Rokas, another Detroit 2nd (we have used this years, and now have 2023 and 2024), we have a future 1st. Can’t tell you what Keon Johnson becomes. Or Usman Garuba. But even if all we did was add depth at 11-15 on the roster, we have functional players there instead of projects.

We have a project at 58, but holy f——, a 6’10 250 guy that has a 40” vertical. That’s sick. I wanted that guy at 32. McBride at 21. Grimes wasn’t really on my radar.

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:

TheGame wrote:

VDesai wrote:All things considered, the price was reasonable. Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, the Hornets' first-rounder will be top-18 protected next year, top-16 protected in 2023 and then lottery-protected in 2024 and 2025 before converting into a pair of future second-rounders if not conveyed by that point. So the highest this pick can be (No. 15) is just four spots better -- not much compared to the usual premium teams pay when trading future picks for current ones.

I probably would have pushed for it to be only top-16 protected first year, top-10 protected in second year and then top-7 protected. The Hornets are on the rise but they have been on the rise before and fallen flat. There is a decent chance we only get two second round picks out of this. Jones was a very good prospect. He needs 2-3 years, but in 3 years the kid could a better shooting Mitch.

My problem is this was a DEEP draft. By all accounts one that happens once every 10 years or so (but time will tell.)
You don't sell low on that. You get a premium.

That said, I'm very happy with getting two of our apparent targets in Grimes and Mcbride.
It is pretty clear that Thibs wasn't (and isn't) going to play any young guys much and he wanted 2 way players for the most part.

We have SO MUCH cap space, I would have preferred rolling the dice in a deep draft on a high upside guy, much like the Spurs did at 12 with Primo.
Again, that said, let's see what happens but with trades and what not. If not much,... then we've done it again by blowing a good pick. It will be years before we get another draft this good imo.

You know we are all gonna be watching those guys selected at 19 to 24 or so.

Canitgetanyworse? We'll see...

Its interesting, Knicks maybe didn't think it was that deep after their targets didn't fall to 19. They had 2 players they still really liked, but somehow knew exactly where they would need to be to get them (or just had good enough contingencies). Based on that they felt like they could add the same # of players, but net more assets for future years. I think you can quibble with the return for trading out of 19 (you can argue the protections on the pick should have been less or we should have gotten a 2nd rounder on top), but I don't think you can quibble too much with the strategy.

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:

TheGame wrote:

VDesai wrote:All things considered, the price was reasonable. Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, the Hornets' first-rounder will be top-18 protected next year, top-16 protected in 2023 and then lottery-protected in 2024 and 2025 before converting into a pair of future second-rounders if not conveyed by that point. So the highest this pick can be (No. 15) is just four spots better -- not much compared to the usual premium teams pay when trading future picks for current ones.

I probably would have pushed for it to be only top-16 protected first year, top-10 protected in second year and then top-7 protected. The Hornets are on the rise but they have been on the rise before and fallen flat. There is a decent chance we only get two second round picks out of this. Jones was a very good prospect. He needs 2-3 years, but in 3 years the kid could a better shooting Mitch.

My problem is this was a DEEP draft. By all accounts one that happens once every 10 years or so (but time will tell.)
You don't sell low on that. You get a premium.

That said, I'm very happy with getting two of our apparent targets in Grimes and Mcbride.
It is pretty clear that Thibs wasn't (and isn't) going to play any young guys much and he wanted 2 way players for the most part.

We have SO MUCH cap space, I would have preferred rolling the dice in a deep draft on a high upside guy, much like the Spurs did at 12 with Primo.
Again, that said, let's see what happens but with trades and what not. If not much,... then we've done it again by blowing a good pick. It will be years before we get another draft this good imo.

You know we are all gonna be watching those guys selected at 19 to 24 or so.

Canitgetanyworse? We'll see...

If Kai Jones, Keon Johnsom, Jalen Johnson become stars, you still have to wonder whether that would have happened in NY. Would Jalen Johnson have the mental fortitude to handle NY? Just because a player does well doesn't mean they would have done well here. Would Knox have been better in Orlando? Probably. I think the Knicks picked tough players with strong mentality.

EwingsGlass wrote:

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:

TheGame wrote:

VDesai wrote:All things considered, the price was reasonable. Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, the Hornets' first-rounder will be top-18 protected next year, top-16 protected in 2023 and then lottery-protected in 2024 and 2025 before converting into a pair of future second-rounders if not conveyed by that point. So the highest this pick can be (No. 15) is just four spots better -- not much compared to the usual premium teams pay when trading future picks for current ones.

I probably would have pushed for it to be only top-16 protected first year, top-10 protected in second year and then top-7 protected. The Hornets are on the rise but they have been on the rise before and fallen flat. There is a decent chance we only get two second round picks out of this. Jones was a very good prospect. He needs 2-3 years, but in 3 years the kid could a better shooting Mitch.

My problem is this was a DEEP draft. By all accounts one that happens once every 10 years or so (but time will tell.)
You don't sell low on that. You get a premium.

That said, I'm very happy with getting two of our apparent targets in Grimes and Mcbride.
It is pretty clear that Thibs wasn't (and isn't) going to play any young guys much and he wanted 2 way players for the most part.

We have SO MUCH cap space, I would have preferred rolling the dice in a deep draft on a high upside guy, much like the Spurs did at 12 with Primo.
Again, that said, let's see what happens but with trades and what not. If not much,... then we've done it again by blowing a good pick. It will be years before we get another draft this good imo.

