Jmpasq wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:They clearly have the 2 best PG's in the east, and have shooting at almost every position, when healthy they are the 2 best teams in the EAST..they have the ability to switch on everything on both ends

I feel like your PG has to be the 1A or 1B on your roster, he's either have to be your first or 2nd option (best player) on your team.

We can Not have Randle as our Primary Ball Handler full time, especially in the playoffs.

we need Trae and Kyrie working on the defensive and you have to have length and speed to guard their big Wings, (gallo, KD, Hunter, Bogdon, Harris)

We just need upgrades at the PG/SF/C, and all of them need to know how to shoot from the perimeter

This isn't realistic.

The only realistic scenario is building a team that is next in line to take over.

Nets will break down in 2-3 yrs.
Hawks capitalized on the draft pick and cap space combination they had available. But I don't see them as a long term power house as it stands. To many players due for salary increase around the same time. They can look to see if they can package Collins(S&T), Huerter, Onyeka, future draft pick(s) to land a bonefide stud for the long term to pair with Young, Hunter, Capela though.

Knicks should be looking to build up depth and assets over the next 2 seasons.
Trade one of these first rounders for more future picks for the war chest to land a stud.
Hit on one of these draft picks as a long term piece
Need Vildoza to actually be good
Use the available cap to build quality depth.

Then we should of tanked this year if thats the plan

Suggs would have solved so many problems

knicks1248 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:They clearly have the 2 best PG's in the east, and have shooting at almost every position, when healthy they are the 2 best teams in the EAST..they have the ability to switch on everything on both ends

I feel like your PG has to be the 1A or 1B on your roster, he's either have to be your first or 2nd option (best player) on your team.

We can Not have Randle as our Primary Ball Handler full time, especially in the playoffs.

we need Trae and Kyrie working on the defensive and you have to have length and speed to guard their big Wings, (gallo, KD, Hunter, Bogdon, Harris)

We just need upgrades at the PG/SF/C, and all of them need to know how to shoot from the perimeter

This isn't realistic.

The only realistic scenario is building a team that is next in line to take over.

Nets will break down in 2-3 yrs.
Hawks capitalized on the draft pick and cap space combination they had available. But I don't see them as a long term power house as it stands. To many players due for salary increase around the same time. They can look to see if they can package Collins(S&T), Huerter, Onyeka, future draft pick(s) to land a bonefide stud for the long term to pair with Young, Hunter, Capela though.

Knicks should be looking to build up depth and assets over the next 2 seasons.
Trade one of these first rounders for more future picks for the war chest to land a stud.
Hit on one of these draft picks as a long term piece
Need Vildoza to actually be good
Use the available cap to build quality depth.

Then we should of tanked this year if thats the plan

People said that, but it’s more relevant in hindsight.

We’re just fans, so opinions mean nothing.

Honestly I think everyone would feel better if Randle played better during the post season. Then again that also was a reality check we needed. Even if we’re bumping with the end of the Nets primes, the Knicks can build a competitive team. Maybe we’ll get lucky and pull a Suns vs. Lakers and shut the window on them.

The Knicks are and will always be competitive as long as THIBS is the coach.

We were the 4th seed, so next season should be top 3 some of you are still stuck in the Mills era..

Odds are higher that the team as is will decline from the 4th seed more so than improve to the 3 seed.

Us improving to top 3 seed depends on the additions we bring in. In comparison to the additions that the other teams bring in.

Hawks, Heat, Celtics, Wizards, Pacers, Hornets, Bulls, all have enough young talent and flexibility to become better than what they were last yr.

smackeddog wrote:This thread, man! Essentially:

We have to build a roster that matches up with the best teams in the league

Plan:

1) Sign good FAs at low prices
2) Draft great player
3) Trade spare first round pick for multiple high future first rounders
4) Have 3$mil per existing player turn out to be very good

That's a dream not a plan!

That's how it usually goes honestly.

For this 41 win season we needed Randle to play like a top 5 MVP candidate. Burks, Bullock, Noel to all exceed their contracts. Rose to find the fountain of youth and revitalize his career. IQ to be a hit draft pick. RJ to live up to the top 3 draft pick.

Always will need a string of things to break your way.

