wargames wrote:

fwk00 wrote:So Randle, Bullock, and Payton all share the same agent...
I get a bad vibe about this.

Sort of explains why Payton started so much. Still worrisome overall.

Randle was the offensive engine for this team this past season. He and Payton had history together before the Knicks. If it helps Randle carry that load to start Payton, then so be it. It's not like there were a wealth of options most of the season otherwise. Payton would have the occasional big game. Frank N did pretty much bupkis.

Analytics departs in the NBA do not operate like the rest of the traditional front offices. They talk to each other. There are only so many ways to crunch the math and numbers of a players salary projections and his rest of career projections. In general, Bullock's future valuation has already been assessed on a numbers level to the calculator brigades. Whether GMs heed that advice is another story.

How it used to work is the squeaky wheel got replaced. I.E. if you were a scout or a low level front office guy and you said the contrarian thing too much, then you weren't a "team player" and you got ostracized. But analytics has changed everything. Now you just submit a sheet and say this is what a player is projected to do, here are his career level comparisons, here is his injury risk for the long term and here is what he's worth. And then the guy from the calculator brigade walks away. Portland and Charlotte had a hard time, for a long time, finding good talent in their analytics departments for the way they treated Rich Cho. So you can't just run over your analytics people.

Phil Jackson knew his clock was ticking when he signed Noah and Courtney Lee to those horrible deals. And made that boneheaded Derrick Rose trade. He didn't care about 5 years down the road when 5 months down the road as in question. Otis Smith made some pretty stupid decisions to try to appease Dwight Howard when his job was on the line. Troy Weaver just had an incredible year with the Pistons, his job is more than secure now and he can take a risk or two and walk away from it. Others are not so lucky or did as well. A lot of times, that starts to factor into some deals that get overpaid or not. A GM on the hot seat wants to be able to tell his owner he did something/anything to turn around a hot mess.

Bullock's market value is already known to the entire league. That's not a secret. If he's overpaid is another story, that's more complicated to the situation built around his franchise in place given the current situation. The Knicks did well so they have less incentive to overpay him by contract length.

Sharing the same agent isn't that relevant here. It is, to be fair, relevant in some other different situations.

VDesai wrote:I thought Payton was a favorite of Perry's going back to when he was drafted. Payton was an NCAA defensive player of the year and should have been a good fit her vs. Thibs. But as the year went on he was playing a different basketball game than the rest of his teammates.

After rose got here and started eating up his minutes he slowly stop playing hard and looked kind of discourage.

I think it was a combination of randles ball handling duties, Rose trade, and the fact that he knew he would not be back, that's the back lash of giving players 1 yr deals.

Ira wrote:Bullock's d puts him ahead of Burks in my mind. Bullock did shoot 41% from 3 pt range as well.

Problem is Burks can actually create his own shot while Bullock is strictly a catch and shoot guy on offense. His defense is ok but better players can pretty much score on him at will

Philc1 wrote:

VDesai wrote:Also you have to be careful on Burks and how much to pay him. Personally, I think Burks is awesome. 1 in 5 games he is like Kobe. In all honestly every team needs a guy like him who can be instant offense and get his own shots. That said, the range of salary guys like him yield is madness. You have Burks who's been on many teams signing 1 year 5 mm type deals, and then you have Tim Hardaway Jr getting 20mm per year. I have watched enough of both to know that there's not a ton of difference between those guys on end product. So given that range you've gotta be careful what you do.

We were one stop away from going up 1-0 on the Hawks. That series changes completely because we probably win game 2 and go up 2-0.

Burks had 27 points off the bench that game. I know he didn’t produce the same afterwards but I totally agree his ability to create offense off the bench is something we haven’t really had since John Starks in the 90’s or maybe Spree when he came off the bench when he first got here. I’d off 1 year $9 million

It's a tough choice between Burks and Bullock, but at the end of the day neither of them could guard Trae or any of the big wings on ATL (that will be there next season) so the issues will still exist if they are retain.