You know we are all gonna be watching those guys selected at 19 to 24 or so.

Canitgetanyworse? We'll see...

If Kai Jones, Keon Johnsom, Jalen Johnson become stars, you still have to wonder whether that would have happened in NY. Would Jalen Johnson have the mental fortitude to handle NY? Just because a player does well doesn't mean they would have done well here. Would Knox have been better in Orlando? Probably. I think the Knicks picked tough players with strong mentality.

You bring up a very fair point - Can these guys play in N.Y.? It is always something to consider.
But do you really think the lotto talent sitting (potentially) at picks 19-23 all couldn't? It just seems like we didn't prepare for this (judging by the return on pick 19.) Seems like a last minute thing.

Re Knox, I like the kid. He is a great shooter imo but can't do a whole lot else. Never crossed my mind that he couldn't play defense or drive and score regularly because of N.Y. (LOL /jk)

Like I said, I'm happy with our picks, but letting 19 go like that (in this very strong draft) is inexcusable (unless of course we need every bit of the cap space but that would mean deals are done.) You don't hope on that and relatively
speaking we have a whole lot of cap space, so do you let 19 go so easily over around 2 million in salary when we have so much projected cap space? Doesn't make sense to me (barring deals already arranged.)

Projection for 2021-22 ($112,414,000 cap): Up to $70.2 million in cap space, $52.7 million with Julius Randle’s partially-guaranteed $19.8 million.

I'm not giving the team a pass on #19 because of doing well with our other picks.

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

CanItGetAnyWorse wrote:

TheGame wrote:

VDesai wrote:All things considered, the price was reasonable. Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, the Hornets' first-rounder will be top-18 protected next year, top-16 protected in 2023 and then lottery-protected in 2024 and 2025 before converting into a pair of future second-rounders if not conveyed by that point. So the highest this pick can be (No. 15) is just four spots better -- not much compared to the usual premium teams pay when trading future picks for current ones.

I probably would have pushed for it to be only top-16 protected first year, top-10 protected in second year and then top-7 protected. The Hornets are on the rise but they have been on the rise before and fallen flat. There is a decent chance we only get two second round picks out of this. Jones was a very good prospect. He needs 2-3 years, but in 3 years the kid could a better shooting Mitch.

My problem is this was a DEEP draft. By all accounts one that happens once every 10 years or so (but time will tell.)
You don't sell low on that. You get a premium.

That said, I'm very happy with getting two of our apparent targets in Grimes and Mcbride.
It is pretty clear that Thibs wasn't (and isn't) going to play any young guys much and he wanted 2 way players for the most part.

We have SO MUCH cap space, I would have preferred rolling the dice in a deep draft on a high upside guy, much like the Spurs did at 12 with Primo.
Again, that said, let's see what happens but with trades and what not. If not much,... then we've done it again by blowing a good pick. It will be years before we get another draft this good imo.

You know we are all gonna be watching those guys selected at 19 to 24 or so.

Canitgetanyworse? We'll see...

If Kai Jones, Keon Johnsom, Jalen Johnson become stars, you still have to wonder whether that would have happened in NY. Would Jalen Johnson have the mental fortitude to handle NY? Just because a player does well doesn't mean they would have done well here. Would Knox have been better in Orlando? Probably. I think the Knicks picked tough players with strong mentality.

You bring up a very fair point - Can these guys play in N.Y.? It is always something to consider.
But do you really think the lotto talent sitting (potentially) at picks 19-23 all couldn't? It just seems like we didn't prepare for this (judging by the return on pick 19.) Seems like a last minute thing.

Re Knox, I like the kid. He is a great shooter imo but can't do a whole lot else. Never crossed my mind that he couldn't play defense or drive and score regularly because of N.Y. (LOL /jk)

Like I said, I'm happy with our picks, but letting 19 go like that (in this very strong draft) is inexcusable (unless of course we need every bit of the cap space but that would mean deals are done.) You don't hope on that and relatively
speaking we have a whole lot of cap space, so do you let 19 go so easily over around 2 million in salary when we have so much projected cap space? Doesn't make sense to me (barring deals already arranged.)

Projection for 2021-22 ($112,414,000 cap): Up to $70.2 million in cap space, $52.7 million with Julius Randle’s partially-guaranteed $19.8 million.

I'm not giving the team a pass on #19 because of doing well with our other picks.

Who did you love at 19 that is unforgivable to pass on? I assumed we were getting one of Duarte or Trey Murphy. I’d guess Grimes was third on our board for that role. I liked the possibility of Keon Johnson and his insane vertical. But his fundamentals are deeply flawed.

No one loves when you get a push except when it looks like you are going to lose the hand. We lost out on Murphy and Duarte. Better luck next year.

Knicks may not have gotten the best draws here, but they did pretty damn well with what they had and made some pretty solid moves to create asset value while getting the players at the range that they valued them.

People bitched about Quickley being picked too early. Unclear where Toppin ends up in the grand scheme. Gotta give these moves a chance based solely on track record.

gradyandrew wrote:I think other teams think on "Who will we draft?" While the Knicks think 'Who do we want to draft?"

The CHA trade stings, but I agree with Hofstra and Clean.

This.

We’re being patient for once. I think it’s a decent bet Charlotte’s pick is in the lottery or at least higher than 19 in a better draft