Vildoza becoming the 2nd coming of Steve Nash would be an unforeseen dynamic that broke the Knicks way that would instantly change everything. No this can't be depended upon, but these are the type of lucky breaks needed.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

smackeddog wrote:This thread, man! Essentially:

We have to build a roster that matches up with the best teams in the league

Plan:

1) Sign good FAs at low prices
2) Draft great player
3) Trade spare first round pick for multiple high future first rounders
4) Have 3$mil per existing player turn out to be very good

That's a dream not a plan!

That's how it usually goes honestly.

For this 41 win season we needed Randle to play like a top 5 MVP candidate. Burks, Bullock, Noel to all exceed their contracts. Rose to find the fountain of youth and revitalize his career. IQ to be a hit draft pick. RJ to live up to the top 3 draft pick.

Always will need a string of things to break your way.

Vildoza becoming the 2nd coming of Steve Nash would be an unforeseen dynamic that broke the Knicks way that would instantly change everything. No this can't be depended upon, but these are the type of lucky breaks needed.

I don't think anyone exceeded expectations but Randle.

Rose numbers were very similar in detroit, just no one pays attn to losing teams..he's a much smarter player now

Bullock had a serious set back last season with the death of his sister and was coming off an injury

Burks was super solid with GSW last yr .

Noel was just as good on OKC if not better, but who was really watching OKC last season to know that.

I think it was just ONE NBA analysis on NBA TV (prior to the start of the season)that said Thibs was going to have the biggest impact on his team than any one in the NBA.

We were just coached better and more prepared, that's why THIBS won the COY.

Now it's time to get THIBS a few better players, and we can be right up there TOP 5

Point being you still need multiple things to break your way. Like Randle & RJ missing 1 game combined while averaging the most & 15th most mins per game in the NBA.

Other combinations within the top 15

Harden-Kyrie combined 46 games missed
Van Fleet-Siakam combined 36 games missed
Westbrook-Beal combined 19 games missed
Barnes-Fox combined combined 28 games missed

Westbrook at 67 has the highest amount of games played within the top 15 not Randle & RJ. In the top 25 only Randle, RJ, Jokic, & Hield reached 70 games.

Thibs treated the regular season like the playoffs. We just outworked teams who weren't willing to bring that level of effort on a night to night basis, while our best players were able to maintain their health. One bad break for Randle/RJ missing a couple of games could have lead going from the 4th seed to playing in the play in tourney.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

smackeddog wrote:This thread, man! Essentially:

We have to build a roster that matches up with the best teams in the league

Plan:

1) Sign good FAs at low prices
2) Draft great player
3) Trade spare first round pick for multiple high future first rounders
4) Have 3$mil per existing player turn out to be very good

That's a dream not a plan!

That's how it usually goes honestly.

For this 41 win season we needed Randle to play like a top 5 MVP candidate. Burks, Bullock, Noel to all exceed their contracts. Rose to find the fountain of youth and revitalize his career. IQ to be a hit draft pick. RJ to live up to the top 3 draft pick.

Always will need a string of things to break your way.

Vildoza becoming the 2nd coming of Steve Nash would be an unforeseen dynamic that broke the Knicks way that would instantly change everything. No this can't be depended upon, but these are the type of lucky breaks needed.

I don't think anyone exceeded expectations but Randle.

Rose numbers were very similar in detroit, just no one pays attn to losing teams..he's a much smarter player now

Bullock had a serious set back last season with the death of his sister and was coming off an injury

Burks was super solid with GSW last yr .

Noel was just as good on OKC if not better, but who was really watching OKC last season to know that.

I think it was just ONE NBA analysis on NBA TV (prior to the start of the season)that said Thibs was going to have the biggest impact on his team than any one in the NBA.

We were just coached better and more prepared, that's why THIBS won the COY.

Now it's time to get THIBS a few better players, and we can be right up there TOP 5

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

smackeddog wrote:This thread, man! Essentially:

We have to build a roster that matches up with the best teams in the league

Plan:

1) Sign good FAs at low prices
2) Draft great player
3) Trade spare first round pick for multiple high future first rounders
4) Have 3$mil per existing player turn out to be very good

That's a dream not a plan!

That's how it usually goes honestly.

For this 41 win season we needed Randle to play like a top 5 MVP candidate. Burks, Bullock, Noel to all exceed their contracts. Rose to find the fountain of youth and revitalize his career. IQ to be a hit draft pick. RJ to live up to the top 3 draft pick.