Bullock is a decent catch and shoot player, but he settles for 3's way more than he should, he really can't create his own shot.

Burks at 6 3" is sort of a combo guard, but he's too small to guard anyone over 6 5", and in league where switching on D is the Norm, he's not such a great option.

I'm done with 1 yr balloon deals

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

VDesai wrote:Also you have to be careful on Burks and how much to pay him. Personally, I think Burks is awesome. 1 in 5 games he is like Kobe. In all honestly every team needs a guy like him who can be instant offense and get his own shots. That said, the range of salary guys like him yield is madness. You have Burks who's been on many teams signing 1 year 5 mm type deals, and then you have Tim Hardaway Jr getting 20mm per year. I have watched enough of both to know that there's not a ton of difference between those guys on end product. So given that range you've gotta be careful what you do.

We were one stop away from going up 1-0 on the Hawks. That series changes completely because we probably win game 2 and go up 2-0.

Burks had 27 points off the bench that game. I know he didn’t produce the same afterwards but I totally agree his ability to create offense off the bench is something we haven’t really had since John Starks in the 90’s or maybe Spree when he came off the bench when he first got here. I’d off 1 year $9 million

It's a tough choice between Burks and Bullock, but at the end of the day neither of them could guard Trae or any of the big wings on ATL (that will be there next season) so the issues will still exist if they are retain.

Bullock is a decent catch and shoot player, but he settles for 3's way more than he should, he really can't create his own shot.

Burks at 6 3" is sort of a combo guard, but he's too small to guard anyone over 6 5", and in league where switching on D is the Norm, he's not such a great option.

I'm done with 1 yr balloon deals

I thought Burks was 6'6"? He played both guard (on and off the ball) as well as SF last year for the Knicks

Correct. Burks a legit 6'5" without shoes

Chandler wrote:I would very much like to see Burks again

Reggie i liked but it will come down to price

big factors for me: Alex could hit shots in 4th quarter; a lot of guys tighten up when it matters most. I thought Alex did well. Caveat: this is based on eyeball test, not checking stats.

Reggie was a bit too inconsistent for me. It made his hot games all the more enjoyable but i think we need more reliable shooting from him if his only offense is spot ups

I don't think either of them should be Plan A, B, perhaps plan C.

There's a lot of options out there better than these 2, but maybe the kicks thinking would be to try and retain one (2 yr deal) to keep as much continuity as we can

knicks1248 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

VDesai wrote:Also you have to be careful on Burks and how much to pay him. Personally, I think Burks is awesome. 1 in 5 games he is like Kobe. In all honestly every team needs a guy like him who can be instant offense and get his own shots. That said, the range of salary guys like him yield is madness. You have Burks who's been on many teams signing 1 year 5 mm type deals, and then you have Tim Hardaway Jr getting 20mm per year. I have watched enough of both to know that there's not a ton of difference between those guys on end product. So given that range you've gotta be careful what you do.

We were one stop away from going up 1-0 on the Hawks. That series changes completely because we probably win game 2 and go up 2-0.

Burks had 27 points off the bench that game. I know he didn’t produce the same afterwards but I totally agree his ability to create offense off the bench is something we haven’t really had since John Starks in the 90’s or maybe Spree when he came off the bench when he first got here. I’d off 1 year $9 million

It's a tough choice between Burks and Bullock, but at the end of the day neither of them could guard Trae or any of the big wings on ATL (that will be there next season) so the issues will still exist if they are retain.

Bullock is a decent catch and shoot player, but he settles for 3's way more than he should, he really can't create his own shot.

Burks at 6 3" is sort of a combo guard, but he's too small to guard anyone over 6 5", and in league where switching on D is the Norm, he's not such a great option.

I'm done with 1 yr balloon deals

I like the one year balloon deals. Overpay a guy who helps the team for a year and then the following season he walks and the team gets cap room back