Philc1 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

It's quite simple. One team allows Frank to play, the other team doubts his ability. Waiting for Bullock to get hot, while being completely outplayed offensively, is a recipe for disaster. This guy plays chest to chest defense, when given the time. It will be sad to see Frank's growth when he's on a team that appreciates his gifts.

This is pretty much the bottom line. Instead of working him into the team, the Knicks did everything they could to marginalize him.

I've heard plenty of "he didn't *earn* it" rhetoric but truth of the matter with younger player is that you play them, hold your nose when they suck, and reinforce them as they learn. He needs a fresh start anywhere but here.

Whatever he becomes he becomes. But his upside could be significant and higher than a lot of the wish-we-had-this-guy-or-that chort being discussed here.

How long do you have to hold your nose from the stench before playing guys that actually win you games?

I'll say this, when your defensive stopper can't fit the bill, and can't hit the ocean with his shots, it's time to try something different. It's similar to the Starks game against the Rockets. Change of pace please.

Frank shot over 40% from 3 this year. We saw with RJ people can improve at shooting

he didn't even avg 3 ppg this season..

Philc1 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

It's quite simple. One team allows Frank to play, the other team doubts his ability. Waiting for Bullock to get hot, while being completely outplayed offensively, is a recipe for disaster. This guy plays chest to chest defense, when given the time. It will be sad to see Frank's growth when he's on a team that appreciates his gifts.

This is pretty much the bottom line. Instead of working him into the team, the Knicks did everything they could to marginalize him.

I've heard plenty of "he didn't *earn* it" rhetoric but truth of the matter with younger player is that you play them, hold your nose when they suck, and reinforce them as they learn. He needs a fresh start anywhere but here.

Whatever he becomes he becomes. But his upside could be significant and higher than a lot of the wish-we-had-this-guy-or-that chort being discussed here.

How long do you have to hold your nose from the stench before playing guys that actually win you games?

I'll say this, when your defensive stopper can't fit the bill, and can't hit the ocean with his shots, it's time to try something different. It's similar to the Starks game against the Rockets. Change of pace please.

Frank shot over 40% from 3 this year. We saw with RJ people can improve at shooting

That's so cute. 40% on 50 whole shots. Great sample size. That's like telling us about how many shots he hits in his Youtube vids.
Next up; Frank played in 13 games in a row without an injury! We've seen how people can become durable!

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Interesting that Frank is still only 22! Younger than Obi btw.

“Excuses”………his age, his continental cultural background, his 4 coaches, his Triangle destiny ruined!
He is 22 and biologically might be even younger than that. Given his draft position he has been a bust.
Can he turn that narrative to “late bloomer”?
Or is he on the “Mudiay Trajectory”?

I don't present Frank's age as an "excuse" btw -- I simply found it interesting. Also interesting to me and obviously many others here is the overall story itself -- "The Ballad of Frankie Smokes." As a fan I've been in his corner since the days of Phil excoriations of him as a "triangle pick." His teases of talent are what they are -- teases. Responsibility is on his side of the street. But as a fan I would have loved to have seen him get it together and be a player for us. But fair or not, analysis of the Frank story includes reflection on the Knicks' history with young players and their development. Not good in a nutshell. So you're bound to have a lot of what ifs and even excuses. To me ultimately it just feels disappointing, sad even. I would like to see him get one more - real - shot with the Knicks. But I sense that won't happen.

fwk00 wrote:
This is pretty much the bottom line. Instead of working him into the team, the Knicks did everything they could to marginalize him.

I've heard plenty of "he didn't *earn* it" rhetoric but truth of the matter with younger player is that you play them, hold your nose when they suck, and reinforce them as they learn. He needs a fresh start anywhere but here.

Whatever he becomes he becomes. But his upside could be significant and higher than a lot of the wish-we-had-this-guy-or-that chort being discussed here.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/gamelog/2018

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/gamelog/2019

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/gamelog/2020

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/ntilila01/gamelog/2021

*****

Ntilikina didn't EARN more playing time.

Look at his career shooting splits. Then look at them across his entire Knicks career. 211 games, 55 starts, close to 4200 minutes in the NBA. Look at his regular season game logs.

This past season, his three ball percentage went up because he was only willing to take wide open set shots without any coverage ( i.e. "empty gym shots") He did that to preserve his three point percentage this year, likely under the advice of his agent, so he'd have a selling point as a free agent. This increased percentage is happening a low volume and without any consistency.