Always will need a string of things to break your way.

Vildoza becoming the 2nd coming of Steve Nash would be an unforeseen dynamic that broke the Knicks way that would instantly change everything. No this can't be depended upon, but these are the type of lucky breaks needed.

I don't think anyone exceeded expectations but Randle.

Rose numbers were very similar in detroit, just no one pays attn to losing teams..he's a much smarter player now

Bullock had a serious set back last season with the death of his sister and was coming off an injury

Burks was super solid with GSW last yr .

Noel was just as good on OKC if not better, but who was really watching OKC last season to know that.

I think it was just ONE NBA analysis on NBA TV (prior to the start of the season)that said Thibs was going to have the biggest impact on his team than any one in the NBA.

We were just coached better and more prepared, that's why THIBS won the COY.

Now it's time to get THIBS a few better players, and we can be right up there TOP 5

Point being you still need multiple things to break your way. Like Randle & RJ missing 1 game combined while averaging the most & 15th most mins per game in the NBA.

Other combinations within the top 15

Harden-Kyrie combined 46 games missed
Van Fleet-Siakam combined 36 games missed
Westbrook-Beal combined 19 games missed
Barnes-Fox combined combined 28 games missed

Westbrook at 67 has the highest amount of games played within the top 15 not Randle & RJ. In the top 25 only Randle, RJ, Jokic, & Hield reached 70 games.

Thibs treated the regular season like the playoffs. We just outworked teams who weren't willing to bring that level of effort on a night to night basis, while our best players were able to maintain their health. One bad break for Randle/RJ missing a couple of games could have lead going from the 4th seed to playing in the play in tourney.

However, you have to factor in that our starting center missed over half the season and wasn't available the second half of the year. I think people minimize Mitch being out.

We had a better record without Mitch, not to say we were really bad but we improved in pace and 3 point shooting once he was out

ESOMKnicks wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
We had a better record without Mitch, not to say we were really bad but we improved in pace and 3 point shooting once he was out

Correlation does not prove causation. And cross-sectional variables should not be mixed with time-related variables. And this effect might be time-related. The team might have gotten more comfortable with Thibs's offensive schemes as the season progressed, he figured out each one's optimal role better, people settled into their roles, etc.

Bro this is way over 1248's head, you may need to dumb it down some

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
We had a better record without Mitch, not to say we were really bad but we improved in pace and 3 point shooting once he was out

Correlation does not prove causation. And cross-sectional variables should not be mixed with time-related variables. And this effect might be time-related. The team might have gotten more comfortable with Thibs's offensive schemes as the season progressed, he figured out each one's optimal role better, people settled into their roles, etc.

Bro this is way over 1248's head, you may need to dumb it down some

No you can try and twist it around to fit your agenda.

The spacing was horrible with Randlw and Mitch last season and it wasn't much better this season. It doesn't take a basketball guru to see that.

Now if we had a triple threat PG like Trae or Kyrie then you can move Randle to the perimeter, but as long has Randle is the primary ball handle, Mitch is not good options.

The only thing mitch cam do is ally oops and dunks...that's not hard to defend

Nah dude, your reasoning makes zero sense.

You know what does? Rose was added to the team just as Mitch went down and that was a major factor in what lead to the pace and 3pt shooting (as well as the other factors mentioned).

Mitch was replaced by Noel in the lineup and Noel is the same player for the most part, so the spacing really didn't change. I don't know what you think last years play has to do with this year's.

i don't think you build a team based on other teams. you build the best team you can.

with that said...what kind of team are you trying to build? this past season was an outwork you team with very little real talent. (not to mention covid/empty arenas, etc). it seems it was a massive over achievement considering how easily the hawks dispatched you.

i think you just get the best 2 way talented players possible...and if you can't get someone that can contribute on both ends, then you side with the offensive players b/c you have to be able to score to win in the playoffs.

bringing in fringe guys is a bad idea. re-signing fringe guys long term is a bad idea. don't overinflate your own players b/c many of them are fringe guys. fishmark made a post about kelly oubre - he's trash. don't add more trash.

there's another ticking clock here too imho and that's thibs. i don't think his style can work long term in today's nba without players tuning him out. for instance, i don't see how kyrie and kd would join a team with him as head coach. his style is only for short term situations.

i think your window to add top talent players is this summer and next. after that, it's either back to tanking or you're stuck with mediocre players long term b/c contracts come up and you may lose them for nothing.

there's a better than 50/50 chance that if this exact team is back next year, you're more likely in the play-in situation or out of the playoffs altogether.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:
We had a better record without Mitch, not to say we were really bad but we improved in pace and 3 point shooting once he was out

Correlation does not prove causation. And cross-sectional variables should not be mixed with time-related variables. And this effect might be time-related. The team might have gotten more comfortable with Thibs's offensive schemes as the season progressed, he figured out each one's optimal role better, people settled into their roles, etc.

Bro this is way over 1248's head, you may need to dumb it down some

No you can try and twist it around to fit your agenda.

The spacing was horrible with Randlw and Mitch last season and it wasn't much better this season. It doesn't take a basketball guru to see that.

Now if we had a triple threat PG like Trae or Kyrie then you can move Randle to the perimeter, but as long has Randle is the primary ball handle, Mitch is not good options.

The only thing mitch cam do is ally oops and dunks...that's not hard to defend

Nah dude, your reasoning makes zero sense.

You know what does? Rose was added to the team just as Mitch went down and that was a major factor in what lead to the pace and 3pt shooting (as well as the other factors mentioned).

Mitch was replaced by Noel in the lineup and Noel is the same player for the most part, so the spacing really didn't change. I don't know what you think last years play has to do with this year's.

Your right Rose is the kind of guard you need with a limited offense Center like Mitch.

You saw the impact he had on Obi( ally hoops,lobs, Pnr), But mitch starts and Rose comes off the bench. So they hardly played together

Like I have been saying from Day 3 of this season, you can't have 2 Centers who can't shoot a lick

Its like having payton being backed up by his clone

knicks1248 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

smackeddog wrote:This thread, man! Essentially:

We have to build a roster that matches up with the best teams in the league

Plan:

1) Sign good FAs at low prices
2) Draft great player
3) Trade spare first round pick for multiple high future first rounders
4) Have 3$mil per existing player turn out to be very good

That's a dream not a plan!

That's how it usually goes honestly.

For this 41 win season we needed Randle to play like a top 5 MVP candidate. Burks, Bullock, Noel to all exceed their contracts. Rose to find the fountain of youth and revitalize his career. IQ to be a hit draft pick. RJ to live up to the top 3 draft pick.

Always will need a string of things to break your way.

Vildoza becoming the 2nd coming of Steve Nash would be an unforeseen dynamic that broke the Knicks way that would instantly change everything. No this can't be depended upon, but these are the type of lucky breaks needed.

I don't think anyone exceeded expectations but Randle.

Rose numbers were very similar in detroit, just no one pays attn to losing teams..he's a much smarter player now

Bullock had a serious set back last season with the death of his sister and was coming off an injury

Burks was super solid with GSW last yr .

Noel was just as good on OKC if not better, but who was really watching OKC last season to know that.

I think it was just ONE NBA analysis on NBA TV (prior to the start of the season)that said Thibs was going to have the biggest impact on his team than any one in the NBA.

We were just coached better and more prepared, that's why THIBS won the COY.

Now it's time to get THIBS a few better players, and we can be right up there TOP 5

Point being you still need multiple things to break your way. Like Randle & RJ missing 1 game combined while averaging the most & 15th most mins per game in the NBA.

Other combinations within the top 15

Harden-Kyrie combined 46 games missed
Van Fleet-Siakam combined 36 games missed
Westbrook-Beal combined 19 games missed
Barnes-Fox combined combined 28 games missed

Westbrook at 67 has the highest amount of games played within the top 15 not Randle & RJ. In the top 25 only Randle, RJ, Jokic, & Hield reached 70 games.

Thibs treated the regular season like the playoffs. We just outworked teams who weren't willing to bring that level of effort on a night to night basis, while our best players were able to maintain their health. One bad break for Randle/RJ missing a couple of games could have lead going from the 4th seed to playing in the play in tourney.

However, you have to factor in that our starting center missed over half the season and wasn't available the second half of the year. I think people minimize Mitch being out.

We had a better record without Mitch, not to say we were really bad but we improved in pace and 3 point shooting once he was out

It must have been all those 3s Noel was hitting