Can Ntilikina get to the rim effectively? No. Can he finish there effectively? No. How is his ball security? His handle is actually pretty mediocre for a supposed point guard. How is his court vision? It's horrific. Notice the difference between Quickley and Frank N. Quickley does not always make the right decision, however he is decisive and keeps the ball moving. Phil Jackson picked Frank N believing he would help in the Triangle Offense. One of the basics of the Triangle is an "automatic", key situations where the right decision is always to pass and keep the ball moving. Frank N is not a good decision maker at NBA game speed and he hesitates too often because he can't read the floor.

JJ Redick and Kyle Korver in the past few years have both given pretty blunt interviews talking about refusing to shoot when you have the high percentage opportunity during a possession is actually the selfish play. Redick has been pretty open several times that early in his career he didn't shoot when he should have ( thinking the right play was to keep the ball moving) and that it actually hurt his team overall.

Ntilikina refuses to attack the rim. That's not timid, it's selfish. Ntilikina refuses to work harder to move off the ball. That's selfish. Ntilikina won't take a contested shot on a consistent basis. That's selfish.

He's a selfish player. He plays like he expects everyone to flow off of his game and move off the ball according to his design. Which would be fine if he was the teams offensive engine. But he's not that skilled and doesn't produce at that level.

We are talking over FOUR THOUSAND MINUTES in the NBA. How much rope do you want to give someone to hang this team. A players rookie year, there's some give and take because the player doesn't understand many things. However, at some point after a players rookie year, he has to do something to help his team win basketball games and earn a spot in the rotation to stay on the floor.

Did having a coaching carousel help him? No. Did a lack of stability in general help him? No. Did Fizdale and Phil Jackson help him ( both are idiots)? No. But it's still Frank N's job to find a way to help his team win. Sometimes you go to a good team, sometimes you go to a bad team, either way, everyone has to overcome something.

So no, across Frank Ntilikina's entire Knicks career, he didn't EARN more minutes and he didn't EARN a starting job or a place in the rotation. And it was ALWAYS there for the taking. He just had to seize it. He didn't. He's a decent wing defender but overall a net negative player.

You are entitled to your own opinions. However you don't get to change the facts. Look at the game logs. Look at ALL OF THEM. What does the story of those game logs tell? Look at Frank Ntilikina's career efficiencies, esp his horrific true shooting percentage? What does that say? Use the basic eye test when watching do a dribble handoff and remove himself entirely from the play, over and over again, leaving his offense working 4 versus 5 most of the time. And if Noel is out there to actually anchor the defense, it's 3 vs 5. ( At least Noel has a reason for being out there)

How does Frank Ntilikina help the Knicks win basketball games? He doesn't. That's the bottom line.

TheGame wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

It's quite simple. One team allows Frank to play, the other team doubts his ability. Waiting for Bullock to get hot, while being completely outplayed offensively, is a recipe for disaster. This guy plays chest to chest defense, when given the time. It will be sad to see Frank's growth when he's on a team that appreciates his gifts.

The music gets me hyped and this video shows more action than the one I posted. It looks like Frank has continued to work on his handle and his shot. If he ever gets on a team that builds up his confidence, then watch out.

I don't know. I love Frank because we drafted him, he is a premier defender both on-ball and help. I love him because he is not selfish. Fans that value buckets over defense will never like Frank. I say buckets because offense is not just about getting individual buckets.

NYKBocker wrote:Watching FIBA games and I think I have an explanation on why FIBA Frank looks so good. In FIBA, refs let them play. Touch fouls are not called. Just ask Team USA. Frank really gets into the players and shuts them down. In the NBA, he gets into foul trouble when the refs decide to protect the star player that he is guarding. I mean, there are so many YouTube videos of players like Kyrie getting calls when Frank doesn't even touch them. Because of this, he has a lot of confidence in FIBA games which helps with his offensive game. Plus, his coach and teammates actually shows confidence in him. With the Knicks, I think his teammates genuinely likes him and shows confidence. His coaches tell a different story. Also, even in the NBA, you can see him shutting people down even with the way refs call the games.

I don't know. I love Frank because we drafted him, he is a premier defender both on-ball and help. I love him because he is not selfish. Fans that value buckets over defense will never like Frank. I say buckets because offense is not just about getting individual buckets.

Frank Ntilikina is incredibly selfish.

Is he playing in FIBA when he plays for the Knicks? No, so he needs to adjust to do what it takes to help the Knicks win actual basketball games.

But that's not Frank N's comfort zone! Who gives a **** what makes Ntilikina the most mother****ing comfortable?

Do all of you love each and every aspect of your career or job or work? Do any of you march into your bosses office and say you can't do the job the way your company wants it done because that's not how you did it in the past for a different company? Try doing that. See how long that **** lasts before you get fired.

If Frank N wants to play by FIBA rules and in a Euro style, then retire from the NBA, give the Knicks their money back and go play in Europe instead.

Where the **** is this narrative coming from, from so many of you here, not all of you, but sadly a staggering number of you, that Frank Ntilikina has no obligation to the Knicks to subvert what he wants and what makes him comfortable to actual do what it takes to help this team win actual basketball games. You know - HIS MOTHERFUCKING JOB.

Apparently everyone else is an ******* for saying Frank Ntilikina is going to have to do some **** he doesn't want to do because that's what it means to GO TO WORK and WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE and FULFILL AN OBLIGATION YOU MADE BY CHOICE.

Offense is a TEAM EFFORT. Is Frank N doing his part to help the Knicks succeed on offense? He's not. It's not like every other NBA team is beating down the door to trade for him and the Knicks had him on the trade block for two years straight.

The excuses some of you make for Ntilikina make no sense for basic life survival. I mean if some of you tried to pull the **** that Frank N is pulling here and has done for years, most of you would be homeless for it. I mean JFC, how hard is the concept that you are paid to do a job, you take that job by choice, but you won't love every single moment of your job, but you created your own obligation and duty to answer to someone else's expectations, and irritation/discomfort/weariness/frustration/anger/wishing you were somewhere getting drunk and getting your dick sucked instead - that's why it's called work.

The mind boggling ass kissing of Frank Ntilikina requires some of you to be reminded of the entire concept of working for a living. Seriously, with chocolate sprinkles on top, what the ****.

jrodmc wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

It's quite simple. One team allows Frank to play, the other team doubts his ability. Waiting for Bullock to get hot, while being completely outplayed offensively, is a recipe for disaster. This guy plays chest to chest defense, when given the time. It will be sad to see Frank's growth when he's on a team that appreciates his gifts.

This is pretty much the bottom line. Instead of working him into the team, the Knicks did everything they could to marginalize him.

I've heard plenty of "he didn't *earn* it" rhetoric but truth of the matter with younger player is that you play them, hold your nose when they suck, and reinforce them as they learn. He needs a fresh start anywhere but here.

Whatever he becomes he becomes. But his upside could be significant and higher than a lot of the wish-we-had-this-guy-or-that chort being discussed here.

How long do you have to hold your nose from the stench before playing guys that actually win you games?

I'll say this, when your defensive stopper can't fit the bill, and can't hit the ocean with his shots, it's time to try something different. It's similar to the Starks game against the Rockets. Change of pace please.

Frank shot over 40% from 3 this year. We saw with RJ people can improve at shooting

That's so cute. 40% on 50 whole shots. Great sample size. That's like telling us about how many shots he hits in his Youtube vids.
Next up; Frank played in 13 games in a row without an injury! We've seen how people can become durable!

Yeah I know he sucks he didn’t make 50 of 50 3s

Philc1 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

It's quite simple. One team allows Frank to play, the other team doubts his ability. Waiting for Bullock to get hot, while being completely outplayed offensively, is a recipe for disaster. This guy plays chest to chest defense, when given the time. It will be sad to see Frank's growth when he's on a team that appreciates his gifts.

This is pretty much the bottom line. Instead of working him into the team, the Knicks did everything they could to marginalize him.

I've heard plenty of "he didn't *earn* it" rhetoric but truth of the matter with younger player is that you play them, hold your nose when they suck, and reinforce them as they learn. He needs a fresh start anywhere but here.

Whatever he becomes he becomes. But his upside could be significant and higher than a lot of the wish-we-had-this-guy-or-that chort being discussed here.

How long do you have to hold your nose from the stench before playing guys that actually win you games?

I'll say this, when your defensive stopper can't fit the bill, and can't hit the ocean with his shots, it's time to try something different. It's similar to the Starks game against the Rockets. Change of pace please.

Frank shot over 40% from 3 this year. We saw with RJ people can improve at shooting

That's so cute. 40% on 50 whole shots. Great sample size. That's like telling us about how many shots he hits in his Youtube vids.
Next up; Frank played in 13 games in a row without an injury! We've seen how people can become durable!

Yeah I know he sucks he didn’t make 50 of 50 3s

Yeah, you're right. He doesn't suck. He makes all his shots on Youtube! Hey, wait, there were two or three weeks in a row where he didn't have a turnover! Frank's the greatest PG in the game!